Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

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star fox
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Re: Pay off Loans or Invest (...In What)?

Postby star fox » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:14 pm

trebekismyhero wrote:
silenttimer wrote:I would recommend saving up for an emergency fund (4-6 months of living expenses) in a saving/checking account. After that, you should dump everything into your loans because it's an automatic return on the money you save from not having to pay interests. With the market being somewhat high right now, I am not certain that you can get 6-8% return from the market this year if you were to start at this point. At $6k per month, you should be able to be done with your loans in 2-3 years. This was my strategy and I've been debt free for over two years now.

Good luck!


Agree with this. I am junior and still have debt, but saved up about $20k in emergency savings account. I have been aggressively paying my loans since. I too am concerned about the stock market peaking so I have opened up a cash value life insurance policy and put a little bit in a mutual fund. I just think we are due for a recession or at least some correction soon so I haven't put much in the market.

Ehh, not a big fan of this approach. Timing the market is just a guessing game, and isn't worth the effort. If someone decided this approach a year ago or even 6 months ago, they'd be down a fair chunk now compared to where they could have been. Better to just enter when the opportunity strikes and ride it out - good or bad - knowing you're investing over a long time period.

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bk1
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Re: Pay off Loans or Invest (...In What)?

Postby bk1 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:15 pm

star fox wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
silenttimer wrote:I would recommend saving up for an emergency fund (4-6 months of living expenses) in a saving/checking account. After that, you should dump everything into your loans because it's an automatic return on the money you save from not having to pay interests. With the market being somewhat high right now, I am not certain that you can get 6-8% return from the market this year if you were to start at this point. At $6k per month, you should be able to be done with your loans in 2-3 years. This was my strategy and I've been debt free for over two years now.

Good luck!


Agree with this. I am junior and still have debt, but saved up about $20k in emergency savings account. I have been aggressively paying my loans since. I too am concerned about the stock market peaking so I have opened up a cash value life insurance policy and put a little bit in a mutual fund. I just think we are due for a recession or at least some correction soon so I haven't put much in the market.

Ehh, not a big fan of this approach. Timing the market is just a guessing game, and isn't worth the effort. If someone decided this approach a year ago or even 6 months ago, they'd be down a fair chunk now compared to where they could have been. Better to just enter when the opportunity strikes and ride it out - good or bad - knowing you're investing over a long time period.

+1 (opportunity strikes being when you have the money available to invest)

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El Pollito
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby El Pollito » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:17 pm

just park your $ and forget it

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kellyfrost
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Re: Pay off Loans or Invest (...In What)?

Postby kellyfrost » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:17 pm

star fox wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
silenttimer wrote:I would recommend saving up for an emergency fund (4-6 months of living expenses) in a saving/checking account. After that, you should dump everything into your loans because it's an automatic return on the money you save from not having to pay interests. With the market being somewhat high right now, I am not certain that you can get 6-8% return from the market this year if you were to start at this point. At $6k per month, you should be able to be done with your loans in 2-3 years. This was my strategy and I've been debt free for over two years now.

Good luck!


Agree with this. I am junior and still have debt, but saved up about $20k in emergency savings account. I have been aggressively paying my loans since. I too am concerned about the stock market peaking so I have opened up a cash value life insurance policy and put a little bit in a mutual fund. I just think we are due for a recession or at least some correction soon so I haven't put much in the market.

Ehh, not a big fan of this approach. Timing the market is just a guessing game, and isn't worth the effort. If someone decided this approach a year ago or even 6 months ago, they'd be down a fair chunk now compared to where they could have been. Better to just enter when the opportunity strikes and ride it out - good or bad - knowing you're investing over a long time period.



Why would you buy a cash value life insurance policy? As a savings vehicle or as life insurance? Either way it was a
poor move. Even if you bought for both savings and life insurance it was a poor move.
For insurance, you are much better buying a term policy.
For savings and investment vehicles there are a lot better products out there that aren't tied to an over-priced life insurance policy.

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Johann
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Re: Pay off Loans or Invest (...In What)?

