Heard Back For 1L SA Position

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Anonymous User
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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:11 pm

A few questions about 1L SA's in general. There's not a lot of info out there, so I appreciate any insight. Thanks in advance!

If you get a 1L position, and don't end up liking the firm/enjoying the experience, can the experience possibly work against you at 2L OCI with other firms? Meaning, will other firms not want to take you thinking that you'll take an offer from your 1L firm? Or would you just convey your interest in the new firm at OCI?

Does the 1L firm put a lot of pressure on you to return, or do they generally not mind if you do OCI? I would imagine that they want you to return, but I'm not sure.

Timing of offers to return: is the timetable usually such that the 1L SA firms gives you their offer to return before OCI, or after its begun, or does it just depend?

Why are so many of these 1L positions diversity positions?

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skw
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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby skw » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:18 pm

I had a 1L SA and had no problem obtaining a 2L SA at a different firm. I had several offers. Not one of the firms asked me whether my 1L firm had made a decision yet. It seemed to make me more marketable for (1) having had the experience and (2) if another firm "wants" you, that makes you more desirable to other firms (not less so).

My 1L firm did not put pressure on me to return. They actually made me an offer in the middle of OCI, which I turned down since I had already accepted a different offer. I explained to them that the new firm was a better fit. They were fine with that -- firms build attrition into their summer hiring plans.

As I said, I got my offer to return mid-OCI, but most other people I knew who had 1L SAs (admittedly few) had their offers in hand going into OCI. No one had an offer they had to accept before completing OCI (as far as I know).

I can't speak to why most 1L SAs are diversity positions since I am not "diverse."

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2014
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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby 2014 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:09 pm

A good friend of mine had a 1L SA and was asked by like 75% of interviewers pretty assertively whether he intended to work long term at his 1L firm should an offer come. Despite that, he still did great in terms of CBs and Offers. You should just have a good answer to the question but it won't hurt you.

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:04 pm

Are non-diversity 1L SA's in California a lost cause?

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2014
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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby 2014 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Are non-diversity 1L SA's in California a lost cause?

Just checked our employment list and we had 3 white males at California law firms 1L year.

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Are non-diversity 1L SA's in California a lost cause?


I did a non-diversity 1L SA at a Bay Area firm, but I can't speak to how common they are (I assume I got extremely lucky). If you post non-anonymous I'll PM you.

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Rahviveh
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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Rahviveh » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:04 pm

nm
Last edited by Rahviveh on Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

POTUS2044
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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby POTUS2044 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are non-diversity 1L SA's in California a lost cause?


I did a non-diversity 1L SA at a Bay Area firm, but I can't speak to how common they are (I assume I got extremely lucky). If you post non-anonymous I'll PM you.


Would love that PM too

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:55 pm

Email invite to Jones Day 1L reception.

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:52 pm

Vinson and Elkins (Houston) asked for grades. Guessing it's a neutral sign.

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Email invite to Jones Day 1L reception.

Which office?

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Email invite to Jones Day 1L reception.

Which office?


Dallas

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Email invite to Jones Day 1L reception.

Which office?


Dallas


Grats!

Quick question. I asked my career office and they were pretty much useless. I applied for a long list of 1L SAs, but I also have a corporate inhouse offer as well. They'll match market for big law firms, entire summer, and I'm guaranteed reasonable hours and jobs. I have interned for them in the past and absolutely loved it. The lawyer I worked under really took time to explain things to me. Is it bad to work somewhere where I've worked before? Is that a problem at all? Also, should I even worry about 1L SA? I really like the idea of being guaranteed to leave at 5 every day, but if a 1L SA is better for my resume, I think I'd still like to keep trying to land one of those.

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:11 pm

Invited to a firm for a half-day of interviews. This is a callback, right, even though there was no screener?

I know, roughly, the chances of callback :arrow: offer for 2L OCI, but what about for 1L SAs?

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Email invite to Jones Day 1L reception.

Which office?


Dallas


Grats!

Quick question. I asked my career office and they were pretty much useless. I applied for a long list of 1L SAs, but I also have a corporate inhouse offer as well. They'll match market for big law firms, entire summer, and I'm guaranteed reasonable hours and jobs. I have interned for them in the past and absolutely loved it. The lawyer I worked under really took time to explain things to me. Is it bad to work somewhere where I've worked before? Is that a problem at all? Also, should I even worry about 1L SA? I really like the idea of being guaranteed to leave at 5 every day, but if a 1L SA is better for my resume, I think I'd still like to keep trying to land one of those.


