UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:49 pm

2014 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm looking at the firm-wise list and was wondering which firms are not as picky about grades when it comes to choosing their summer associates come OCI this summer. I'd like to target firms that I realistically stand a chance at, ones that recruit students at or below median or aren't particularly concerned with grades, but rather work experience and someone with strong interpersonal skills. A little background about myself, if it helps any, I am from the mid-west and am open to working nearly anywhere with an exception being New York, wife's orders. Thanks in advance for any info!

DC is going to be pretty much a no-go, Texas will be a no-go without ties, SF is competitive and tech-driven leaving you with Chicago or LA.

In Chicago you shouldn't rule out anywhere, but your chances are not great at K&E, Sidley or probably Jenner, but it's possible. Those represent three of the largest summer classes here, so your odds go down considerably and you probably can't be picky, but it is what it is.

In LA don't even bother with Irell, Munger or probably Gibson but the rest are probably in play, but you are going to have to sell why Cali better than because I like the weather.

You really should sit down with your wife and discuss debt+unemployment vs New York and see how strong her preferences are. It can be a short term move but failing to get your first job at OCI is a career limiting thing.


SV isn't super grade conscious and isn't as ties conscious as SF, provided you can sell an interest in startup work/IP. That said, you should definitely bid NY.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:51 pm

Very open ended, but could anyone talk about some of the lesser-known/boutique firms that come to firmwise? I'm looking through the list and have only heard of about 1/3-1/2 of them. The full list, in case it's different from last year:

Ahmad, Zavitsanos, Anaipakos, Alavi & Mensing
Allen & Overy
Arnold & Porter
Baker Botts
Baker & McKenzie
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft
Chapman and Cutler
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton
Covington & Burling
Cravath, Swaine & Moore
Crowell & Moring
Davis Polk & Wardwell
Debevoise & Plimpton
DLA Piper
Drinker Biddle & Reath
Edwards Wildman Palmer
Faegre Baker Daniels
Fenwick & West
Foley & Lardner
Fried Frank
Goodwin Procter
Greenberg Traurig
Grippo & Elden
Irell & Manella
Jenner & Block
Jones Day
K&L Gates
Katten Muchin Rosenman
Kirkland & Ellis
Knobbe Martens (Technical Degree Preferred)
Latham & Watkins
Mayer Brown
McDermott Will & Emery
Milbank
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius
Morrison & Foerster
Munger, Tolles & Olson
Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe
Paul Hastings
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison
Perkins Coie
Pircher, Nichols & Meeks
Polsinelli
Ropes & Gray
Schiff Hardin
Sheppard Mullin
Sidley Austin
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
Skadden, Arps
Sullivan & Cromwell
Vedder Price
Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz
White & Case
Wilmer Hale
Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
Winston & Strawn

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Very open ended, but could anyone talk about some of the lesser-known/boutique firms that come to firmwise? I'm looking through the list and have only heard of about 1/3-1/2 of them. The full list, in case it's different from last year:

Ahmad, Zavitsanos, Anaipakos, Alavi & Mensing
Allen & Overy
Arnold & Porter
Baker Botts
Baker & McKenzie
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft
Chapman and Cutler
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton
Covington & Burling
Cravath, Swaine & Moore
Crowell & Moring
Davis Polk & Wardwell
Debevoise & Plimpton
DLA Piper
Drinker Biddle & Reath
Edwards Wildman Palmer
Faegre Baker Daniels
Fenwick & West
Foley & Lardner
Fried Frank
Goodwin Procter
Greenberg Traurig
Grippo & Elden
Irell & Manella
Jenner & Block
Jones Day
K&L Gates
Katten Muchin Rosenman
Kirkland & Ellis
Knobbe Martens (Technical Degree Preferred)
Latham & Watkins
Mayer Brown
McDermott Will & Emery
Milbank
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius
Morrison & Foerster
Munger, Tolles & Olson
Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe
Paul Hastings
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison
Perkins Coie
Pircher, Nichols & Meeks
Polsinelli
Ropes & Gray
Schiff Hardin
Sheppard Mullin
Sidley Austin
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
Skadden, Arps
Sullivan & Cromwell
Vedder Price
Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz
White & Case
Wilmer Hale
Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
Winston & Strawn