Postby Johann » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:13 pm

kellyfrost wrote:
star fox wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
silenttimer wrote:I would recommend saving up for an emergency fund (4-6 months of living expenses) in a saving/checking account. After that, you should dump everything into your loans because it's an automatic return on the money you save from not having to pay interests. With the market being somewhat high right now, I am not certain that you can get 6-8% return from the market this year if you were to start at this point. At $6k per month, you should be able to be done with your loans in 2-3 years. This was my strategy and I've been debt free for over two years now.

Good luck!


Agree with this. I am junior and still have debt, but saved up about $20k in emergency savings account. I have been aggressively paying my loans since. I too am concerned about the stock market peaking so I have opened up a cash value life insurance policy and put a little bit in a mutual fund. I just think we are due for a recession or at least some correction soon so I haven't put much in the market.

Ehh, not a big fan of this approach. Timing the market is just a guessing game, and isn't worth the effort. If someone decided this approach a year ago or even 6 months ago, they'd be down a fair chunk now compared to where they could have been. Better to just enter when the opportunity strikes and ride it out - good or bad - knowing you're investing over a long time period.



Why would you buy a cash value life insurance policy? As a savings vehicle or as life insurance? Either way it was a
poor move. Even if you bought for both savings and life insurance it was a poor move.
For insurance, you are much better buying a term policy.
For savings and investment vehicles there are a lot better products out there that aren't tied to an over-priced life insurance policy.

they come with a shitload of tax planning opportunities.

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kellyfrost
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Re: Pay off Loans or Invest (...In What)?

Postby kellyfrost » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:27 pm

Johann wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:
star fox wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
silenttimer wrote:I would recommend saving up for an emergency fund (4-6 months of living expenses) in a saving/checking account. After that, you should dump everything into your loans because it's an automatic return on the money you save from not having to pay interests. With the market being somewhat high right now, I am not certain that you can get 6-8% return from the market this year if you were to start at this point. At $6k per month, you should be able to be done with your loans in 2-3 years. This was my strategy and I've been debt free for over two years now.

Good luck!


Agree with this. I am junior and still have debt, but saved up about $20k in emergency savings account. I have been aggressively paying my loans since. I too am concerned about the stock market peaking so I have opened up a cash value life insurance policy and put a little bit in a mutual fund. I just think we are due for a recession or at least some correction soon so I haven't put much in the market.

Ehh, not a big fan of this approach. Timing the market is just a guessing game, and isn't worth the effort. If someone decided this approach a year ago or even 6 months ago, they'd be down a fair chunk now compared to where they could have been. Better to just enter when the opportunity strikes and ride it out - good or bad - knowing you're investing over a long time period.



Why would you buy a cash value life insurance policy? As a savings vehicle or as life insurance? Either way it was a
poor move. Even if you bought for both savings and life insurance it was a poor move.
For insurance, you are much better buying a term policy.
For savings and investment vehicles there are a lot better products out there that aren't tied to an over-priced life insurance policy.

they come with a shitload of tax planning opportunities.


I'll submit that I don't know or understand the tax planning opportunities of a cash value life insurance policy. So maybe that is why you bought it. I still stand by my opinion that they aren't a good insurance vehicle.

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Re: Pay off Loans or Invest (...In What)?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:37 pm

Johann wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:
star fox wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
silenttimer wrote:I would recommend saving up for an emergency fund (4-6 months of living expenses) in a saving/checking account. After that, you should dump everything into your loans because it's an automatic return on the money you save from not having to pay interests. With the market being somewhat high right now, I am not certain that you can get 6-8% return from the market this year if you were to start at this point. At $6k per month, you should be able to be done with your loans in 2-3 years. This was my strategy and I've been debt free for over two years now.

Good luck!


Agree with this. I am junior and still have debt, but saved up about $20k in emergency savings account. I have been aggressively paying my loans since. I too am concerned about the stock market peaking so I have opened up a cash value life insurance policy and put a little bit in a mutual fund. I just think we are due for a recession or at least some correction soon so I haven't put much in the market.

Ehh, not a big fan of this approach. Timing the market is just a guessing game, and isn't worth the effort. If someone decided this approach a year ago or even 6 months ago, they'd be down a fair chunk now compared to where they could have been. Better to just enter when the opportunity strikes and ride it out - good or bad - knowing you're investing over a long time period.



