Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:21 pm

Johann wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:$68K salary, $110K debt. How much should I expect my payments to be under REPAYE or IBR? $500-600 range?

At this income level, it's SUPER IMPORTSNT to be smart with your pretax planning. Can basically create free money if you are smart and fiscally responsible. Search posts by avbucks. He's doing an IBR on a roughly similar income and has it all figured out.


I looked through his posts and it looks like maxing out my 401K is the main thing. What did you mean by your "free money" comment?

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Johann
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Johann » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Johann wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:$68K salary, $110K debt. How much should I expect my payments to be under REPAYE or IBR? $500-600 range?

At this income level, it's SUPER IMPORTSNT to be smart with your pretax planning. Can basically create free money if you are smart and fiscally responsible. Search posts by avbucks. He's doing an IBR on a roughly similar income and has it all figured out.


I looked through his posts and it looks like maxing out my 401K is the main thing. What did you mean by your "free money" comment?

I mean if your loan payment at 50k income is 350/month and you can move 10k of income over to 401k in order to pay 1k less in student loans you've created 1k of money. You've moved 1k that you would be paying to the government to your future selfs pocket.
You can also do the same with HSA if you have yearly contact costs or whatever.

(Edited because wrong info)

Since you're posting anonymous, just out more of your details and a viable benefits and I'll try to crest an excel and paste in this thread as an example this weekend.

If you provide your state and a rough monthly budget of how much money you actually need/use, we can get pretty specific. Details about a significant other and their income could also be useful (i.e. Make her the cash holder and you be the retirement/deferred income account).
Last edited by Johann on Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JenDarby
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby JenDarby » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:12 pm

Johann wrote:

^ is that actually true though? As you said, PAYE calculations based on AGI. mortgage interest/property tax deductions are itemized deductions, they aren't adjustments to income that affect AGI. I think you're confusing AGI and taxable income

AGI is only reduced by above the line deductions (i.e.):

Classroom expenses paid for by teachers
Job related moving expenses
Student loan interest and tuition
Deductible retirement account contributions
HSA
Alimony payments

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Johann
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Johann » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:34 pm

JenDarby wrote:
Johann wrote:

^ is that actually true though? As you said, PAYE calculations based on AGI. mortgage interest/property tax deductions are itemized deductions, they aren't adjustments to income that affect AGI. I think you're confusing AGI and taxable income

AGI is only reduced by above the line deductions (i.e.):

Classroom expenses paid for by teachers
Job related moving expenses
Student loan interest and tuition
Deductible retirement account contributions
HSA
Alimony payments

You're right. Fuck I just partially bought property because of the mortgage interest deduction (used the reasoning when I was wavering) without even realizing it was based on AGI instead of taxable income. Whoops.

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JenDarby
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby JenDarby » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:37 pm

Johann wrote:
JenDarby wrote:
Johann wrote:

^ is that actually true though? As you said, PAYE calculations based on AGI. mortgage interest/property tax deductions are itemized deductions, they aren't adjustments to income that affect AGI. I think you're confusing AGI and taxable income

AGI is only reduced by above the line deductions (i.e.):

Classroom expenses paid for by teachers
Job related moving expenses
Student loan interest and tuition
Deductible retirement account contributions
HSA
Alimony payments

You're right. Fuck I just partially bought property because of the mortgage interest deduction (used the reasoning when I was wavering) without even realizing it was based on AGI instead of taxable income. Whoops.

:lol: well the income deduction is still legit

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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:54 pm

Johann wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Johann wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:$68K salary, $110K debt. How much should I expect my payments to be under REPAYE or IBR? $500-600 range?

At this income level, it's SUPER IMPORTSNT to be smart with your pretax planning. Can basically create free money if you are smart and fiscally responsible. Search posts by avbucks. He's doing an IBR on a roughly similar income and has it all figured out.


I looked through his posts and it looks like maxing out my 401K is the main thing. What did you mean by your "free money" comment?

I mean if your loan payment at 50k income is 350/month and you can move 10k of income over to 401k in order to pay 1k less in student loans you've created 1k of money. You've moved 1k that you would be paying to the government to your future selfs pocket.
You can also do the same with HSA if you have yearly contact costs or whatever.

