Totally. It would be even more useful if it included vault range, URM status, journal, etc.Amicus_Curiae2013 wrote:Great thread. I wished it also included school range e.g HYS, CCN, MVP etc...
Thanks for the great contribution!
Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here Forum
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
- Old Gregg
- Posts: 5409
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:26 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
-
- Posts: 20063
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
zweitbester wrote:Totally. It would be even more useful if it included vault range, URM status, journal, etc.Amicus_Curiae2013 wrote:Great thread. I wished it also included school range e.g HYS, CCN, MVP etc...
Thanks for the great contribution!
-
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:46 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
Would be awesome!zweitbester wrote:Totally. It would be even more useful if it included vault range, URM status, journal, etc.Amicus_Curiae2013 wrote:Great thread. I wished it also included school range e.g HYS, CCN, MVP etc...
Thanks for the great contribution!
-
- Posts: 1565
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
Are you serious with this? If so, maybe make another thread where you explain why it matters to you. Why it doesn't matter- schools cost the same and there are no jobs. For some reason 0Ls don't grasp that getting a job requires more than just going to a certain T14 or having certain credentials.Amicus_Curiae2013 wrote:Would be awesome!zweitbester wrote:Totally. It would be even more useful if it included vault range, URM status, journal, etc.Amicus_Curiae2013 wrote:Great thread. I wished it also included school range e.g HYS, CCN, MVP etc...
Thanks for the great contribution!
I would add something about job searches but most of these posters seem to have jobs they got through OCI.
On topic: I have no debt. I lived at home and used money I inherited from my Dad for tuition. I am extremely debt averse. I would not have gone into the debt that is required for law school and my family wouldn't have supported it. I would have done something else instead of law school.
- Cicero76
- Posts: 1284
- Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
Most of the awfulness ITT seems to revolve around the 7.9% interest rate meaning that the principal never seems to reduce. What does it mean for those of us in school now that the rate is 5.41%? Does it make no substantive difference because the amount of loans are so high anyway?
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:46 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
It was a cynical response to the previous poster.
I was initially just curious to see if there was a significant correlation between school ranking and (first) earnings. It is nice to see a variety of schools listed in some poster's descriptions. That's all.
Very informative thread.
I was initially just curious to see if there was a significant correlation between school ranking and (first) earnings. It is nice to see a variety of schools listed in some poster's descriptions. That's all.
Very informative thread.
- Old Gregg
- Posts: 5409
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:26 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
Cicero76 wrote:Most of the awfulness ITT seems to revolve around the 7.9% interest rate meaning that the principal never seems to reduce. What does it mean for those of us in school now that the rate is 5.41%? Does it make no substantive difference because the amount of loans are so high anyway?
The higher the amount is, the more difference those percentage points make. I have a student loan for $800 sitting at around 3.6%. It makes no real difference to me if it goes a little higher (though if it goes credit card high, I might have to start rapidly paying that shit down).
I also think programs like SoFi are a godsend. If you can nab that 2.xx% interest, you're looking at loans that you'll have paid off in 10 years. And if you're in big law, you'll have paid less total than you would have under PAYE (assuming standard law school debt size and market salary), to make no mention of the tax bomb at the end which IIRC hasn't been removed.
At 2.xx% interest, your money allocation strategy changes. When you have 7%+ loans, aside from having an emergency fund, you should be throwing every dime at those loans. At 2.xx% interest, you're looking at just paying minimum payments and rolling the rest of the cash into an index fund at Vanguard. It's a better use of cash. And you have to resist the urge to vomit every time you see a high loan balance. Get used to it, because you'll soon have a mortgage at a higher interest than 2.xx%.
The big picture here is that you should divert your money to where you'll get the biggest punch. Paying off a 7% interest loan guarantees you a 7% return on your money. There are very few passively managed investments today that can beat that. And you can't actively manage investments because you're in big law (unless you're very, very talented or experienced--I actively invest but it took me years to reach the point of sustained, high profitability). At 2.xx% interest, you can get better return elsewhere.
Someone above pointed out DBBank as well. Not a huge fan of them. I get that their fixed interest rate shit is competitive, but their variable lending practices seem predatory and the sign up process doesn't inspire confidence in that area. I've heard great things about SoFi, on the other hand, and actively encourage my buddies to refinance through them.
Pre-ITE, you would've taken your government loans and refinanced through Chase, Bank of America, etc., for a lower interest rate. When I talk to senior associates, the reason they still have debt is that they refinanced when interest rates were so low and such refinancing options were still being offered by the above banks, so keeping that debt on hand isn't as bad. Today, refinancing options are few.
