Possibility of a job/paid internship in England?

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mt90128
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Possibility of a job/paid internship in England?

Postby mt90128 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:59 am

Hey,

I'm hoping that I posted this to the right section of the forum. I am currently a 1L at top 30 law school and am wondering about the possibility of going to England for work this summer or beyond. The basic scenario is this: My girlfriend is going to a 3 year phd program in York starting in March. I have always been enticed by the potential opportunity of studying in England (really interested in the barister/solicitor system, contrasts with US law, international law etc.) and am wondering what means I have to travel there as part of my law degree. I am aware that certain schools such as U. of Iowa offer ABA accredited programs in England, but it does not seem as if I could do this before 2L spring (please correct me if I am wrong though...). I was wondering if there are any paid summer internships available in England that would be amenable to taking an American law student, similar to firm jobs here in the US. I know certain finance companies like Goldman Sachs hire people for London offices, but these internships are not specific to law students and I would guess that you need a strong background in finance (though maybe they would be interested in taking someone in a legal advising capacity?). I do have a strong science background and would love to do something related to International IP Law or International Environmental Law. Basically, I would be interested in anything that puts me in England for an extended period of time, and/or opens up some potential job opportunities there. Really hoping that something like this exists, but there seems to be a paucity of information on such programs, so I am reaching out to the TLS community to see if anyone knows of anything that would suit my purpose. Paid would be nice, but I would be willing to do something for credit--such as a shadowing a barrister, classes, etc--so long as it furthers my career goals and puts me in the area for an extended period of time. Any advice would be much appreciated! Thanks.

treeey86
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Re: Possibility of a job/paid internship in England?

Postby treeey86 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:12 pm

As a practicing lawyer who graduated from a top school what you are asking for does not exist.

You entered into a program to learn American Law so you can practice law in America. Most US law schools allow you to spend a semester abroad learning foreign law if you so choose, but that is about the extent of that. It does not make you any more marketable. The American JD will not put you in a position to be in England for an extended period of time.

She decided to do a 3 year program that sends her an entire country away from you. Take a hint bro? LOLz

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northwood
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Re: Possibility of a job/paid internship in England?

Postby northwood » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:23 pm

your girlfriend is a Ph.D candidate which allows her to travel abroad and be, frankly, still relevant in her field. A JD degree allows you to practice law in the country where you learned the information, and the State(s) in the country where you get admitted after taking their bar exam. Thus your realm is much narrower and limited than a Ph.D candidate.

What you are taking about is more of a Ph.D program than a JD program. That being said, its relatively very narrowly tailored ( except criminal justice overview courses, and a sprinkling of upper level jd courses taught at even fewer law schools), so unless you have the resources to spend, you might want to look at the portability of this endeavor ( forgive me for being frank). But if that's what you really want to do, I would suggest you change courses and go that route ( and possibly figure a way to tie it into another academic area)

boxie
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Re: Possibility of a job/paid internship in England?

Postby boxie » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:28 pm

treeey86 wrote:The American JD will not put you in a position to be in England for an extended period of time.

There are positions in London for US attorneys, though they are limited (basically just capital markets, a little M&A) and hard to come by. But firms do run 2L summer associate programs in London - Skadden, Latham, A&O, Freshfields and Clifford Chance all come to mind, and I'm sure others as well. Many of the other big names allow split summers between London and a US office.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Possibility of a job/paid internship in England?

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:17 pm

treeey86 wrote:As a practicing lawyer who graduated from a top school what you are asking for does not exist.

You entered into a program to learn American Law so you can practice law in America. Most US law schools allow you to spend a semester abroad learning foreign law if you so choose, but that is about the extent of that. It does not make you any more marketable. The American JD will not put you in a position to be in England for an extended period of time.

She decided to do a 3 year program that sends her an entire country away from you. Take a hint bro? LOLz


Completely false actually.

Many big firms have foreign programs for students with top grades. A friend of mine did a 3 month summer internship with Blank Rome in France during her 2L summer. Keep in mind that these positions aren't abundant and have an even lower chance of leading to permanent employment, but to say they flat out don't exist is an exaggeration.

treeey86
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Re: Possibility of a job/paid internship in England?

