UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:03 am

So right now I'm sitting at a 179 average, but made a 173 in one of the two-quarter classes. Nothing I can do about it now, but I'm wondering whether an outlier (hopefully it'll prove to be an outlier) that low can hurt at OCI or with clerkship hiring down the line.

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2014
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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:So right now I'm sitting at a 179 average, but made a 173 in one of the two-quarter classes. Nothing I can do about it now, but I'm wondering whether an outlier (hopefully it'll prove to be an outlier) that low can hurt at OCI or with clerkship hiring down the line.

I think it's the opposite actually. Carrying a good average with a low outlier paints a better picture than just consistently good but not great grades. If you are averaging 182 on the other 4 grades that show up on your transcript that will carry way more weight. Interviewers around here have said as much.

That being said, you need a story about what happened, you will probably be asked about it often, especially in CBs after they will have seen your transcript for sure.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:57 am

2014 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So right now I'm sitting at a 179 average, but made a 173 in one of the two-quarter classes. Nothing I can do about it now, but I'm wondering whether an outlier (hopefully it'll prove to be an outlier) that low can hurt at OCI or with clerkship hiring down the line.

I think it's the opposite actually. Carrying a good average with a low outlier paints a better picture than just consistently good but not great grades. If you are averaging 182 on the other 4 grades that show up on your transcript that will carry way more weight. Interviewers around here have said as much.

That being said, you need a story about what happened, you will probably be asked about it often, especially in CBs after they will have seen your transcript for sure.


That's reassuring; thanks.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby RodneyRuxin » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:55 pm

I had an outlier grade (thanks Helmholz), pm me for info

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:08 pm

Dropped below 179 after WQ. Any hope of LR grade-on probably out now I guess?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby WheninLaw » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Dropped below 179 after WQ. Any hope of LR grade-on probably out now I guess?


You guys are serious doom and gloom. 1L year is 40 credits, spring is 20 of them (considering the brief as 2). So yes, you could still make LR. I graded on with a grade so far below median you would laugh if you saw it.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:Dropped below 179 after WQ. Any hope of LR grade-on probably out now I guess?

No reason you GPA is precluded from changing by the .5ish needed to grade on. Odds are obviously not in your favor, but you have a fine chance. I know people whose GPAs changed by more in the same time frame.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:50 pm

As of right now, I'll be summering at a legal non-profit. I'm a little concerned because I don't think there will be a whole lot of research and writing involved. I will probably be drafting a lot of court documents, but nothing like I would do if I were working for a judge. Should I be worried about this, and try to find something else? I guess it's probably too late.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:As of right now, I'll be summering at a legal non-profit. I'm a little concerned because I don't think there will be a whole lot of research and writing involved. I will probably be drafting a lot of court documents, but nothing like I would do if I were working for a judge. Should I be worried about this, and try to find something else? I guess it's probably too late.

Absolutely not, everyone gets pretty much the same level of experience (not much). You need to do what you can to end the summer with 2 to 3 anecdotes about things you did and how they built your skill base and/or led to your burning desire to do big law. Even if it feels like something totally different than you will do in practice and even if it is tenuously legal at best, it's all about distilling your experience into persuasive talking points which you can and should be able to do with anything, especially a summer's worth of any work.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:09 pm

Newly minted 2Ls, CONGRATS ON BEING DONE!!!!!!

Once you're done drinking off the hell that is SQ, we are here to answer questions about firms, OCI, mass mailing, bidlists, law review, and anything else you choose to direct your neuroticism at (now that grades are out of the way :D :D )

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Newly minted 2Ls, CONGRATS ON BEING DONE!!!!!!

Once you're done drinking off the hell that is SQ, we are here to answer questions about firms, OCI, mass mailing, bidlists, law review, and anything else you choose to direct your neuroticism at (now that grades are out of the way :D :D )

Thank you. I'm so happy to be done.

Some questions:

1) 2L is easier than 1L. Right? It's not just a myth?

2) Is law review really worth it? I don't really care about prestige, I just want a market paying job in my target (secondary) market. Slightly above 180 average (no idea where I'll be after this quarter though-wish I could wait until after I know to decide...)

3) Is there anything I should be doing now, besides updating resume/drafting cover letters/contacting folks at the firms I'm interested in for informational interviews?

I'm sure I'll have more, but these are my first thoughts.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Newly minted 2Ls, CONGRATS ON BEING DONE!!!!!!