(Edited because wrong info)

Since you're posting anonymous, just out more of your details and a viable benefits and I'll try to crest an excel and paste in this thread as an example this weekend.

If you provide your state and a rough monthly budget of how much money you actually need/use, we can get pretty specific. Details about a significant other and their income could also be useful (i.e. Make her the cash holder and you be the retirement/deferred income account).


Income: $68K base, $74K all-in including bonus. In another year to year and a half I'll be at $78-82K base. Don't want to get too specific. Currently putting 10% of income into 401K. Take home pay each month is around $3900. Not married, but fiancé makes $32K with a take home income of $1,900.

Renting at $1,400 a month in TX. (Austin/Dallas/Houston). Saving for a house. I'm 25. A solid house in my area (that's less than 30 minutes to work) is somewhere in the range of $275-300K, but I'm at least 2-3 years away from buying. I'll be in TX for the long haul.

Other expenses: Car - $350, Utilities - $250. No CC debt. Rent, car payment and utilities are my only true fixed expenses at the moment, parents cover car insurance and cell phone.

I spend $55/week on lunch, $25-40/week on parking or public transit and less than $15 per week on gas since I live 3 miles from work.

My fiancée has a $400/month car payment, $200 per month in CC payments, $100 cell bill, $100 insurance. She works for a non-profit but will probably go teach in another year or so which should bump her income up to $48-50K.

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Johann
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Johann » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:08 am

Cool. I'll put an excel together on Saturday and quote you in.

Off the top of my head, your best short term plan (assuming your goal is to minimize student loan payments) is to max 401k and basically tell your fiancé you're doing the retirement saving for the both of you right now. However once you get married, assuming she doesn't have debt, it's going to be inconvenient for you to file separate taxes since joint taxes will give you a tax benefit with the pretty big income disparity and then your combined incomes will basically be paying the debt down in full eventually.
That makes me lean to REPAYE with a refi in a couple years. But I'll post some numbers later.

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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Humbert Humbert » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:31 am

Johann wrote:Just north of 500k debt between spouse and I. Roughly 6-7% (don't pay attn because it doesn't matter).
PAYE
just refiled the income calculation with my wife since marriage and combined payments for us are $1,500/month (which is well less than our monthly interest accruing)
Payment based on 200k income tax return
Household income now over 300k

To get kicked off PAYE, household income would have to be over 550k now.

What's your long term plan re: PAYE vs. re-fi? Curious as someone entering big law w/ a large debt load as well.

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Johann
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Johann » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:47 am

Humbert Humbert wrote:
Johann wrote:Just north of 500k debt between spouse and I. Roughly 6-7% (don't pay attn because it doesn't matter).
PAYE
just refiled the income calculation with my wife since marriage and combined payments for us are $1,500/month (which is well less than our monthly interest accruing)
Payment based on 200k income tax return
Household income now over 300k

To get kicked off PAYE, household income would have to be over 550k now.

What's your long term plan re: PAYE vs. re-fi? Curious as someone entering big law w/ a large debt load as well.

I'm never going to refi. My monthly payments on a 20 year 0% interest schedule would exceed my payments on 300k combined family income on PAYE. At this point my wife and I each have about 20% of PAYE payments made on the way to forgiveness (for at least a good portion of our loans).

If I had 250k of debt just by myself, I'd prolly refi as a 3rd year in biglaw assuming I knew I had a couple years left.

ETA id also do REPAYE if you think you have a good chance of refi-ing to keep the interest down somewhat.

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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Nosso » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:04 am

My IDR recertification application was put "on hold." Does any one know what this means? This is the first time I've recertified. This is with Fedloan Servicing.

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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:12 am

Johann wrote:Cool. I'll put an excel together on Saturday and quote you in.

Off the top of my head, your best short term plan (assuming your goal is to minimize student loan payments) is to max 401k and basically tell your fiancé you're doing the retirement saving for the both of you right now. However once you get married, assuming she doesn't have debt, it's going to be inconvenient for you to file separate taxes since joint taxes will give you a tax benefit with the pretty big income disparity and then your combined incomes will basically be paying the debt down in full eventually.
That makes me lean to REPAYE with a refi in a couple years. But I'll post some numbers later.