What would you like to know specifically/care to narrow it down a bit?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:00 pm

If you edit the list down to firms you haven't heard of I'll see what I can do but I'd rather not summarize all of them.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Very open ended, but could anyone talk about some of the lesser-known/boutique firms that come to firmwise? I'm looking through the list and have only heard of about 1/3-1/2 of them. The full list, in case it's different from last year:

Ahmad, Zavitsanos, Anaipakos, Alavi & Mensing
Allen & Overy
Arnold & Porter
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft
Chapman and Cutler
Covington & Burling
Crowell & Moring
Drinker Biddle & Reath
Edwards Wildman Palmer
Faegre Baker Daniels
Fenwick & West
Foley & Lardner
Goodwin Procter
Greenberg Traurig
Katten Muchin Rosenman
Milbank
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius
Morrison & Foerster
Pircher, Nichols & Meeks
Polsinelli
Sheppard Mullin
Vedder Price
Wilmer Hale
Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
Winston & Strawn


What would you like to know specifically/care to narrow it down a bit?


Sure - sorry about that. These are just the ones I don't think I've ever heard of before. Looking to target CA/NY, probably with a lit focus, good grades so far but hesitant to extrapolate from elements/civ to assume that'll last the rest of 1L.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Very open ended, but could anyone talk about some of the lesser-known/boutique firms that come to firmwise? I'm looking through the list and have only heard of about 1/3-1/2 of them. The full list, in case it's different from last year:

Ahmad, Zavitsanos, Anaipakos, Alavi & Mensing
Allen & Overy
Arnold & Porter
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft
Chapman and Cutler
Covington & Burling
Crowell & Moring
Drinker Biddle & Reath
Edwards Wildman Palmer
Faegre Baker Daniels
Fenwick & West
Foley & Lardner
Goodwin Procter
Greenberg Traurig
Katten Muchin Rosenman
Milbank
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius
Morrison & Foerster
Pircher, Nichols & Meeks
Polsinelli
Sheppard Mullin
Vedder Price
Wilmer Hale
Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
Winston & Strawn


What would you like to know specifically/care to narrow it down a bit?


Sure - sorry about that. These are just the ones I don't think I've ever heard of before. Looking to target CA/NY, probably with a lit focus, good grades so far but hesitant to extrapolate from elements/civ to assume that'll last the rest of 1L.


I can speak best to CA, from the firms you listed:

Arnold & Porter - their SF office was formerly an independent firm, Howard Rice, that was a litigation-focused firm with a good rep. Not really sure if the office essentially still feels like Howard Rice or if its been more integrated into Arnold & Porter, but that's something you could ask about.
Covington - DC-based, but has SF, Silicon Valley (SV), and San Diego offices with good IP lit practices.
Fenwick - native SV firm that is strongest with tech-focused corporate work (does a lot of IPOs, reps a lot of emerging companies, reps Facebook, etc.), but has a lit practice also, with a strong suit in IP lit. Has a pretty good reputation in terms of culture.
Goodwin Procter - Boston-based, but its SV office is decent in tech-focused corporate work, particularly emerging companies/VC.
Morrison & Foerster (MoFo) - SF-based firm, strong in lit generally, and particularly in IP lit. Had a reputation for being sort of a quirky place with a good culture, but apparently its been becoming more like a NY firm in recent years. Also has an LA office.
Wilmer Hale - DC-based firm, has a decent IP lit practice in SV, repped Apple in the smartphone wars. There were rumors about layoffs in the IP lit group in SV last year though (http://abovethelaw.com/2013/07/nationwi ... le-detail/).
Wilson Sonsini - the giant in SV, great in tech-focused corporate work (does more large public company work than Fenwick), but also has a decent lit practice, particularly IP and securities. Doesn't have the best reputation in terms of being a good place to work, but has a great brand name in SV if you ever wanted to move in-house. Used to be known for its "pod" model of internal structure, but is experimenting with a more open system.