The general idea that I've gotten is that the benefit of getting a 1L SA (particularly if it's in a market that you want to work in) is getting a foot in the door for another SA for the following summer, which covers you in case you strike out during OCI. However, I hear that working inhouse is a great experience, both from a working perspective and a networking perspective.

For me, the question would be: what is the end goal? Getting an offer from a firm? Getting hired on at the corporation you're interning for? I don't know if there will be a substantial difference in a resume boost from the employers name (barring elite firms or massive corporations). IMHO, the more appropriate evaluation from a resume perspective is the experience that you get and how you can use it.

Maybe look into seeing if the inhouse corporation that you already have an offer from will split the summer with you if you end up getting a 1L SA.

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2014
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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby 2014 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Invited to a firm for a half-day of interviews. This is a callback, right, even though there was no screener?

I know, roughly, the chances of callback :arrow: offer for 2L OCI, but what about for 1L SAs?

Yes this is effectively a callback, there won't be another round.
And your odds are decidedly worse than 2L, but non-zero, it really depends on the firm. I interviewed with one last year that was interviewing 13 people for 1 slot, another interviewed like 25 for 4 slots. The thing about 1L firm jobs is that their yield is probably pretty close to 100%, so whereas a 2L firm would offer 4 people to get 1 or something, these firms basically only offer who they hire.


To the person deciding between in house and firm, if the pay is the same I'd take in house (assuming you go to a school where you can reasonably rely on OCI to get you a job). Being no offered is a real threat for 1Ls and can be a tough black mark to get around (though there are plenty of anecdotes about it not mattering). If however, you go somewhere where most people do not get biglaw, it's probably better to get in with a firm 1L since your odds of getting an offer are still pretty good.

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Email invite to Jones Day 1L reception.

Which office?


Dallas


I got the email invite as well. I definitely plan on going, but do you get the impression that it actually means anything or that it's just a semi-mass invitation that doesn't really carry too much implication?

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:22 pm

Also got the Dallas Jones Day reception invite as well as V&E Houston

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:12 am

I also got an invite to the V&E Houston reception.

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:14 am

I'm guessing it doesn't matter but if we can't make it to one of those 1L receptions but we are still interested in the firm, should we RSVP saying we can't make it or just ignore it? My inclination is to just ignore but don't want the firm to hate me if I do so.

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm guessing it doesn't matter but if we can't make it to one of those 1L receptions but we are still interested in the firm, should we RSVP saying we can't make it or just ignore it? My inclination is to just ignore but don't want the firm to hate me if I do so.


My thinking is if I decline, they might notice, whereas if I say nothing they definitely won't notice

Who knows though....

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2014
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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby 2014 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:53 am

These receptions are pretty shamelessly a proxy for whether you are actually interested. Attending now or not will have zero effect on you for 2L OCI so don't worry about that yet, but your chances are tangibly worse for 1L summer if you don't make the appearance at these deals. Once you are there and have picked up your name tag they are pretty useless though.

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:41 am

2014 wrote:These receptions are pretty shamelessly a proxy for whether you are actually interested. Attending now or not will have zero effect on you for 2L OCI so don't worry about that yet, but your chances are tangibly worse for 1L summer if you don't make the appearance at these deals. Once you are there and have picked up your name tag they are pretty useless though.


worth a plane ticket though? bleh... Especially around holiday season... $500ish... versus $31,000 summer pay.. Are your chances of getting the job better than 2% after attending? Hmm...... Tough decision.....

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:
2014 wrote:These receptions are pretty shamelessly a proxy for whether you are actually interested. Attending now or not will have zero effect on you for 2L OCI so don't worry about that yet, but your chances are tangibly worse for 1L summer if you don't make the appearance at these deals. Once you are there and have picked up your name tag they are pretty useless though.


worth a plane ticket though? bleh... Especially around holiday season... $500ish... versus $31,000 summer pay.. Are your chances of getting the job better than 2% after attending? Hmm...... Tough decision.....

No 100% not worth a plane ticket. The discounted value is well below $500.

I personally would send a polite RSVP declining but conveying your continued interest. Doing that turned into a CB for me last year at one firm (though travel was still mostly on my own dime)

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Re: Heard Back For 1L SA Position

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:28 pm

Ding from Baker Hostetler Houston. Their summer class is full, please try again as a 2L

lol wut. It's December 12th.




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