1L summer no idea where to begin help

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Anonymous User
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1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:07 pm

1) Am I supposed to be sending out applications now?

2) Do I email first to see if they are hiring, or do I just send applications?

3) I don't have my grades yet. Are people just sending them without grades anyway?

4) What if they ask for a writing sample? Do I submit the memo I wrote for LRW which doesn't have a grade yet? Also our LRW class wrote about a substantive law topic that we have not yet covered so the stuff I wrote is pure shit? Can I just submit a practice exam?

5) Also geographic-wise, which area am I supposed to target, cities near my school or my hometown? How would the interview process go?

6) what's the difference btw judicial externship and internship? Is that working for a judge for the summer? Is it paid?

7) If I reach out through school alumni, judges are spread throughout the nation. Perhaps I might have a better chance but does location not matter?

8) How the fuck are you supposed to be an optimistic and confident 1L?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:23 pm

Please please please please please do not send a practice exam as a writing sample. If an employer cares (i.e. judges - other employers are unlikely to ask), they want to see formal legal writing. Use your LRW memo.

What do you actually want to do, like, if you had a choice and could pick any summer legal job? That will help focus your efforts.

always_raining
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby always_raining » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:05 pm

I would prepare your application but don't hold your breath for interviews until after your grades come back. You can apply without the grades but they probably wont look at the application until you send your grades. Use your memo for a writing sample. The difference between and internship and externship is financial aid/school credits. Judicial intern/externships are unpaid, but if you're not rich, then you'll do an externship (meaning you'll get credit for the work and also can apply for financial aid).

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goldeneye
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby goldeneye » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:34 pm

What the hell does career services get paid for at your school?

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brotherdarkness
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby brotherdarkness » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:42 pm

.
Last edited by brotherdarkness on Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:49 pm

1) For some jobs you should be sending out applications; for others, you've got awhile.

2) It depends on the context - I usually e-mailed first, but I know some people who just blanketed applications.

3) Yes, people send out applications without grades.

4) Copyedit your LRW memo once more and use that. Do not use a practice exam. Don't worry too much about not knowing the law, you're a 1L.

5) Target jobs in the geographic area you hope to work after graduation and the topical area you hope to work in after graduation. This is particularly important if you want to work in a small or medium size market or a niche field. Not so important if you want NYC Biglaw.

6) Some judges pay, others don't. Your tasks in a judicial internship will vary by judge.

7) The extent to which location matters depends on your school, but the best bet is to try to find a job in the geographic area you want to work in after graduation.

8 ) Don't be afraid to cold-call companies/firms/organizations to ask if they take legal interns. I ended up with an amazing 1L internship in a small local government unit that had never offered summer internships before because of a cold-call. I also got a couple of "we're sorry but we don't take legal interns" responses, which is fine.

UnderrateOverachieve
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby UnderrateOverachieve » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:58 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:
goldeneye wrote:What the hell does career services get paid for at your school?


A question asked by nearly every law student.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:6) Some judges pay, others don't. Your tasks in a judicial internship will vary by judge.

I have never ever EVER heard of a judge paying an intern. Some schools do offer summer public interest funding for judicial internships, but that's very different (and many don't).

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fltanglab
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby fltanglab » Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:48 pm

I just wanted to add that if you apply early enough you can get interviews and offers before your grades come in for judicial internships. For me, that was a huge relief because I was stressing a lot about my grades and they ended up not mattering. I received my first interview the day after I sent out my applications in mid December.

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TheThriller
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby TheThriller » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:34 pm

Is there a website/list out there with judicial clerkship information?

UnderrateOverachieve
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby UnderrateOverachieve » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:09 pm

TheThriller wrote:Is there a website/list out there with judicial clerkship information?


In my region they strongly recommend contacting career services. My career services keeps all of the application info for clerkships for every judge in every region in the state and the entire 9th circuit and let you upload your stuff online, which they print, prepare, and send to the judges (clerks).

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:33 pm

1) Am I supposed to be sending out applications now?
Yes.

2) Do I email first to see if they are hiring, or do I just send applications?
No, just an applications. You can say in the email something along the lines of "I am a 1L and am seeking a summer associate position with your firm."

3) I don't have my grades yet. Are people just sending them without grades anyway?
Yes. Send an updated transcript to all firms once you have your grades.

4) What if they ask for a writing sample? Do I submit the memo I wrote for LRW which doesn't have a grade yet? Also our LRW class wrote about a substantive law topic that we have not yet covered so the stuff I wrote is pure shit? Can I just submit a practice exam?
Yes, but do not send a writing sample until asked. Do not submit a practice exam. Clean up your memo.

5) Also geographic-wise, which area am I supposed to target, cities near my school or my hometown? How would the interview process go?
Target areas near your school and any areas you have any connection to.