Some of those other firms you listed have CA offices, but none are particularly noteworthy.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:58 pm

Added thoughts for them all, this isn't cutting edge shit here but I hope it helps. I did no googling so you should/could corroborate or supplement this but the research is your job :P

Ahmad, Zavitsanos, Anaipakos, Alavi & Mensing - Houston Lit Boutique - Hired several 1Ls last year, not sure how many go back but they seemed to enjoy it from what I heard.
Allen & Overy - London based full service firm, NY, London and maybe DC offices showed up to OCI
Arnold & Porter - General full service east coast firm, can't remember which offices showed up to OCI
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft - Also London based full service firm, NY office came to OCI
Chapman and Cutler - Chicago office interviewed (Chicago based i think?), somewhat lower in "prestige" but has a summer program
Covington & Burling - Somewhat grade conscious DC centric firm, might have interviewed for NY office too. They are big on appellate lit.
Crowell & Moring - DC office showed up to OCI, know nothing else
Drinker Biddle & Reath - Chicago based I think, they come to OCI but I don't know anything. I think they are full service.
Edwards Wildman Palmer - Wat
Faegre Baker Daniels - Either Minneapolis or Indianapolis based, I forget
Fenwick & West - Cali firm (SV I think?). I assume they do Cali type work, i.e. IP, startups, patents, etc
Foley & Lardner - Full service firm w/ a Chicago office, not sure where else they are. They gave out starbucks giftcards last year so worth stopping by.
Goodwin Procter - Boston based firm I believe, full service
Greenberg Traurig - I want to say midwest based, I know they have a huge St. Louis office. Made ATL for layoffs recently.
Katten Muchin Rosenman - Chicago firm, it's probably in the 2nd tier below K&E/Sidley/Jenner alongside w/ Schiff, Mayer Brown, etc.
Milbank - NY firm, big on niche bankruptcy stuff and project finance. Full service though. I believe they make you choose your permanent practice area at the end of the summer but don't quote me on that.
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius - I should know who this is but I don't whoops. I think Chicago.
Morrison & Foerster - California based I believe but interviewed for several offices at OCI including NYC.
Pircher, Nichols & Meeks - Chicago real estate boutique w/ LA office, hires a couple UChi and NU SAs every year for like 4 week summers after their other firm summer ends.
Polsinelli - Midwest full service firm but the Chicago office only does IP I think. They interviewed for other places too at OCI.
Sheppard Mullin - Well known firm in California, also interviewed for NYC office. Does a lot of entertainment work I think.
Vedder Price - Huge Chicago firm in terms of headcount but less prestigious for some reason. Full service I think.
Wilmer Hale - Interviewed at OCI for NYC and DC offices, full service good firm.
Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati - Also should know who this is, I think they interviewed for Cali but I don't remember or know anything.
Winston & Strawn - Full service Chicago firm, has a somewhat large summer class but no offered like half of their class a few years back (including a couple TLSers I believe) so they have a bad rep around here.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:13 pm

Thanks so much, both of you! Really really helpful. I'll definitely do my own research as well (and mostly have for the bigger name firms) but sifting through the marketing bs doesn't always get you anything. Appreciate the on-the-ground take.

2014 wrote:Winston & Strawn - Full service Chicago firm, has a somewhat large summer class but no offered like half of their class a few years back (including a couple TLSers I believe) so they have a bad rep around here.


Uh-oh. Any others with a similar rep to be aware of? Other than Latham.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:15 pm

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:23 pm

A TLS thread popped up a couple years ago claiming W&C stealth laid off some junior associates or basically Lathamed them but less transparently. I don't know if it was corroborated or not, but I don't think they have made the news for anything bad before or since.

Their DC office showed up to OCI, NY didn't, but I think was receptive to mass mail. Their class breakdown for this coming summer showed up in the "summer classes" thread and it looks like we have a 2L going to the NYC office this summer.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:14 am

2014 wrote:Added thoughts for them all, this isn't cutting edge shit here but I hope it helps. I did no googling so you should/could corroborate or supplement this but the research is your job :P

