Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

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09042014
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Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby 09042014 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:04 pm

At least if it's assigned work. If your boss makes you cite check his book that's work. If you are developing a pitch for a potential client, that's real work, valuable too.

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ggocat
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby ggocat » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:07 pm

Send your boss a bill?

rad lulz
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby rad lulz » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:24 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

keg411
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby keg411 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:02 am

My firm gives us credit towards bonuses for 200 hours/year of non-billable work (including pro bono/business development/any type of working on articles/etc). Not a bad deal and seems fair enough.

09042014
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby 09042014 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:03 am

keg411 wrote:My firm gives us credit towards bonuses for 200 hours/year of non-billable work (including pro bono/business development/any type of working on articles/etc). Not a bad deal and seems fair enough.


That's very fair. We get unlimited pro bono.

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20160810
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby 20160810 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:52 am

Desert Fox wrote:
keg411 wrote:My firm gives us credit towards bonuses for 200 hours/year of non-billable work (including pro bono/business development/any type of working on articles/etc). Not a bad deal and seems fair enough.


That's very fair. We get unlimited pro bono.

200/yr is money.

I get zero credit for non-billable work.

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androstan
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby androstan » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:11 pm

If you're working you should be billing. If there isn't a specific client/matter to bill, you bill the firm. Your firm/partners should be aware of every moment of your time you are devoting to it. Doing a bunch of work for a partner but getting no "credit" devalues yourself and is just letting that partner take advantage of you. Partners should have to make a cost/benefit evaluation before deciding to take up a bunch of your time. Anything otherwise is effectively a pay cut.

09042014
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby 09042014 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:35 pm

androstan wrote:If you're working you should be billing. If there isn't a specific client/matter to bill, you bill the firm. Your firm/partners should be aware of every moment of your time you are devoting to it. Doing a bunch of work for a partner but getting no "credit" devalues yourself and is just letting that partner take advantage of you. Partners should have to make a cost/benefit evaluation before deciding to take up a bunch of your time. Anything otherwise is effectively a pay cut.



I'm talking about billing the firm. But most firms don't count that towards your billing requirement. Things like creating a pitch for a client, or writing some stupid article for your partner don't count. That's TTT.

de5igual
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby de5igual » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:41 pm

We include those as part of our good standing 2000 hour billables, but they don't go towards any bonuses. To get that, we'd need 2100 pure client-chargeable billables.

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androstan
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby androstan » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:08 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
androstan wrote:If you're working you should be billing. If there isn't a specific client/matter to bill, you bill the firm. Your firm/partners should be aware of every moment of your time you are devoting to it. Doing a bunch of work for a partner but getting no "credit" devalues yourself and is just letting that partner take advantage of you. Partners should have to make a cost/benefit evaluation before deciding to take up a bunch of your time. Anything otherwise is effectively a pay cut.



I'm talking about billing the firm. But most firms don't count that towards your billing requirement. Things like creating a pitch for a client, or writing some stupid article for your partner don't count. That's TTT.


I totally agree. The partner is basically getting free labor from you on those.

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Hipster but Athletic
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby Hipster but Athletic » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:23 pm

tell dol that you're being suffered to work dude

rad lulz
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby rad lulz » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:25 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby 09042014 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:20 pm

I don't care they make me do the work. It just should count to my quota.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:29 pm

rad lulz wrote:
androstan wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
androstan wrote:If you're working you should be billing. If there isn't a specific client/matter to bill, you bill the firm. Your firm/partners should be aware of every moment of your time you are devoting to it. Doing a bunch of work for a partner but getting no "credit" devalues yourself and is just letting that partner take advantage of you. Partners should have to make a cost/benefit evaluation before deciding to take up a bunch of your time. Anything otherwise is effectively a pay cut.

I'm talking about billing the firm. But most firms don't count that towards your billing requirement. Things like creating a pitch for a client, or writing some stupid article for your partner don't count. That's TTT.

I totally agree. The partner is basically getting free labor from you on those.

Explain this

I assume he means that the partner is getting work out of you without you getting credit toward your required number of hours. They're "free" hours of labor. (Time literally is money, in BigLaw, from what I can tell.)