6) what's the difference btw judicial externship and internship? Is that working for a judge for the summer? Is it paid?
Externship is for credit. Unpaid, but you may be able to get some funding from your school or other grants.

7) If I reach out through school alumni, judges are spread throughout the nation. Perhaps I might have a better chance but does location not matter?
Definitely reach out to alumni. You'll have a better chance if you target alumni that are in an area you want to practice in and have a tie to, and alumni who practice a type of law that you can or have demonstrated an interest in.

8) How the fuck are you supposed to be an optimistic and confident 1L?
Just wait...

UnderrateOverachieve
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby UnderrateOverachieve » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:31 am

Total anecdote, but I suspect if you are at a lower ranked school you may want to wait for your grades to come in. Otherwise your application might get tossed if it is just TTT, no grades, and no meaningful work experience.

Total conjecture though. Anybody have thoughts on this?

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worldtraveler
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby worldtraveler » Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:1) Am I supposed to be sending out applications now?

2) Do I email first to see if they are hiring, or do I just send applications?

3) I don't have my grades yet. Are people just sending them without grades anyway?

4) What if they ask for a writing sample? Do I submit the memo I wrote for LRW which doesn't have a grade yet? Also our LRW class wrote about a substantive law topic that we have not yet covered so the stuff I wrote is pure shit? Can I just submit a practice exam?

5) Also geographic-wise, which area am I supposed to target, cities near my school or my hometown? How would the interview process go?

6) what's the difference btw judicial externship and internship? Is that working for a judge for the summer? Is it paid?

7) If I reach out through school alumni, judges are spread throughout the nation. Perhaps I might have a better chance but does location not matter?

8) How the fuck are you supposed to be an optimistic and confident 1L?


1. In general, yes, but there will be places hiring all the way into March and April.

2. Send your application. I have a negative impression of anyone who emails and asks if we're hiring or inane questions. Just apply.

3. Send without grades. Say you can provide a transcript upon request and give a time estimate.

4. Submit an LRW memo or if yours is shit write something new over break that would be better, or revise it.

5. Kind of depends on where your school is, rank, and what you want to do.

6. kind of the same thing. not paid unless your school will pay you.

7. again, depends on your situation.

8. why are you not confident? getting a 1L summer job is much, much easier than pretty much anything else involving law employment.

SouthernMiss
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby SouthernMiss » Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:51 am

1. You can wait, but you will greatly increase your chances by applying now. Other students will have applied as early as December 1, and plenty of places will want to get the hiring out of the way before mid spring. Other places will wait to make hiring decisions, but it still doesn't hurt to get your name in the pile early. I would suggest doing as many apps as you can over winter break, but don't overwhelm yourself. I'm just saying, I waited until early January-March to apply, and I wish I had started sooner. If you're diligent, though, you can be sending apps as late as February-April and still land a job, speaking from anecdotal experience of my classmates and myself!

2. Just send the application. But do check their websites first to see if they have specific requests for app materials or app forms, and deadlines.

3. Yes. People are sending them without grades and that is fine. I waited for my grades to come out, but I think that was a mistake - you want to get your foot in the door and other students are in the same boat as you without grades.

4. Proofread your LRW memo one more time, and then submit it *if they request a writing sample.* If they don't ask for a sample, just don't send one. Your LRW memo (assuming you only wrote 1) is the best sample you can provide. Gratuitous advice: Pay attention to page limits, i.e., don't send them your 10 page memo if they want a 5 page sample. Just excerpt a portion and provide a cover sheet for the sample that explains what class you wrote it for, that it is your work, and some context for the excerpt so the reader isn't confused.

5. Apply anywhere you can afford to live (without pay) for the summer. Your chances will be highest in cities/states where you have a tie, so I would recommend applying anywhere you have attended schools or have family/relatives/close friends/significant other & mention any ties you have in your cover letter. Once you have applied to those places, apply wherever you want & wherever you wouldn't mind living and can afford to live.

Note that a 1L summer job is a great way to establish ties to a new area! So if you are hoping to start a career in e.g. Boston but have no ties to Boston, send some apps there!

6. Judicial externships mean working with a judge. Some are paid but as a 1L you should not expect payment. An internship more broadly refers to any other legal employment for your 1L summer. Don't expect payment here either. Both are great. I don't think it makes much of a difference which one you end up with, honestly, unless you have a specific legal interest. If you are interested in a specific legal field, it would be best to try to get an internship in that area OR get any judicial externship. I think judicial externships are going to look good on any subsequent applications, whereas a criminal defense internship when you are interested in patent law might be less convincing. That being said, it's widely known that 1L internships rarely reflect long-term career choices and the key is more to get *any* legal internship at this point.