Thank you. Forgot to mention that she has $30K in undergrad debt

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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Humbert Humbert » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:00 pm

Johann wrote:
Humbert Humbert wrote:
Johann wrote:Just north of 500k debt between spouse and I. Roughly 6-7% (don't pay attn because it doesn't matter).
PAYE
just refiled the income calculation with my wife since marriage and combined payments for us are $1,500/month (which is well less than our monthly interest accruing)
Payment based on 200k income tax return
Household income now over 300k

To get kicked off PAYE, household income would have to be over 550k now.

What's your long term plan re: PAYE vs. re-fi? Curious as someone entering big law w/ a large debt load as well.

I'm never going to refi. My monthly payments on a 20 year 0% interest schedule would exceed my payments on 300k combined family income on PAYE. At this point my wife and I each have about 20% of PAYE payments made on the way to forgiveness (for at least a good portion of our loans).

If I had 250k of debt just by myself, I'd prolly refi as a 3rd year in biglaw assuming I knew I had a couple years left.

ETA id also do REPAYE if you think you have a good chance of refi-ing to keep the interest down somewhat.

Can you explain the reasoning behind re-financing after a few years (vs. just riding out PAYE) for someone in this boat?

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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:30 pm

3L here. I borrowed total tuition from parents for 1L and 2L (roughly 80k). I will use SA $ to help pay for 3l and borrow another 20k. I also have zero cost of living expenses (living with parents). So total debt roughly 100k but no timeline and no interest. Any idea on what mortgage I can afford? I will be making market (180k + bonus).

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Johann
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Johann » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Johann wrote:Cool. I'll put an excel together on Saturday and quote you in.

Off the top of my head, your best short term plan (assuming your goal is to minimize student loan payments) is to max 401k and basically tell your fiancé you're doing the retirement saving for the both of you right now. However once you get married, assuming she doesn't have debt, it's going to be inconvenient for you to file separate taxes since joint taxes will give you a tax benefit with the pretty big income disparity and then your combined incomes will basically be paying the debt down in full eventually.
That makes me lean to REPAYE with a refi in a couple years. But I'll post some numbers later.


Thank you. Forgot to mention that she has $30K in undergrad debt

Image
the first column is your current PAYE payment if you contribute all your extra money to your 401k based on your current budget. your current budget is based on the monthly expenses you listed plus a loan payment

the second column is your PAYE monthly payment next year when your salary goes up and you contribute all your remaining money to your 401k. you can only contribute 18k but i should have just moved the remainder into the HSA to get your salary down.

the third column is once you get married based on your combined budget and still the same rent. this is based on her poorer salary, so this would go up if she made the teacher salary money you discussed.

the next 2 columns show what your payments could be if you were very aggressive with 401K and HSA. the dollar figure ive highlighted is what youd need to get your monthly budget down to in order to max both 401k and hSA for you both.

the last 2 columns show what a refi-ed payment would look like on 10 year 4% interest and 20 year 6% interest, so you are coming out significantly ahead to just do PAYE/REPAYE at least until your salaries increase more (depending on how agressively you game the income based repayment).

as to my free money comment, you talked about your monthly payment being 600-700. as you can see, your monthly payment can gett about $300/month lower and $3600 per year if you put that money into your 401k/HSA. that's what i mean by "creating" free money. put the money into the HSA/401k up front and you (1) won't have to pay taxes on it (so it maximizes your take home percentage), and (2) won't have to pay student loans on it.

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Johann
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Johann » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:54 pm

Humbert Humbert wrote:
Johann wrote:
Humbert Humbert wrote:
Johann wrote:Just north of 500k debt between spouse and I. Roughly 6-7% (don't pay attn because it doesn't matter).
PAYE
just refiled the income calculation with my wife since marriage and combined payments for us are $1,500/month (which is well less than our monthly interest accruing)
Payment based on 200k income tax return
Household income now over 300k

To get kicked off PAYE, household income would have to be over 550k now.