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androstan
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby androstan » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:52 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Explain this

I assume he means that the partner is getting work out of you without you getting credit toward your required number of hours. They're "free" hours of labor. (Time literally is money, in BigLaw, from what I can tell.)


Yes. They can work you for 50 hours that year on "business development" or whatever. Then work you another 50 and bill it to the client.

If the former doesn't count then you have to make up those 50 hours somehow, which is more revenue/profit for the partner/firm. The firm gets 150 hours of value from you.

If the former does count then you're done for the year. The firm gets 100 hours of value from you.

In both scenarios, you get the same salary, even taking bonus into account, because your "credited" hours are the same. So it's an hourly compensation cut. Or you can see it as a cut in your free/life time. If you see free time as one "benefit" provided by a firm then it is basically non-salary compensation. If one firm works you harder for the same money you have less free time, it's an aggregate compensation cut, even if the annual salary is constant. TTT firms love to employ "stealth" compensation/benefit cuts so they can still advertise the big bucks like the big boys and rope in debt-ridden grads.

I could see a system where non-client billable work can only be used to determine bonuses. If firms even had a robust bonus incentive program. LOL yeah right.
Last edited by androstan on Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby rad lulz » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:54 pm

m
Last edited by rad lulz on Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hipster but Athletic
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby Hipster but Athletic » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:11 pm

Why not pretend your quota is 200 higher?

rad lulz
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby rad lulz » Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:46 pm

Just got asked to do another article today

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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:32 am

Desert Fox wrote:
androstan wrote:If you're working you should be billing. If there isn't a specific client/matter to bill, you bill the firm. Your firm/partners should be aware of every moment of your time you are devoting to it. Doing a bunch of work for a partner but getting no "credit" devalues yourself and is just letting that partner take advantage of you. Partners should have to make a cost/benefit evaluation before deciding to take up a bunch of your time. Anything otherwise is effectively a pay cut.



I'm talking about billing the firm. But most firms don't count that towards your billing requirement. Things like creating a pitch for a client, or writing some stupid article for your partner don't count. That's TTT.

And if you're a bankruptcy associate guess who files the proof of claim whenever a non paying former client goes chapter 11?

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Blindmelon
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby Blindmelon » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:30 am

Thats awful. My firm gives billable credit for all business development and has no limit for pro bono. I'll round out the year at 1780 billable, the rest up to 2000 being pro bono/BD.

Anonymous User
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:28 pm

Blindmelon wrote:Thats awful. My firm gives billable credit for all business development and has no limit for pro bono. I'll round out the year at 1780 billable, the rest up to 2000 being pro bono/BD.
i seriously never knew other people get credit for their non billable work.

Wtf

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androstan
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby androstan » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:39 pm

Hipster but Athletic wrote:Why not pretend your quota is 200 higher?


I mean, if you're gunning for partnership then hitting your quota is probably the least of your concerns. But most associates just want to hit their numbers so they can take a vacation, start/maintain a family, etc. Income/nonequity partner might be an option if they're exceptionally talented and/or lucky. For these (the vast majority), adding on 200 hours of work is a big deal. A really big deal.

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sikemenow
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby sikemenow » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:06 pm

Is there a best way to find out ahead of time how different firms handle this? Just ask the firm? NALP?

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Blindmelon
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby Blindmelon » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:49 pm

androstan wrote:
Hipster but Athletic wrote:Why not pretend your quota is 200 higher?


I mean, if you're gunning for partnership then hitting your quota is probably the least of your concerns. But most associates just want to hit their numbers so they can take a vacation, start/maintain a family, etc. Income/nonequity partner might be an option if they're exceptionally talented and/or lucky. For these (the vast majority), adding on 200 hours of work is a big deal. A really big deal.


200 billed is a lot. A lot a lot a lot. Hitting 2000 isn't that bad. 2200 is a whole different ballgame. The rare person hits 2600. I don't understand them and have no desire to ever do that.

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zozin
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Re: Not getting credit for nonbillable work is TTT

Postby zozin » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:55 pm

Just pad your billables more to account for this.




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