TL;DR: If you're sitting above 5% or so, just throw as much money as possible at them. If you're sitting high and mighty at 2.xx%, just do minimum payments. Higher liquidity and other investments are much more worth it in that case.
- lonerider
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:14 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
.
Last edited by lonerider on Sat May 10, 2014 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 1565
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:44 am
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
Senior associates didn't have the option of PAYE or IBR. They werent losing any loan forgiveness or default protection if they lost their job. (plus they have to have started with a much smaller balance given the tuition increases over the past few years.)To me the biggest issue with private refinancing is that you are throwing away a huge safety net you might need or want someday.zweitbester wrote:Cicero76 wrote:Most of the awfulness ITT seems to revolve around the 7.9% interest rate meaning that the principal never seems to reduce. What does it mean for those of us in school now that the rate is 5.41%? Does it make no substantive difference because the amount of loans are so high anyway?
The higher the amount is, the more difference those percentage points make. I have a student loan for $800 sitting at around 3.6%. It makes no real difference to me if it goes a little higher (though if it goes credit card high, I might have to start rapidly paying that shit down).
I also think programs like SoFi are a godsend. If you can nab that 2.xx% interest, you're looking at loans that you'll have paid off in 10 years. And if you're in big law, you'll have paid less total than you would have under PAYE (assuming standard law school debt size and market salary), to make no mention of the tax bomb at the end which IIRC hasn't been removed.
At 2.xx% interest, your money allocation strategy changes. When you have 7%+ loans, aside from having an emergency fund, you should be throwing every dime at those loans. At 2.xx% interest, you're looking at just paying minimum payments and rolling the rest of the cash into an index fund at Vanguard. It's a better use of cash. And you have to resist the urge to vomit every time you see a high loan balance. Get used to it, because you'll soon have a mortgage at a higher interest than 2.xx%.
The big picture here is that you should divert your money to where you'll get the biggest punch. Paying off a 7% interest loan guarantees you a 7% return on your money. There are very few passively managed investments today that can beat that. And you can't actively manage investments because you're in big law (unless you're very, very talented or experienced--I actively invest but it took me years to reach the point of sustained, high profitability). At 2.xx% interest, you can get better return elsewhere.
Someone above pointed out DBBank as well. Not a huge fan of them. I get that their fixed interest rate shit is competitive, but their variable lending practices seem predatory and the sign up process doesn't inspire confidence in that area. I've heard great things about SoFi, on the other hand, and actively encourage my buddies to refinance through them.
Pre-ITE, you would've taken your government loans and refinanced through Chase, Bank of America, etc., for a lower interest rate. When I talk to senior associates, the reason they still have debt is that they refinanced when interest rates were so low and such refinancing options were still being offered by the above banks, so keeping that debt on hand isn't as bad. Today, refinancing options are few.
TL;DR: If you're sitting above 5% or so, just throw as much money as possible at them. If you're sitting high and mighty at 2.xx%, just do minimum payments. Higher liquidity and other investments are much more worth it in that case.
- Old Gregg
- Posts: 5409
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:26 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
No risk, no reward. But I realize I'm preaching to the wrong choir on that one.
- sawwaverunner
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:28 am
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
Law-School/Undergrad Debt: $55,ooo
Income: $51,ooo
Monthly Payment: $55/month - Pay As You Earn payment [IBR plan] / PSLF program
Graduated- 2o12
Note: Payment is low because I have a household of 3 and plan on doing ten year Public Service Loan Forgiveness program.
Income: $51,ooo
Monthly Payment: $55/month - Pay As You Earn payment [IBR plan] / PSLF program
Graduated- 2o12
Note: Payment is low because I have a household of 3 and plan on doing ten year Public Service Loan Forgiveness program.
-
- Posts: 18203
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
lonerider wrote:Big law (mostly) pays lock step salary. There is a correlation between school ranking and Big Law employment. Once you get big law employment, you get the exact same salary. Look at the Vault profiles for a couple firms, looking at the salary they pay. Asking about a correlation between school ranking and earnings doesn't make any sense.Amicus_Curiae2013 wrote:It was a cynical response to the previous poster.
I was initially just curious to see if there was a significant correlation between school ranking and (first) earnings. It is nice to see a variety of schools listed in some poster's descriptions. That's all.
Very informative thread.
Cravath, vault #2, pays the same as Stroock, vault #95.
http://www.vault.com/company-profiles/l ... e-llp.aspx
http://www.vault.com/company-profiles/l ... n-llp.aspx
Cravath pays below a ton of NYC firms when you count bonuses.