Why would you buy a cash value life insurance policy? As a savings vehicle or as life insurance? Either way it was a
poor move. Even if you bought for both savings and life insurance it was a poor move.
For insurance, you are much better buying a term policy.
For savings and investment vehicles there are a lot better products out there that aren't tied to an over-priced life insurance policy.

they come with a shitload of tax planning opportunities.

How many of those tax planning opportunities are relevant to a junior BigLaw associate? I mostly remember either legitimately rich people or doctors with basically 30 years of guaranteed 6 figure income benefiting from cash value policies based on the ability to duck inheritance taxes and such.

transfer22
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby transfer22 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:13 pm

Moving to San Diego, hoping to refi my refi now that I'm going to be in a First Republic-eligible location. Currently paying ~3.3% mixed between a variable @ 2.9ish with autopay and a fixed @ 3.8ish with autopay.

Does anyone have advice on contacting them? (or a promotional link?) I'll be under their 2-year experience limit, but I will also have cash and other liquid assets amounting to over 20% of my principal.

Also, if anyone has advice on San Diego generally, I'm happy to hear it/PM me.

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JenDarby
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby JenDarby » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:59 pm

transfer22 wrote:Moving to San Diego, hoping to refi my refi now that I'm going to be in a First Republic-eligible location. Currently paying ~3.3% mixed between a variable @ 2.9ish with autopay and a fixed @ 3.8ish with autopay.

Does anyone have advice on contacting them? (or a promotional link?) I'll be under their 2-year experience limit, but I will also have cash and other liquid assets amounting to over 20% of my principal.

Also, if anyone has advice on San Diego generally, I'm happy to hear it/PM me.

with those parameters you will probably be fine with an FRB refi, assuming excellent credit and not heavily leveraged in other ways. I refinanced my refi with them, and I'm also from San Diego. I'll PM you

PowerBag21
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby PowerBag21 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:55 pm

I'm a 2nd year associate in BigLaw NYC making market.

Debt: $214,800 with no credit card or other debt.

I've been maxing out my 401k and have about $35,000 saved.

I refi'd my full loan balance of $237,500 with First Republic last May and got a 2.95% fixed interest rate over 10 years, which puts my monthly payment at $2,285/month. I've been saving about $2,000 - $2,500 each month which I put into a taxable brokerage account. My plan was always to make the minimum payment on my First Republic loans to (1) build liquidity and (2) put the money I'm saving into the market with the expectation/hope that I could beat 2.95% in any reasonable term. Although I think this makes sense on paper, being 1 out of 10 years into my loan repayment, I think I may have underestimated the pressure I would feel being so highly leveraged and having such a large loan balance hanging over my head, and I think if I could do it again I would've gone for the 7 year 2.65% or even the 5 year 1.95% (rates as of last May). First Republic's rates have since gone up (the 7 year term is now 2.95% (which is the rate I have now) and the 5 year is 2.35%).

I've been recently toying with the idea of refi'ing again at 2.35% over 5 years, but this would make saving tough (my monthly payment would go from $2,285 to $3,800) so I'd only be able to save about $500 - $1,000/month, although I could probably increase this by cutting back on my lifestyle a bit.

While I realize the decision whether to refi again is almost totally a personal one, anyone have any thoughts on which way to go?

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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby RaceJudicata » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:07 pm

PowerBag21 wrote:I'm a 2nd year associate in BigLaw NYC making market.

Debt: $214,800 with no credit card or other debt.

I've been maxing out my 401k and have about $35,000 saved.

I refi'd my full loan balance of $237,500 with First Republic last May and got a 2.95% fixed interest rate over 10 years, which puts my monthly payment at $2,285/month. I've been saving about $2,000 - $2,500 each month which I put into a taxable brokerage account. My plan was always to make the minimum payment on my First Republic loans to (1) build liquidity and (2) put the money I'm saving into the market with the expectation/hope that I could beat 2.95% in any reasonable term. Although I think this makes sense on paper, being 1 out of 10 years into my loan repayment, I think I may have underestimated the pressure I would feel being so highly leveraged and having such a large loan balance hanging over my head, and I think if I could do it again I would've gone for the 7 year 2.65% or even the 5 year 1.95% (rates as of last May). First Republic's rates have since gone up (the 7 year term is now 2.95% (which is the rate I have now) and the 5 year is 2.35%).