What's your long term plan re: PAYE vs. re-fi? Curious as someone entering big law w/ a large debt load as well.

I'm never going to refi. My monthly payments on a 20 year 0% interest schedule would exceed my payments on 300k combined family income on PAYE. At this point my wife and I each have about 20% of PAYE payments made on the way to forgiveness (for at least a good portion of our loans).

If I had 250k of debt just by myself, I'd prolly refi as a 3rd year in biglaw assuming I knew I had a couple years left.

ETA id also do REPAYE if you think you have a good chance of refi-ing to keep the interest down somewhat.

Can you explain the reasoning behind re-financing after a few years (vs. just riding out PAYE) for someone in this boat?


the reasoning would be looking at your monthly payment on a refi compared to PAYE with a potential tax bomb at the end. its about how much certainty you want and what your downside risk is. i.e. if youve been a corporate/tax/non-litigator for 4 years in biglaw, chances are youll flame out to a 150k job still. it may be worth it to lock in an X/month payment then rather than paying 15 more years of 10% of 120k/ year (12K) to loans and then still have a potential tax bomb. the incentives of PAYE are to max cash flow at the beginning of your career for time value of investments / some assets. once that has been done (and its easiest to max cash flow early on in PAYE because your tax returns are the lowest Summer SA and stub year), the upside of mxxing cash flow doesnt really exist as much as it did because your debt payments are still like at least 1k/month and your refi debt paymnet might only be 2x that (and youve already got a lot of assets doing work for you ~100k if you save super aggressively in 2 years of biglaw).

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Johann
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Johann » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:3L here. I borrowed total tuition from parents for 1L and 2L (roughly 80k). I will use SA $ to help pay for 3l and borrow another 20k. I also have zero cost of living expenses (living with parents). So total debt roughly 100k but no timeline and no interest. Any idea on what mortgage I can afford? I will be making market (180k + bonus).

since you borrowed from parents, they wont even know about your debt so you can probably afford about a 180*3.5 house right away assuming average credit.

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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:36 pm

Johann wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Johann wrote:Cool. I'll put an excel together on Saturday and quote you in.

Off the top of my head, your best short term plan (assuming your goal is to minimize student loan payments) is to max 401k and basically tell your fiancé you're doing the retirement saving for the both of you right now. However once you get married, assuming she doesn't have debt, it's going to be inconvenient for you to file separate taxes since joint taxes will give you a tax benefit with the pretty big income disparity and then your combined incomes will basically be paying the debt down in full eventually.
That makes me lean to REPAYE with a refi in a couple years. But I'll post some numbers later.


Thank you. Forgot to mention that she has $30K in undergrad debt

Image
the first column is your current PAYE payment if you contribute all your extra money to your 401k based on your current budget. your current budget is based on the monthly expenses you listed plus a loan payment

the second column is your PAYE monthly payment next year when your salary goes up and you contribute all your remaining money to your 401k. you can only contribute 18k but i should have just moved the remainder into the HSA to get your salary down.

the third column is once you get married based on your combined budget and still the same rent. this is based on her poorer salary, so this would go up if she made the teacher salary money you discussed.

the next 2 columns show what your payments could be if you were very aggressive with 401K and HSA. the dollar figure ive highlighted is what youd need to get your monthly budget down to in order to max both 401k and hSA for you both.

the last 2 columns show what a refi-ed payment would look like on 10 year 4% interest and 20 year 6% interest, so you are coming out significantly ahead to just do PAYE/REPAYE at least until your salaries increase more (depending on how agressively you game the income based repayment).

as to my free money comment, you talked about your monthly payment being 600-700. as you can see, your monthly payment can gett about $300/month lower and $3600 per year if you put that money into your 401k/HSA. that's what i mean by "creating" free money. put the money into the HSA/401k up front and you (1) won't have to pay taxes on it (so it maximizes your take home percentage), and (2) won't have to pay student loans on it.



Wow. Thanks so much for doing this. You definitely broke this down in a way that's easy to understand.

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Johann
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Johann » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:08 pm

And to tailor the advice to your goals, if you're worried about maxing 401k and not saving for a down payment, you can use your 401k as a loan for a down payment. You should investigate that.