Ahmad, Zavitsanos, Anaipakos, Alavi & Mensing - Houston Lit Boutique - Hired several 1Ls last year, not sure how many go back but they seemed to enjoy it from what I heard.
Allen & Overy - London based full service firm, NY, London and maybe DC offices showed up to OCI
Arnold & Porter - General full service east coast firm, can't remember which offices showed up to OCI
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft - Also London based full service firm, NY office came to OCI
Chapman and Cutler - Chicago office interviewed (Chicago based i think?), somewhat lower in "prestige" but has a summer program
Covington & Burling - Somewhat grade conscious DC centric firm, might have interviewed for NY office too. They are big on appellate lit.
Crowell & Moring - DC office showed up to OCI, know nothing else
Drinker Biddle & Reath - Chicago based I think, they come to OCI but I don't know anything. I think they are full service.
Edwards Wildman Palmer - Wat
Faegre Baker Daniels - Either Minneapolis or Indianapolis based, I forget
Fenwick & West - Cali firm (SV I think?). I assume they do Cali type work, i.e. IP, startups, patents, etc
Foley & Lardner - Full service firm w/ a Chicago office, not sure where else they are. They gave out starbucks giftcards last year so worth stopping by.
Goodwin Procter - Boston based firm I believe, full service
Greenberg Traurig - I want to say midwest based, I know they have a huge St. Louis office. Made ATL for layoffs recently.
Katten Muchin Rosenman - Chicago firm, it's probably in the 2nd tier below K&E/Sidley/Jenner alongside w/ Schiff, Mayer Brown, etc.
Milbank - NY firm, big on niche bankruptcy stuff and project finance. Full service though. I believe they make you choose your permanent practice area at the end of the summer but don't quote me on that.
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius - I should know who this is but I don't whoops. I think Chicago.
Morrison & Foerster - California based I believe but interviewed for several offices at OCI including NYC.
Pircher, Nichols & Meeks - Chicago real estate boutique w/ LA office, hires a couple UChi and NU SAs every year for like 4 week summers after their other firm summer ends.
Polsinelli - Midwest full service firm but the Chicago office only does IP I think. They interviewed for other places too at OCI.
Sheppard Mullin - Well known firm in California, also interviewed for NYC office. Does a lot of entertainment work I think.
Vedder Price - Huge Chicago firm in terms of headcount but less prestigious for some reason. Full service I think.
Wilmer Hale - Interviewed at OCI for NYC and DC offices, full service good firm.
Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati - Also should know who this is, I think they interviewed for Cali but I don't remember or know anything.
Winston & Strawn - Full service Chicago firm, has a somewhat large summer class but no offered like half of their class a few years back (including a couple TLSers I believe) so they have a bad rep around here.



I appreciate 2014's effort here (very nice of you to put the time in), but s/he is missing a lot.

To name a few -- Wilson Sonsini is a top SV firm (along with Fenwick/Cooley/Gunderson) and does some of the best deals in the Valley (though Fenwick has gotten lots of press for repping facebook). Note that you are assigned a single partner to work with so many dislike it.

Morgan Lewis is a Philly firm with Chicago offices.

Arnold and Porter was a traditional DC shop but acquired a large-ish SF firm (Howard Rice) in 2011 so now has a meaningful SF presence. But the culture will of course vary across offices because of that.

WilmerHale is a product of a merger (2004) between a DC and Boston firm -- thus, the firm is one of the Boston "big three" (Ropes, Wilmer, Goodwin) as well as a top DC shop.

My broader point, though, is that you shouldn't depend on any single person (especially a 2L) for advice about firms. I was successful at OCI (20+ callbacks) for a single reason, and it wasn't grades: I read Chambers Associate and Chambers Partners religiously. That's how I knew that Vedder has a great aircraft finance practice and that Cadwalader was strong in structured finance. There's no reason any practicing lawyer, 2L, or 3L would know what each firm is strong in (most don't know outside their geographic or practice area of interest), so please (PLEASE!) read Chambers for accurate information. It's the best way to distinguish yourself. If you can walk into firmwise and say, "Hi firm X, I heard you are really strong in X practice area. Can you tell me more about that?" someone might remember you.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:There's no reason any practicing lawyer, 2L, or 3L would know what each firm is strong in (most don't know outside their geographic or practice area of interest), so please (PLEASE!) read Chambers for accurate information. It's the best way to distinguish yourself. If you can walk into firmwise and say, "Hi firm X, I heard you are really strong in X practice area. Can you tell me more about that?" someone might remember you.