- Young Marino
- Posts: 1136
- Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:36 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
Sounds like the PSLF program has really helped a lot of people. Were you dead set on working in the public sector or was something you were forced into doing because of the loans?sawwaverunner wrote:Law-School/Undergrad Debt: $55,ooo
Income: $51,ooo
Monthly Payment: $55/month - Pay As You Earn payment [IBR plan] / PSLF program
Graduated- 2o12
Note: Payment is low because I have a household of 3 and plan on doing ten year Public Service Loan Forgiveness program.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- sawwaverunner
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:28 am
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
I was pretty set on public interest work. I interned at my public interest office my 2L summer and really liked the laid back atmosphere. I also did a year EJW Fellowship at my current office before becoming a staff attorney. I could probably handle the loans without PSLF, but ten years of low payments and then having the rest discharged would be terrific.Young Marino wrote:Sounds like the PSLF program has really helped a lot of people. Were you dead set on working in the public sector or was something you were forced into doing because of the loans?sawwaverunner wrote:Law-School/Undergrad Debt: $55,ooo
Income: $51,ooo
Monthly Payment: $55/month - Pay As You Earn payment [IBR plan] / PSLF program
Graduated- 2o12
Note: Payment is low because I have a household of 3 and plan on doing ten year Public Service Loan Forgiveness program.
PSLF is great, but IBR is really a huge help.
-
- Posts: 861
- Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:56 am
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
You ask this as if public sector jobs are backup plans or last resort options that people can be forced into when they have no other choices. It's not the 90s anymore, and the days of "if biglaw doesn't work out I can always just be a public defender" are long gone. Public service gigs, even at the state level, are fiercely competitive, and unless you tailor your law school experience & resume towards public interest law from the get-go, you will probably be locked out, even with great grades and school rank and everything else that you might expect would help you. HR at my job is more likely to trash a top 10% T-14 resume with no public interest on it than a TTT above median who has devoted his/her time to relevant study & experience.Young Marino wrote:Sounds like the PSLF program has really helped a lot of people. Were you dead set on working in the public sector or was something you were forced into doing because of the loans?sawwaverunner wrote:Law-School/Undergrad Debt: $55,ooo
Income: $51,ooo
Monthly Payment: $55/month - Pay As You Earn payment [IBR plan] / PSLF program
Graduated- 2o12
Note: Payment is low because I have a household of 3 and plan on doing ten year Public Service Loan Forgiveness program.
-
- Posts: 694
- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:17 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
helfer snooterbagon wrote:The issue is that interest on student loans is an adjustment to income - it is taken off at the top and reduces your adjusted gross income (AGI). Deductions are applied a bit later on in the process. I am almost positive tubo tax did not do the calculation wrong, it is a solid program. Edit: Sorry for going off topic.fenton wrote:He's right.Total Litigator wrote:If you are correct, then Turbotax gone and done me wrong.dixiecupdrinking wrote:You can take the standard deduction and still take the student loan interest deduction. The problem is the income cap.
http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc456.html
Generally people who make less than $70k don't itemize their deductions. That would be a particularly cruel joke for congress to play.
Whoops, you guys are right, my bad.
-
- Posts: 498
- Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:56 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
How is this helpful? My loans don't give a damn where I went to school or what journal I'm on. I wouldn't want 0Ls using these out-of-context anecdotes to gauge their chances at BigLaw or something.zweitbester wrote:Totally. It would be even more useful if it included vault range, URM status, journal, etc.Amicus_Curiae2013 wrote:Great thread. I wished it also included school range e.g HYS, CCN, MVP etc...
Thanks for the great contribution!
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
- Old Gregg
- Posts: 5409
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:26 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
I was going to say, "woosh," but maybe that would've gone over your head too. So to be clear:dudders wrote:How is this helpful? My loans don't give a damn where I went to school or what journal I'm on. I wouldn't want 0Ls using these out-of-context anecdotes to gauge their chances at BigLaw or something.zweitbester wrote:Totally. It would be even more useful if it included vault range, URM status, journal, etc.Amicus_Curiae2013 wrote:Great thread. I wished it also included school range e.g HYS, CCN, MVP etc...
Thanks for the great contribution!
I was being sarcastic.
-
- Posts: 1381
- Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:41 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
Is there a thread similar to this but more tailored to people posting their loan repayment strategies and answering questions?
- kay2016
- Posts: 1119
- Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:23 am
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
Maybe this thread? http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 0&t=183509jd20132013 wrote:Is there a thread similar to this but more tailored to people posting their loan repayment strategies and answering questions?
-
- Posts: 428534
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
0L here, looking for any JAG actual numbers out there? Is Uncle Sam nice to commissioned officers and law school debt?
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- Big Shrimpin
- Posts: 2470
- Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
Started with 185k debt, paid down to like 147k over a year
3.5k(ish)/mo
MFH biglaw 160k+market bonus
Trying to pay them all ASAP, prioritizing DAT 7.9% direct loan burden before the smaller staffords (just pay mins).