Once you're done drinking off the hell that is SQ, we are here to answer questions about firms, OCI, mass mailing, bidlists, law review, and anything else you choose to direct your neuroticism at (now that grades are out of the way :D :D )

Thank you. I'm so happy to be done.

Some questions:

1) 2L is easier than 1L. Right? It's not just a myth?

2) Is law review really worth it? I don't really care about prestige, I just want a market paying job in my target (secondary) market. Slightly above 180 average (no idea where I'll be after this quarter though-wish I could wait until after I know to decide...)

3) Is there anything I should be doing now, besides updating resume/drafting cover letters/contacting folks at the firms I'm interested in for informational interviews?

I'm sure I'll have more, but these are my first thoughts.


I know you're probably looking for individual advice, but I want others to benefit from this too--so I'll just include answers for your situation in my broad answers.

1) This question really depends on whether or not you do law review (more on this later). Some on LR said that 2L was worse (lol) but almost everyone not on LR thought 2L was a breeze compared to 1L. I loved 2L and I took 12 credits a quarter. Perhaps most importantly, you only have to take the classes you're interested in (unless you're on the clerkship train--then you're forced to take the LR gunner classes that have half of e-board in them...)--this makes class so much more interesting and it's easier to study when you care about what you're learning (even better if you will use it in your career). Seminar grades are also curved to a 178/9 so keeping your GPA is easier (you should take 1 seminar a quarter to keep your schedule from being overbearing). There are tons of seminars that are super informative and don't require much work (check out Erin Casey's seminars).

2) This question really depends on your preferences and where you want a job. If you want a competitive AUSA district, you should pursue law review so you can get a clerkship, etc. To make the decision for LR, you have to know yourself. No, it's not necessary to get a job. Plenty of people (including myself) didn't do LR and did just fine. Are you a good interviewer? Do you have high expectations for firm jobs (W&C, Munger, etc.) or are you happy with a V10 that specializes in the type of work you want to go into (STB, for example)? With great grades, it can sometimes be a sign of laziness if you're not on LR. However, you can usually spin some story about how you want to be a student director for the corporate lab so you want to be able to really focus on that. It's not going to kill you not to, but when your future is a black box, it's hard to turn down something that could save your entire future. Lit/Corp impacts this too. If you're not into prestige, LR can get kind of stuffy (just my opinion, relax LR people). Keep in mind that wanting a secondary market doesn't necessarily mean jobs are easier. There are less jobs and tons of people at the top of their regional schools competing with you--and they all have LR. It's no walk in the park just because you went here.

3) The write-on if you're interested. Start looking around TLS to get a sense of the cultures at each firm. Read the TLS articles on each firm (They generally have some comments about culture, etc.) Read the fourth post in this thread and use that for what you call "informational interviews." Basically--just try to learn as much about every firm as possible. Try to meet with 1 person at every firm you're interested in and ask the questions you're genuinely interested in (whether that's work/life balance, office culture (fratty/nerdy), assignment system, why they worked there, etc--make it something you have genuine interest in). Gauge the responses from each firm and use those to compare. Firms have personalities--find the ones your personality matches up with and rule out the ones where it doesn't. Other than that, enjoy your well-deserved time off. 1L is an intense ride, but you made it. If you're going for a smaller market--start contacting your network there and update them on your life, your job for the summer, etc. Connections matter a LOT in secondary markets--make sure you're tilling the farm.

Tried to answer these the best I could but I'm sure there's some stuff missing. If you have any specific questions, happy to help with those.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 20141023 » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:40 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:48 am

kappycaft1 wrote:Wait TLS has articles about each firm??


http://www.top-law-schools.com/law-stud ... icles.html

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 20141023 » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:54 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:02 am

kappycaft1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:Wait TLS has articles about each firm??


http://www.top-law-schools.com/law-stud ... icles.html

That... Is pretty helpful.


They are a bit over-focused on offer rates and how the firm handled the recession, but I guess that's just a product of being written in 2010/2011. Most of the culture stuff is still relevant - I used it as another source to investigate firms. There are few articles on the less grade-selective firms, but I think that's just a product of it being on TLS.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby skers » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:10 am

This is super helpful as well http://www.chambers-associate.com/Search/FirmList. Absolutely reach out to people on the Who Worked Where list when it comes out too.

You'll all have plenty of time to do research and over stress about things. Just enjoy your summers.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Newly minted 2Ls, CONGRATS ON BEING DONE!!!!!!