Good advice, but be careful not to rely on Chambers too heavily. Read the website and see how the firm portrays its practices. Just because a firm doesn't make the rankings for say general litigation, doesn't mean that they don't have a large litigation practice. Conversely a ranking in something that is more "niche" might not mean that it is somehow their primary practice area, it only means that they are prominent in that area of law (e.g. aircraft finance).

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
My broader point, though, is that you shouldn't depend on any single person (especially a 2L) for advice about firms. I was successful at OCI (20+ callbacks) for a single reason, and it wasn't grades: I read Chambers Associate and Chambers Partners religiously. That's how I knew that Vedder has a great aircraft finance practice and that Cadwalader was strong in structured finance. There's no reason any practicing lawyer, 2L, or 3L would know what each firm is strong in (most don't know outside their geographic or practice area of interest), so please (PLEASE!) read Chambers for accurate information. It's the best way to distinguish yourself. If you can walk into firmwise and say, "Hi firm X, I heard you are really strong in X practice area. Can you tell me more about that?" someone might remember you.


It sounds like you bid WAY too conservatively with 20+ callbacks (also with the mention of Vedder and Cadwalader). If you didn't, and you had the callbacks at better firms, why didn't you cancel screener interviews for your classmates? I had a few callbacks going into week two and I cut out firms I didn't want and most of them filled up--1Ls: don't make this a pissing contest--if you have 15 (or even above 7) callbacks, start cancelling screeners you have no interest in. There's no reason you should have 20+ callbacks... If you tell this to people in order to brag they will just think you're an asshole for not cancelling some (because you're certainly not going to go on over 20 callbacks--that would take almost a full month if you had one every business day). We're all on the same team here. If you cancel a screener you don't want--that could be someone else's only offer.

Additionally, knowing a firm is strong in a practice area from chambers isn't enough--everyone knows this (if they don't, they did 0 research) and it's hardly going to distinguish you. The real info comes from having conversations with attorneys and coming up with something about the firm that they wouldn't expect you to know--like, for example, how PW has an internal database of files and (unlike some firms) people actually put their work in there to share with other people at the firm. This is the kind of stuff that wows an interviewer, not knowing they're strong in a practice area..

Finally, a piece of advice for 1Ls:
For firmwise, don't be the guy who waits 20 minutes in line for Kirkland--everyone wants Chicago firms, yes--but your time is better spent at firms who won't have receptions where you can meet people and get business cards. Also, people are busy and if there's a line--find something you're interested in that you talk about, say something like "I can see my classmates are waiting but I'd love to hear more about X" and get a business card to set up lunch or a phone call--a 1 on 1 conversation is a MUCH better way to make someone remember you.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:51 pm

Also 1Ls note that some of these attorneys remember you from firmwise (or remember that you didn't show up). Especially if an attorney looks like no one is stopping by their booth, there is a lot to be gained by being one of the few to do so. They will remember you and are more than likely involved with fall recruiting in some way. None of the K&E people will remember you because they talk to 100 students, but the Fried Frank people might (or whatever other firm).

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:03 am

Any 1L I see in the library tomorrow is doing it wrong.

Get down there and hustle.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 20141023 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:02 am

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:24 am

kappycaft1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any 1L I see in the library tomorrow is doing it wrong.

Get down there and hustle.
I'm just glad I went to the OCS info session about firm-wise... I got useful tips like "don't stand next to the food table the entire time" and "don't take notes when someone is talking to you." Thanks to that helpful advice, I feel really prepared for tomorrow.


To be fair, that kind of stuff happens often. It is crazy how little social skills (especially the K-JDs) people tend to have.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 20141023 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:45 am

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:54 pm

So I'm trying to make sense of some odd information I got at firmwise: I'm the anon from a couple pages back who was asking about CA lit firms, so one of the firms I talked to last night was Irell & Manella. At two different points in the conversation, the Irell guy dropped these two pieces of information:

- The firm has 170 attorneys (knew this one)
- They hire 20-25 SAs a year (had no idea)

Am I wrong to take this as a huge red flag? The fact that they're pretty low-leverage and leanly staffed is really appealing to me, but not if that's because juniors are dropping like flies (or SAs are getting no-offered).

