10th Year Associate Forum
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10th Year Associate
Met a guy recently who is an attorney at a NY Big Law firm. Told me he has been with the firm for 10 years. I just assumed he was a partner. Looked at his profile on the firms website and he is listed as an associate. I know people that stay longer than 8-years and don't make partner are promoted to Of Counsel or Counsel but I didn't know you could just continue at the associate level for that long. is this common? Kinda goes against the up & out reputation of Big Law.
- blank403
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Re: 10th Year Associate
Edited: Okay, maybe my original post was overly harsh.
Law firms are run by real people who make real life decisions, and things are not as black and white as you are assuming. There are a ton of different possible explanations for this, and none of them are inconsistent with up or out.
E.g., firms don't all have the same titles for their employees, some employees might have uncommon background circumstances which make associate a more appropriate title, not every single employee is made partner/of counsel or fired at year 8, etc.
Law firms are run by real people who make real life decisions, and things are not as black and white as you are assuming. There are a ton of different possible explanations for this, and none of them are inconsistent with up or out.
E.g., firms don't all have the same titles for their employees, some employees might have uncommon background circumstances which make associate a more appropriate title, not every single employee is made partner/of counsel or fired at year 8, etc.
Last edited by blank403 on Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- kwais
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Re: 10th Year Associate
Poster above is mad.
I knew a guy like that at the firm I summered at. I had the same curiosity. I got the impression that he really lacked the sort of business development skills you need for partner but was good at a specific skill and was therefore valuable to the firm. Maybe the reason not to make them Of Counsel is to avoid the conversation that basically says, we've decided you won't make partner. It could be that neither the firm nor the associate wants to rock the boat because everyone is happy with the status quo.
I knew a guy like that at the firm I summered at. I had the same curiosity. I got the impression that he really lacked the sort of business development skills you need for partner but was good at a specific skill and was therefore valuable to the firm. Maybe the reason not to make them Of Counsel is to avoid the conversation that basically says, we've decided you won't make partner. It could be that neither the firm nor the associate wants to rock the boat because everyone is happy with the status quo.
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Re: 10th Year Associate
Not all firms have an 8 year partnership track.
- thesealocust
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Re: 10th Year Associate
After about 6-7 years at a firm, your future with the firm will be a question that gets discussed at least annually. Many firms are willing to keep people around even if they have no hope of partner, be it by promoting them to counsel or leaving them as associate. Also, not everybody starts at a firm then spends all of there time there - people leave to clerk, for other jobs, for kids, etc. and that can make things look different than they actually are.
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Re: 10th Year Associate
Not all firms have an up-or-out structure. Many firms use a flexible structure, which allows you to stay at a certain level as long as you like. Compensation is determined based on the level, rather than seniority.Anonymous User wrote:Met a guy recently who is an attorney at a NY Big Law firm. Told me he has been with the firm for 10 years. I just assumed he was a partner. Looked at his profile on the firms website and he is listed as an associate. I know people that stay longer than 8-years and don't make partner are promoted to Of Counsel or Counsel but I didn't know you could just continue at the associate level for that long. is this common? Kinda goes against the up & out reputation of Big Law.
I see no harm to be a senior associate forever - getting paid 300k/year and no pressure for business development.
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Re: 10th Year Associate
I know a guy who has been an associate for thirty years, just never made partner. Hey, it happens.
- IAFG
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Re: 10th Year Associate
Some firms even have an official or unofficial 10 yr partnership track. At any rate, I know 13th yrs.
- kalvano
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Re: 10th Year Associate
About half the time, I think being a partner is overrated anyway.
- Wholigan
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Re: 10th Year Associate
Different firms have different rules for how their partnership track works, even the up-and-out firms. Some firms allow associates to be considered for partner multiple times. I know of a couple of associates who have been 9th/10th year associates, even though the firm formally has an 8-year track. I believe in both cases they were 2-year clerks, so maybe that had something to do with it since their first year at the firm would have been as a third-year.
- Old Gregg
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Re: 10th Year Associate
Except that when the shit hits the fan, you will be among the first people let go and no one will want to hire a 10th year associate.I see no harm to be a senior associate forever - getting paid 300k/year and no pressure for business development.