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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:47 pm

Johann wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3L here. I borrowed total tuition from parents for 1L and 2L (roughly 80k). I will use SA $ to help pay for 3l and borrow another 20k. I also have zero cost of living expenses (living with parents). So total debt roughly 100k but no timeline and no interest. Any idea on what mortgage I can afford? I will be making market (180k + bonus).

since you borrowed from parents, they wont even know about your debt so you can probably afford about a 180*3.5 house right away assuming average credit.


I have great credit (above 800). Do you think I could afford 850/900k house assuming my SO makes around 60-70k

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Johann
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Johann » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Johann wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3L here. I borrowed total tuition from parents for 1L and 2L (roughly 80k). I will use SA $ to help pay for 3l and borrow another 20k. I also have zero cost of living expenses (living with parents). So total debt roughly 100k but no timeline and no interest. Any idea on what mortgage I can afford? I will be making market (180k + bonus).

since you borrowed from parents, they wont even know about your debt so you can probably afford about a 180*3.5 house right away assuming average credit.


I have great credit (above 800). Do you think I could afford 850/900k house assuming my SO makes around 60-70k

i dont know what you mean by afford. do you mean get a mortgage. or do you mean actually afford the monthly payments. gonna depend on real estate taxes and HOAs what a 850k mortgage looks like. youll prolly need some down payment money on a mortgage that big (theres prolly better resources on the internet rather than me for this). a 750k mortgage (850k price -100k down) is like 5,400/month which is probably affordable on a 250k household income.

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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Nebby » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:59 am

Anyone had their loans transferred to FedLoan? I submitted my first PSLF form to make a record of my participation in the program on the off chance it gets repealed and I can join the class-action arguing detrimental reliance, and my loans were transferred from Great Lakes to FedLoan. However, the loans seemed to have disappeared. An account was created at FedLoan for me and I was able to set it up online, but there's no actual loans associated with the account. Chance that it got lost in paperwork and I'm debt free? :mrgreen:

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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:26 am

Yeah, when you certify for PSLF you get switched. Pretty sure they're going to find the stuff eventually - it takes them a little while to get things in place. They're not the speediest/most efficient (I haven't run into problems with them, though others have; just that they're kind of slow.)

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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:36 am

(forgive me if something like this has been covered, with 140+ pages here, it was too many to read through).

Class of 2015 grad. I had about $150k in loans. I refinanced my loans shortly after graduating (Nov 2015). Refi rate is fixed at 2.75% for 10 years. Payments are real high, but over the life of the loan, I really am not going to be paying much interest.

I've been clerking for the past two years and am planning on going biglaw after. Trying to figure out the smartest way to bank my signing bonus and extra salary I am going to be making. Due to the high payments on my loan, I've basically been living paycheck to paycheck these past two years and don't have any savings built up.

The way I see it is, because 2.75% is so cheap, I'm better off just taking the entire 10 years to pay off my loan without prepaying any of it. As long as I can make my money work more for me, I'll be ahead. Even if I don't make my money work more for me, it's low enough that I won't sweat it and I'd rather have the piece of mind of having some liquidity built up. I was just curious if this is the right method of thinking?

I currently have a interest bearing savings account that is offering 1% interest. I figure I can start to build up some savings in there. I was also figuring I'd start maxing out my IRA/401k, because I haven't been putting anything away towards retirement. Then I'm thinking I can diversify between bonds and ETFs.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Danger Zone » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:56 am

Your plan is sound. Make sure you also max your backdoor Roth contributions as well. Don't pay that student loan debt down any faster than is required.

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Re: Student loan payments: get advice and actual numbers here

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:13 am

Danger Zone wrote:Your plan is sound. Make sure you also max your backdoor Roth contributions as well. Don't pay that student loan debt down any faster than is required.


Thanks - that's what I was thinking, I just wanted some reassurance. Also, I'm sure a lot of people have a wide array of views on Roth vs traditional, but I'm leaning towards going traditional. I was planning on backdooring it before the end of the year once I've got some additional capital.




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