I've been recently toying with the idea of refi'ing again at 2.35% over 5 years, but this would make saving tough (my monthly payment would go from $2,285 to $3,800) so I'd only be able to save about $500 - $1,000/month, although I could probably increase this by cutting back on my lifestyle a bit.

While I realize the decision whether to refi again is almost totally a personal one, anyone have any thoughts on which way to go?


Seems risky, particularly as a 2nd year. Have to consider your ability to repay if you no longer have your big law job in 1-3 years. I think you are better off staying where you are at, saving extra money...then if shit hits the fan, you have some savings to contribute to your loans (as a last resort, of course). That said, you are correct, definitely a personal decision.

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bk1
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:11 pm

PowerBag21 wrote:I'm a 2nd year associate in BigLaw NYC making market.

Debt: $214,800 with no credit card or other debt.

I've been maxing out my 401k and have about $35,000 saved.

I refi'd my full loan balance of $237,500 with First Republic last May and got a 2.95% fixed interest rate over 10 years, which puts my monthly payment at $2,285/month. I've been saving about $2,000 - $2,500 each month which I put into a taxable brokerage account. My plan was always to make the minimum payment on my First Republic loans to (1) build liquidity and (2) put the money I'm saving into the market with the expectation/hope that I could beat 2.95% in any reasonable term. Although I think this makes sense on paper, being 1 out of 10 years into my loan repayment, I think I may have underestimated the pressure I would feel being so highly leveraged and having such a large loan balance hanging over my head, and I think if I could do it again I would've gone for the 7 year 2.65% or even the 5 year 1.95% (rates as of last May). First Republic's rates have since gone up (the 7 year term is now 2.95% (which is the rate I have now) and the 5 year is 2.35%).

I've been recently toying with the idea of refi'ing again at 2.35% over 5 years, but this would make saving tough (my monthly payment would go from $2,285 to $3,800) so I'd only be able to save about $500 - $1,000/month, although I could probably increase this by cutting back on my lifestyle a bit.

While I realize the decision whether to refi again is almost totally a personal one, anyone have any thoughts on which way to go?

It's funny because I went for a 7 year but I think FR's 10 year was the sweet spot (0.3% increase to extend the loan for 3 years seems easily worth it). Heck, the 15 year might also have been an even better deal.

I would look at it this way: if you paid off your current loan in 5 years (using equal monthly payments), you would pay about 13.1k in interest at 2.95. If you refied to 2.35, you would pay 16.5k in interest over the same 5 years. That 3.4k difference is barely more than 1 month's payment (e.g., the difference between paying it off in 60 months rather than 61) and on a per month basis is only ~57/month for 60 months.

I just don't see that kind of saving being worth sacrificing 5 years of flexibility on your loan in the event something happens. If you want to pay it off faster than 10 years (in 5 years or any other amount), go ahead and do that. But I wouldn't refi.

PowerBag21
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby PowerBag21 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:25 pm

bk1 wrote:
PowerBag21 wrote:I'm a 2nd year associate in BigLaw NYC making market.

Debt: $214,800 with no credit card or other debt.

I've been maxing out my 401k and have about $35,000 saved.

I refi'd my full loan balance of $237,500 with First Republic last May and got a 2.95% fixed interest rate over 10 years, which puts my monthly payment at $2,285/month. I've been saving about $2,000 - $2,500 each month which I put into a taxable brokerage account. My plan was always to make the minimum payment on my First Republic loans to (1) build liquidity and (2) put the money I'm saving into the market with the expectation/hope that I could beat 2.95% in any reasonable term. Although I think this makes sense on paper, being 1 out of 10 years into my loan repayment, I think I may have underestimated the pressure I would feel being so highly leveraged and having such a large loan balance hanging over my head, and I think if I could do it again I would've gone for the 7 year 2.65% or even the 5 year 1.95% (rates as of last May). First Republic's rates have since gone up (the 7 year term is now 2.95% (which is the rate I have now) and the 5 year is 2.35%).

I've been recently toying with the idea of refi'ing again at 2.35% over 5 years, but this would make saving tough (my monthly payment would go from $2,285 to $3,800) so I'd only be able to save about $500 - $1,000/month, although I could probably increase this by cutting back on my lifestyle a bit.