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Re: 10th Year Associate
This, except you are not getting 300k a year, in all likelihood.zweitbester wrote:Except that when the shit hits the fan, you will be among the first people let go and no one will want to hire a 10th year associate.I see no harm to be a senior associate forever - getting paid 300k/year and no pressure for business development.
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Re: 10th Year Associate
Be careful, OP. The taint of his crippling failure may have rubbed off on you
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Re: 10th Year Associate
This.Desert Fox wrote:Not all firms have an 8 year partnership track.
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Re: 10th Year Associate
I definitely wasn't trying to imply he was a failure. He's actually done pretty well for himself. At first, I thought he was being modest and didn't want to mention that he was a partner at the firm. I have a friend who's a surgeon and when people ask him what he does for a living he tells them he "works at a hospital." Thought he might be one of those types. My reaction to him still being an associate after 10 years at the same big law firm had more to do with my ignorance of how big law works I suppose and less to do with him being a "failure."911 crisis actor wrote:Be careful, OP. The taint of his crippling failure may have rubbed off on you
- OutCold
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Re: 10th Year Associate
Jones Day has a 10-year partner track, among a few others.
- Devlin
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Re: 10th Year Associate
I would take that over the stress of being a partner.truevines wrote:Not all firms have an up-or-out structure. Many firms use a flexible structure, which allows you to stay at a certain level as long as you like. Compensation is determined based on the level, rather than seniority.Anonymous User wrote:Met a guy recently who is an attorney at a NY Big Law firm. Told me he has been with the firm for 10 years. I just assumed he was a partner. Looked at his profile on the firms website and he is listed as an associate. I know people that stay longer than 8-years and don't make partner are promoted to Of Counsel or Counsel but I didn't know you could just continue at the associate level for that long. is this common? Kinda goes against the up & out reputation of Big Law.
I see no harm to be a senior associate forever - getting paid 300k/year and no pressure for business development.
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- 5ky
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Re: 10th Year Associate
No, you wouldn'tDevlin wrote:I would take that over the stress of being a partner.truevines wrote:Not all firms have an up-or-out structure. Many firms use a flexible structure, which allows you to stay at a certain level as long as you like. Compensation is determined based on the level, rather than seniority.Anonymous User wrote:Met a guy recently who is an attorney at a NY Big Law firm. Told me he has been with the firm for 10 years. I just assumed he was a partner. Looked at his profile on the firms website and he is listed as an associate. I know people that stay longer than 8-years and don't make partner are promoted to Of Counsel or Counsel but I didn't know you could just continue at the associate level for that long. is this common? Kinda goes against the up & out reputation of Big Law.
I see no harm to be a senior associate forever - getting paid 300k/year and no pressure for business development.
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Re: 10th Year Associate
besides the salary, do you see any other benefits?kalvano wrote:About half the time, I think being a partner is overrated anyway.
- Old Gregg
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Re: 10th Year Associate
Significantly better job security.deebanger wrote:besides the salary, do you see any other benefits?kalvano wrote:About half the time, I think being a partner is overrated anyway.
- IAFG
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Re: 10th Year Associate
Well that's just dumb. These days, being a partner is basically running a business. If you don't want to run a small business, but do want to be a lawyer, being a career associate would be great.5ky wrote:No, you wouldn'tDevlin wrote:I would take that over the stress of being a partner.truevines wrote:Not all firms have an up-or-out structure. Many firms use a flexible structure, which allows you to stay at a certain level as long as you like. Compensation is determined based on the level, rather than seniority.Anonymous User wrote:Met a guy recently who is an attorney at a NY Big Law firm. Told me he has been with the firm for 10 years. I just assumed he was a partner. Looked at his profile on the firms website and he is listed as an associate. I know people that stay longer than 8-years and don't make partner are promoted to Of Counsel or Counsel but I didn't know you could just continue at the associate level for that long. is this common? Kinda goes against the up & out reputation of Big Law.
I see no harm to be a senior associate forever - getting paid 300k/year and no pressure for business development.
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