Postby treeey86 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:03 pm

Let me clarify since I forgot how nit picky annoying law students on TLS are: yes you can take classes in Europe 1 semester during your legal education so there is that. And you may be extremely lucky to nab a rare 2L SA in London, but odds are against you due to lack of positions readily available and also he's T30 not T14 (or really T3 is probably the better route to go).

He's also looking for an "extended stay" based on a timeline of his GF being there for 3 years. Nothing is really going to keep you in London for anything more than maybe 2 stints comprising of approximately 2-3 months each. What he is asking is not only challenging for a law student to find, but extremely extremely rare.

As a 1L none of these opportunities really exist until either his 1L summer (which is probably the best shot since employers care less what you do that summer and more about your 1L grades); his 2L summer (if he can get the 2L SA out there); and maybe a semester his third year as a study abroad. You're not going to find many opportunities to spend 6 months - a year out there since his program is an American JD.

Neff
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Re: Possibility of a job/paid internship in England?

Postby Neff » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:42 pm

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Last edited by Neff on Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Neff
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Re: Possibility of a job/paid internship in England?

Postby Neff » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:45 pm

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Last edited by Neff on Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Possibility of a job/paid internship in England?

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:48 pm

The question at the heart of the matter is really why the hell any halfway decent SO is gonna pack up and say "Cya, I'm moving across the ocean for 3 years".

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Green Glass Windows
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Re: Possibility of a job/paid internship in England?

Postby Green Glass Windows » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:51 pm

Neff wrote:If you think your relationship is actually going somewhere, you can cobble together various ways to be in London during the summer (internships) and during the school year (study-abroads). However, most of these will take you away from a conventional legal career in the US. As others have rightly pointed out, lucrative SA positions in London are very rare.


Rare but not unattainable. You have a good reason to want to be there too, better than a lot of people I know with SAs in London, so definitely try. Not being at a T14 is a setback (and it's totally not necessary to be at T3), but I think you've got a shot at one. Obviously come up with backup options, though.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Possibility of a job/paid internship in England?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:59 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:The question at the heart of the matter is really why the hell any halfway decent SO is gonna pack up and say "Cya, I'm moving across the ocean for 3 years".

PhD programs aren't fungible.

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Borhas
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Re: Possibility of a job/paid internship in England?

Postby Borhas » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:37 am

someone from my class graduated with a JD and then enrolled in a Phd program in England. She is a TA or the equivalent so she gets a living wage while she is in the program at least.

God knows why someone would willingly go to England in the first place though.

Gross.

Anonymous User
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Re: Possibility of a job/paid internship in England?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:07 pm

I am at a lower T14 and will be working at a Magic Circle firm in London as an SA next summer, with the expectation/hope of securing a subsequent permanent offer. So it does exist. And I know of non-T14 students that have gotten the same as well. Best thing to do would be to search TLS as there is a decent amount of good information out there. But the availability is very limited. Probably something like 20-25 new US JD's as SA's each year, across all the Magic Circle firms and the handful of US firms that hire directly for their London offices (basically just Latham). And it really does help to be at a T14, more than anything because they actually show up at some of those OCI's (as 4 of them did at mine). Once there you do US securities/cap markets work, period. They all look for the same things: language skills, desire to live abroad, ties to England (preferably but not necessarily), desire to do transactional securities/cap markets work only (no litigators), and solid but not necessarily outrageous grades from a T14 where they happen to recruit. Anything else would be a mass mail hail mary. IF you had all of the above, you MIGHT get lucky outside of a T14 mass mailing, but honestly, even having gotten it, I would NEVER have "getting London" as my plan. It can be an aspiration, and you can go for it, but the severly limited number of spots means you should prioritize more probable possibilities. DPW, for example, will have 4 or 5 times as many American SA's next summer as every single office in London combined. For OP, I know that there is SOME 3L hiring for these offices as they are currently growing, but I hesitate to even mention that since the numbers go from 20-25 to 2-3.




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