HOAPING not to get shitcanned.
3.5k(ish)/mo
MFH biglaw 160k+market bonus
Trying to pay them all ASAP, prioritizing DAT 7.9% direct loan burden before the smaller staffords (just pay mins).
HOAPING not to get shitcanned.
-
- Posts: 428534
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
3rd year associate in biglaw
Debt: ~$160K plus spouse's $80K (started with ~$190K for me, $120K for spouse)
Income: ~$170K plus ~$50K from spouse salary
Monthly payments: $1,450/month (plus spouse's grad loans ~$800/month)
Some of you may ask - how the hell did you not pay more down on your loans? Throw in a wedding and saving/buying a house and it can put a pretty big dent in your income. I'm really hoping we can get this repaid in the next 10 years. It probably won't happen. 15years is probably more realistic (maybe 20) based upon the fact that I probably can't last in big law and we want to have kids soon.
We don't live extravagantly. As much as you think you will be just put all of your income towards your loans, you won't. Dry cleaning bills add up, clothes add up (even if you aren't super into fashion...biz clothes are expensive), take-out adds up (because you have no time to cook/shop), and you will want to enjoy yourself a little bit during the small pockets of free time that you have (e.g., not just staying home for a vacation, going to a concert, etc.). It depends on how old you are. If you went college to law school, can put off buying/saving for a home because you aren't going to have kids soon and/or don't have to save for a wedding, then you can put a big dent in there. My spouse's loans would probably be close to paid off if we hadn't saved aggressively for a house and had to pay for our own wedding. Think very carefully about your lifestyle, financial plan and be realistic. Best savings tip is to bring your own lunch. It's healthier and saves you a ton of cash. I am super thankful I got big law - I would have been fucked otherwise.
Debt: ~$160K plus spouse's $80K (started with ~$190K for me, $120K for spouse)
Income: ~$170K plus ~$50K from spouse salary
Monthly payments: $1,450/month (plus spouse's grad loans ~$800/month)
Some of you may ask - how the hell did you not pay more down on your loans? Throw in a wedding and saving/buying a house and it can put a pretty big dent in your income. I'm really hoping we can get this repaid in the next 10 years. It probably won't happen. 15years is probably more realistic (maybe 20) based upon the fact that I probably can't last in big law and we want to have kids soon.
We don't live extravagantly. As much as you think you will be just put all of your income towards your loans, you won't. Dry cleaning bills add up, clothes add up (even if you aren't super into fashion...biz clothes are expensive), take-out adds up (because you have no time to cook/shop), and you will want to enjoy yourself a little bit during the small pockets of free time that you have (e.g., not just staying home for a vacation, going to a concert, etc.). It depends on how old you are. If you went college to law school, can put off buying/saving for a home because you aren't going to have kids soon and/or don't have to save for a wedding, then you can put a big dent in there. My spouse's loans would probably be close to paid off if we hadn't saved aggressively for a house and had to pay for our own wedding. Think very carefully about your lifestyle, financial plan and be realistic. Best savings tip is to bring your own lunch. It's healthier and saves you a ton of cash. I am super thankful I got big law - I would have been fucked otherwise.
-
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:48 pm
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
Debt: $77k
Income: $120k
Payments: $950 on a 10-year plan.
Anyone have thoughts on how much should be allocated to savings compared to paying down debt? I keep saying that I'm going to put aside an emergency fund, but it's tempting to just throw all I can at the loans.... My plan is to pay the minimum on my loans until I hit $10k-12k in savings - then hit the loans hard and allocate a much smaller percentage of my income towards savings. How are you folks balancing savings/loan repayments?
Income: $120k
Payments: $950 on a 10-year plan.
Anyone have thoughts on how much should be allocated to savings compared to paying down debt? I keep saying that I'm going to put aside an emergency fund, but it's tempting to just throw all I can at the loans.... My plan is to pay the minimum on my loans until I hit $10k-12k in savings - then hit the loans hard and allocate a much smaller percentage of my income towards savings. How are you folks balancing savings/loan repayments?
-
- Posts: 861
- Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:56 am
Re: Student loan payments: Actual numbers
What are these savings you speak of? Paycheck to paycheck up in here.joblawl wrote:Debt: $77k
Income: $120k
Payments: $950 on a 10-year plan.
Anyone have thoughts on how much should be allocated to savings compared to paying down debt? I keep saying that I'm going to put aside an emergency fund, but it's tempting to just throw all I can at the loans.... My plan is to pay the minimum on my loans until I hit $10k-12k in savings - then hit the loans hard and allocate a much smaller percentage of my income towards savings. How are you folks balancing savings/loan repayments?
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login