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Nelson » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So I'm trying to make sense of some odd information I got at firmwise: I'm the anon from a couple pages back who was asking about CA lit firms, so one of the firms I talked to last night was Irell & Manella. At two different points in the conversation, the Irell guy dropped these two pieces of information:

- The firm has 170 attorneys (knew this one)
- They hire 20-25 SAs a year (had no idea)

Am I wrong to take this as a huge red flag? The fact that they're pretty low-leverage and leanly staffed is really appealing to me, but not if that's because juniors are dropping like flies (or SAs are getting no-offered).

Not a UChi student but this is really common among the lit firms that have a de facto requirement of clerkships and hire mostly out of their summer class because their yield is unpredictable (because people take 1-3 years off to clerk) and low (since they lose people to boutiques and gov). That level of a firm has a pretty ironclad reputation for 100% offer rates, it's just most of their summers have other great options available.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:01 pm

Nelson wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So I'm trying to make sense of some odd information I got at firmwise: I'm the anon from a couple pages back who was asking about CA lit firms, so one of the firms I talked to last night was Irell & Manella. At two different points in the conversation, the Irell guy dropped these two pieces of information:

- The firm has 170 attorneys (knew this one)
- They hire 20-25 SAs a year (had no idea)

Am I wrong to take this as a huge red flag? The fact that they're pretty low-leverage and leanly staffed is really appealing to me, but not if that's because juniors are dropping like flies (or SAs are getting no-offered).

Not a UChi student but this is really common among the lit firms that have a de facto requirement of clerkships and hire mostly out of their summer class because their yield is unpredictable (because people take 1-3 years off to clerk) and low (since they lose people to boutiques and gov). That level of a firm has a pretty ironclad reputation for 100% offer rates, it's just most of their summers have other great options available.


Perfect - thanks for clarifying.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Since we're on the topic, and because I noticed White & Case on the Firm-Wise list, I have a quick question (and I am pretty much outing myself by asking this, but I still want to stay anon just in case). I was talking with OCS about them recently, and it seems like something happened between them and UChicago a while back (maybe they no-offered a lot of our students or something?). In a recent email, OCS mentioned the following:
UChicago OCS wrote:White & Case doesn’t even recruit here anymore, save for the DC office. They could never compete with other NYC firms or national firms – no one would accept an offer there.

Is there something about this firm that I should know that I don't?


Not really, but it doesn't really matter for you because it seems almost impossible to get a callback there (I had a contact there a few years back and they talked to recruiting and recommended they bring me in for a callback, and I didn't even get a ding).

They don't seem to be anything special from what I gathered from my contact, and attorneys there seemed willing to say pretty negative things about their experience--so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

There are other firms like Cahill that don't come to OCI that still recruit from our school.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So I'm trying to make sense of some odd information I got at firmwise: I'm the anon from a couple pages back who was asking about CA lit firms, so one of the firms I talked to last night was Irell & Manella. At two different points in the conversation, the Irell guy dropped these two pieces of information:

- The firm has 170 attorneys (knew this one)
- They hire 20-25 SAs a year (had no idea)

Am I wrong to take this as a huge red flag? The fact that they're pretty low-leverage and leanly staffed is really appealing to me, but not if that's because juniors are dropping like flies (or SAs are getting no-offered).


I'm a 2L that is working at Irell this summer.

It is not the latter, Irell routinely offers 100% of its SAs, which is the main reason I choose them over Munger. You really have to try in order to get no-offered.

It is very hard to make partner there, not unlike most firms. However, it is not the case that associates stay until year 7 and then get shown the door. Every associate I have spoken to (current and former) have said that starting almost immediately, headhunters target the associates very heavily. The exit options are excellent, and most associates will leave after year 4-5. It would be better if partner prospects were better, but it would come at the expense of leverage.

edit: One of the previous posters is also right to point out that not everyone goes back after clerkships. Every 2L working there this summer is doing at least 1 year of clerking, most 2.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:25 pm

Am I wrong in thinking you need LR level grades to work at Irell or MTO?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Am I wrong in thinking you need LR level grades to work at Irell or MTO?


Assuming a white male, I'd say you want a minimum of 179.5 to have a shot at an Irell CB, and 180 for MTO. LR helps with Irell and is mandatory for MTO. Moreover, once you have the CB at Irell, you can generally expect the offer. Not the case at MTO (since the entire firm needs to vote).




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