Once you're done drinking off the hell that is SQ, we are here to answer questions about firms, OCI, mass mailing, bidlists, law review, and anything else you choose to direct your neuroticism at (now that grades are out of the way :D :D )

Thank you. I'm so happy to be done.

Some questions:

1) 2L is easier than 1L. Right? It's not just a myth?

2) Is law review really worth it? I don't really care about prestige, I just want a market paying job in my target (secondary) market. Slightly above 180 average (no idea where I'll be after this quarter though-wish I could wait until after I know to decide...)

3) Is there anything I should be doing now, besides updating resume/drafting cover letters/contacting folks at the firms I'm interested in for informational interviews?

I'm sure I'll have more, but these are my first thoughts.


1) 2L is what you make of it. If you want to be really busy, you can. If you to take classes twice a week and check out, you can do that too. Do whatever makes you happiest.

2) Almost always yes. You sound like one of the (very) few people it might not make sense for. Reasons to do LR:

-Makes OCI a breeze
-Clerkships
-Follows you forever
-Spend time with smart people that will be really successful
-Faculty Connections
-(Somewhat) Improves your writing

If you feel confident in getting the job from your secondary market, and don't care about clerkships, then it might not be worth doing.

3) If you're not doing the writing competition, my advice is do...nothing. For a week, maybe two. Go home from work and enjoy yourself. Once you feel better, yeah, do those things. Hitting people up on the WWW list is a good idea.

edit: didn't mean to anon, this is WhenInLaw

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:36 am

How well do the LRW raw scores correlate with the scaled grades? Say you are at one of the 25th percentiles

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How well do the LRW raw scores correlate with the scaled grades? Say you are at one of the 25th percentiles


I'm wondering this too. Do LRW grades tend to have a wide or narrow curve?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How well do the LRW raw scores correlate with the scaled grades? Say you are at one of the 25th percentiles
More specific question about LRW:

What if our winter memo was barely above median, but our spring brief was several points above median? On a scale of 0~100, the highest scoring brief in my section was 92; the lowest scoring was a 68; the median was an 83; and I got an 88. Am I doomed for a 178, or how high above the median do you have to be on an LRW assignment to break out of the norm?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby WheninLaw » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How well do the LRW raw scores correlate with the scaled grades? Say you are at one of the 25th percentiles


I'm wondering this too. Do LRW grades tend to have a wide or narrow curve?


Narrow in the middle, wide at the top. The myth going in was there everyone got median. Untrue. Once you started to climb into top 30-40% range, the points went up and up. I had the 6th highest raw score and ended up with a 182. A friend that was top-third received a 180.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby WheninLaw » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How well do the LRW raw scores correlate with the scaled grades? Say you are at one of the 25th percentiles
More specific question about LRW:

What if our winter memo was barely above median, but our spring brief was several points above median? On a scale of 0~100, the highest scoring brief in my section was 92; the lowest scoring was a 68; the median was an 83; and I got an 88. Am I doomed for a 178, or how high above the median do you have to be on an LRW assignment to break out of the norm?


This depends on how much weight your bigelow allocates to each half. Ours did 40/60. He also provided the standard deviation so you calculate exactly where you were given your score. Sounds like you are top 25% for the brief. Assuming a little above median for the memo and I'd venture you'll hit 180.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:00 pm

WheninLaw wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How well do the LRW raw scores correlate with the scaled grades? Say you are at one of the 25th percentiles


I'm wondering this too. Do LRW grades tend to have a wide or narrow curve?


Narrow in the middle, wide at the top. The myth going in was there everyone got median. Untrue. Once you started to climb into top 30-40% range, the points went up and up. I had the 6th highest raw score and ended up with a 182. A friend that was top-third received a 180.


Wide at the bottom too then? Should I brace for a 175? 25th percentile

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
WheninLaw wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How well do the LRW raw scores correlate with the scaled grades? Say you are at one of the 25th percentiles


I'm wondering this too. Do LRW grades tend to have a wide or narrow curve?


Narrow in the middle, wide at the top. The myth going in was there everyone got median. Untrue. Once you started to climb into top 30-40% range, the points went up and up. I had the 6th highest raw score and ended up with a 182. A friend that was top-third received a 180.


Wide at the bottom too then? Should I brace for a 175? 25th percentile


Anecdotal obviously, but my bigelow section 1L year (class of 2015er here) had a range of 176-182. I think this is generally how bigelow worked: lots of room up to to differentiate the winners, no real punishment for below 178ers.




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