7. "Does location matter?" Yes and no. You should focus on where you can afford to live, where you want to live, where you have ties, and where you want to establish ties. These are all important considerations when choosing a location. But I would recommend applying broadly and seeing what happens. YOu don't want to be without a job in April simply because you thought you should only apply in 2 or 3 states or cities.

8. Law school is a growth process. You're not supposed to feel confident yet. Believe it or not, though, by the end of next semester, you will have skills that are useful to lawyers/judges, and wherever you end up next summer, you will be useful for something. As for optimism regarding landing a 1L job, just keep sending out apps. Don't restrict yourself to internships that are considered prestigious or within your ideal field of law. You WILL get a job. If it's the end of March and you're still looking, reach out to your CSO for ideas.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:17 pm

SouthernMiss wrote:6. Judicial externships mean working with a judge. Some are paid but as a 1L you should not expect payment. An internship more broadly refers to any other legal employment for your 1L summer. Don't expect payment here either. Both are great. I don't think it makes much of a difference which one you end up with, honestly, unless you have a specific legal interest. If you are interested in a specific legal field, it would be best to try to get an internship in that area OR get any judicial externship. I think judicial externships are going to look good on any subsequent applications, whereas a criminal defense internship when you are interested in patent law might be less convincing. That being said, it's widely known that 1L internships rarely reflect long-term career choices and the key is more to get *any* legal internship at this point.

Actually, you can do a judicial externship or internship, or you can do an externship or internship with most public interest employers. The difference is that an externship is done for school credit, while an internship is not. You generally can't do a paid externship because the idea is that you should get school credit or pay, but not both. (If you do an externship over the summer, though, you can get take out loans to live on.) Internships are generally not paid - most positions that law students take that pay money are just jobs, not internships, although there are some exceptions. (Internships are more likely to pay a flat stipend for the entire experience - if you're earning hourly/weekly pay, it's most likely a job. The distinction isn't really that significant in practice, except that under Dept. of Labor regulations, for-profit employers aren't supposed to offer unpaid internships, and internships are supposed to have a more educational purpose than a making-the-employer-money purpose.)

I feel pretty safe in saying that a judge is never going to pay a law student to work as an extern or intern - there may be programs through your school or bar association that provide stipends for students who spend a summer working for a judge, but the judge him/herself is not going to pay. (You can get paid to be a judicial law clerk, but that's a full-time post-graduation gig.)

I think it's true that working for a judge is a more "neutral" kind of position, in that it doesn't pigeonhole you as being interested in any particular kind of legal work, but generally, it doesn't matter what you do your 1L summer.

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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:13 am

Not to hijack the thread, but how should I approach sending an application to a real estate development company? Obviously not the traditional workplace for a 1L summer, but it's the field of law I'd like to practice in. I'm not sure if the process is the same w/r/t hiring deadlines as employment with law firms/judges.

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:40 am

Is it too late to do the entire 'blanket all firms hiring 1Ls on NALP' with a generic application, because its 30 days past Dec. 1st and I stand no chance?

UnderrateOverachieve
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby UnderrateOverachieve » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:Is it too late to do the entire 'blanket all firms hiring 1Ls on NALP' with a generic application, because its 30 days past Dec. 1st and I stand no chance?


Never too late. Do it right now.

AnotherYearOlder
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Re: 1L summer no idea where to begin help

Postby AnotherYearOlder » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:33 pm

1) Am I supposed to be sending out applications now? Yes

2) Do I email first to see if they are hiring, or do I just send applications? Nope. Fire away. Send your application to the recruiting director or, better yet, a contact of yours at the firm.

3) I don't have my grades yet. Are people just sending them without grades anyway? Absolutely

4) What if they ask for a writing sample? Do I submit the memo I wrote for LRW which doesn't have a grade yet? Also our LRW class wrote about a substantive law topic that we have not yet covered so the stuff I wrote is pure shit? Can I just submit a practice exam? Don't send a sample with your application because nobody is going to read it. If asked, make sure you have a CLEAN and POLISHED version of your LRW sample. Even take the time to go over it with your professor/TA. If it's requested, it might be read and if so, it needs to be flawless.

5) Also geographic-wise, which area am I supposed to target, cities near my school or my hometown? How would the interview process go? Cities near your school or hometown are the most obvious, because you can explain the geographic connection. Mid-market firms are more concerned about city connections that large-market firms, as a general rule. If they like your resume, you'll likely be selected for a phone screen, then a call back, etc.

6) what's the difference btw judicial externship and internship? Is that working for a judge for the summer? Is it paid?

7) If I reach out through school alumni, judges are spread throughout the nation. Perhaps I might have a better chance but does location not matter? You should absolutely use your network. Up to you whether you want to intern for a judge or not. You won't get paid, but they look very good on a resume.




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