While I realize the decision whether to refi again is almost totally a personal one, anyone have any thoughts on which way to go?

It's funny because I went for a 7 year but I think FR's 10 year was the sweet spot (0.3% increase to extend the loan for 3 years seems easily worth it). Heck, the 15 year might also have been an even better deal.

I would look at it this way: if you paid off your current loan in 5 years (using equal monthly payments), you would pay about 13.1k in interest at 2.95. If you refied to 2.35, you would pay 16.5k in interest over the same 5 years. That 3.4k difference is barely more than 1 month's payment (e.g., the difference between paying it off in 60 months rather than 61) and on a per month basis is only ~57/month for 60 months.

I just don't see that kind of saving being worth sacrificing 5 years of flexibility on your loan in the event something happens. If you want to pay it off faster than 10 years (in 5 years or any other amount), go ahead and do that. But I wouldn't refi.


Good point. I could just start paying off my current loan as if I were on the 5 year plan, and I'd end up making basically only one extra payment at the end in exchange for the flexibility to pay as little as $2,285 per month at any point. Maybe I'm overestimating the savings associated with a .6% drop in APR. When you lay it out like that, I think I'll stay where I am. Now just need to figure out how much I'd like to pay per month.

PowerBag21
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby PowerBag21 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:31 pm

Forgive my naïveté, but what exactly are the interest implications on prepayments? For example, if my monthly payment of $2,285 is due on the 10th of every month, and on the 11th, I choose to pay an additional $2,285, I assume that this additional payment reduces my principal by that amount e.g. prepayments go entirely to principal such that prepayments ultimately save the borrower more if made near the beginning of the loan as compared to the end?

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bk1
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:44 pm

PowerBag21 wrote:Forgive my naïveté, but what exactly are the interest implications on prepayments? For example, if my monthly payment of $2,285 is due on the 10th of every month, and on the 11th, I choose to pay an additional $2,285, I assume that this additional payment reduces my principal by that amount e.g. prepayments go entirely to principal such that prepayments ultimately save the borrower more if made near the beginning of the loan as compared to the end?

Yes. You can tell them that you want the overpayment to go entirely to principal.

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El Pollito
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby El Pollito » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:58 pm

my coworker just told me that there's some jewish association in SF that gives jews interest free loans, so i may refi part of my refi. check out your ethnoreligious loan options, friends.

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El Pollito
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby El Pollito » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:28 pm

omg the jews are going to refinance 15k of my debt at no interest

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Nebby
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Nebby » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:08 pm

El Pollito wrote:my coworker just told me that there's some jewish association in SF that gives jews interest free loans, so i may refi part of my refi. check out your ethnoreligious loan options, friends.

Do they have to be sincerely held religious beliefs?

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bk1
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby bk1 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:41 pm

Nebby wrote:
El Pollito wrote:my coworker just told me that there's some jewish association in SF that gives jews interest free loans, so i may refi part of my refi. check out your ethnoreligious loan options, friends.

Do they have to be sincerely held religious beliefs?

There's still the "ethno" part of "ethnoreligious."

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El Pollito
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby El Pollito » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:53 pm

Nebby wrote:
El Pollito wrote:my coworker just told me that there's some jewish association in SF that gives jews interest free loans, so i may refi part of my refi. check out your ethnoreligious loan options, friends.

Do they have to be sincerely held religious beliefs?

no i think they're just going off of my last name. i'll let you know if they ask any pressing questions in my loan interview.

this is amazing.

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Mr. Peanutbutter
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Mr. Peanutbutter » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:12 pm

Wow that's awesome! Good job chicken

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El Pollito
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby El Pollito » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:28 pm

my remaining fed loans got kicked out of repaye :cry:

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magnum_law
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby magnum_law » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:45 am

El Pollito wrote:my remaining fed loans got kicked out of repaye :cry:


What? That can happen - how??

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Pokemon
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Pokemon » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:01 am

magnum_law wrote:
El Pollito wrote:my remaining fed loans got kicked out of repaye :cry:


What? That can happen - how??

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grand inquisitor
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby grand inquisitor » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:07 am

my guess would be they autokick anyone whose repaye payment becomes equal to or greater than their standard repayment plan payment




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