OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

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Anonymous User
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OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:03 pm

My options are pretty limited for the summer. I did not secure an SA, but I recently found out that I have another option - the general counsel for a large corporation said that he would take me as a summer intern. I would get in-house and IP experience, which would look a whole lot better than 'nothing' on my resume. This corporation would have to offer credit, rather than a salary, but still, it's a job (and a good one). Naturally, I was pretty pumped about this, until I spoke with career services (at a T14 that will not be named). Apparently, because this is a for-profit company, I cannot get credit for this internship. And because I cannot be an intern for this corporation unless I can get credit, I won't have this job.

I find it absurd that at a school where many people are struggling to secure summer positions, career services would make it difficult to work outside of either a firm or a public interest/government office. This was absolutely my best chance at doing something that would give me good experience this summer. Has anyone else come across this problem, and is there anything at all that I can do about it?

Anonymous User
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:06 pm

First talk to the GC. They might take you without credit.

Other options:
- Independent study with prof about issues you'll deal with
- Enroll at a community college. I know someone had to do that when he interned at a place and they did that for credit

Anonymous User
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:First talk to the GC. They might take you without credit.

Other options:
- Independent study with prof about issues you'll deal with
- Enroll at a community college. I know someone had to do that when he interned at a place and they did that for credit


Unfortunately, it's a company policy to not take interns without credit. But I will definitely look into both of those options - it would have been nice if OCS suggested the independent study option rather than just saying "no", but I'll bring it up when I meet with them.

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Danger Zone
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby Danger Zone » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First talk to the GC. They might take you without credit.

Other options:
- Independent study with prof about issues you'll deal with
- Enroll at a community college. I know someone had to do that when he interned at a place and they did that for credit


Unfortunately, it's a company policy to not take interns without credit. But I will definitely look into both of those options - it would have been nice if OCS suggested the independent study option rather than just saying "no", but I'll bring it up when I meet with them.

If you can't find a way to make this work, you really should complain to a dean that you are familiar with. This is a new low, even for OCS.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:18 pm

Danger Zone wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First talk to the GC. They might take you without credit.

Other options:
- Independent study with prof about issues you'll deal with
- Enroll at a community college. I know someone had to do that when he interned at a place and they did that for credit


Unfortunately, it's a company policy to not take interns without credit. But I will definitely look into both of those options - it would have been nice if OCS suggested the independent study option rather than just saying "no", but I'll bring it up when I meet with them.

If you can't find a way to make this work, you really should complain to a dean that you are familiar with. This is a new low, even for OCS.


This.

Some heat from bad PR would turn around this policy pretty quick for you.

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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:20 pm

Danger Zone wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First talk to the GC. They might take you without credit.

Other options:
- Independent study with prof about issues you'll deal with
- Enroll at a community college. I know someone had to do that when he interned at a place and they did that for credit


Unfortunately, it's a company policy to not take interns without credit. But I will definitely look into both of those options - it would have been nice if OCS suggested the independent study option rather than just saying "no", but I'll bring it up when I meet with them.

If you can't find a way to make this work, you really should complain to a dean that you are familiar with. This is a new low, even for OCS.


Is it an OCS policy or is it a school policy? If it's a school policy you're probably SOL

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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it an OCS policy or is it a school policy? If it's a school policy you're probably SOL


OP here. Honestly, I don't know. The woman I spoke with from OCS just said it's a policy. I am meeting with OCS tomorrow so I will certainly clarify (because absolutely nothing on the school's site addresses this). I can't see why an independent study wouldn't be an option, but then again, the opinion seemingly held by the majority of career counselors at my school is government or (literally) nothing. So frustrating.

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Danger Zone
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby Danger Zone » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it an OCS policy or is it a school policy? If it's a school policy you're probably SOL

Deans should bend over backwards to ensure students get good jerbs, even if it goes against "school policy."

rad lulz
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby rad lulz » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:33 pm

Danger Zone wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First talk to the GC. They might take you without credit.

Other options:
- Independent study with prof about issues you'll deal with
- Enroll at a community college. I know someone had to do that when he interned at a place and they did that for credit


Unfortunately, it's a company policy to not take interns without credit. But I will definitely look into both of those options - it would have been nice if OCS suggested the independent study option rather than just saying "no", but I'll bring it up when I meet with them.

If you can't find a way to make this work, you really should complain to a dean that you are familiar with. This is a new low, even for OCS.

I don't think this is that uncommon

Pretty sure my school had a similar "no credit when working for a for profit" policy

Sorry though op that sucks

Anonymous User
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:34 pm

Danger Zone wrote:Deans should bend over backwards to ensure students get good jerbs, even if it goes against "school policy."


I absolutely agree.

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rinkrat19
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:35 pm

That's bullshit on your school's part. NU has summer practicum classes (remote and in Chicago) for judicial, public interest, and corporate counsel jobs. So no matter where you're working (besides at a firm), you can get credit.

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soj
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby soj » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:45 pm

just another example of laughably and bewilderingly out-of-touch legal academics and administrators who set school policies for things like externship credit. if there's only one field where the saying "those who can't do teach" is true, it's law.

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jbiresq
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby jbiresq » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:49 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:That's bullshit on your school's part. NU has summer practicum classes (remote and in Chicago) for judicial, public interest, and corporate counsel jobs. So no matter where you're working (besides at a firm), you can get credit.


Dude at UChi they won't give you credit for any internship.

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bk1
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby bk1 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:51 pm

Not paying you seems like it would violate labor laws.

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soj
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby soj » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:55 pm

i think even schools that give credit for externships force students to attend a special seminar to receive credit. because classroom instruction is so valuable! i had one dean explain this as a measure of quality control. only a law school dean could spew so much self-serving bullshit.

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rinkrat19
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:58 pm

soj wrote:i think even schools that give credit for externships force students to attend a special seminar to receive credit. because classroom instruction is so valuable! i had one dean explain this as a measure of quality control. only a law school dean could spew so much self-serving bullshit.

We had 3-hour weekly teleconference class meetings (during which I web surfed and ate dinner), and a 12-pg paper. Easy 4 credit A. :P

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BarbellDreams
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:23 pm

soj wrote:i think even schools that give credit for externships force students to attend a special seminar to receive credit. because classroom instruction is so valuable! i had one dean explain this as a measure of quality control. only a law school dean could spew so much self-serving bullshit.


I had to write a 40 page journal about my experience to get credit. I literally copied and pasted some of the work I did with names redacted into my "journal" and it seemed to fly I guess given that I have my diploma now.

TigerDude
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby TigerDude » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:38 pm

It's not just bullshit. Unpaid internships are massively supportive of more wealthy students who can afford to not be paid for a summer.

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kalvano
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby kalvano » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:56 pm

The company has to have you get credit or they are required to pay you. I would lose my shit with OCS about forcing you to choose between a decent summer opportunity and the company complying with federal wage laws.

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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby rad lulz » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:17 pm

kalvano wrote:The company has to have you get credit or they are required to pay you. I would lose my shit with OCS about forcing you to choose between a decent summer opportunity and the company complying with federal wage laws.

Per the recent Conde Nast decision, whether op receives credit is not determinative of whether he is an intern or an employee. You can be an intern and receiving credit and still may be categorized as an employee who deserves a minimum wage depending on te work you do.

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bk1
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby bk1 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:27 pm

rad lulz wrote:
kalvano wrote:The company has to have you get credit or they are required to pay you. I would lose my shit with OCS about forcing you to choose between a decent summer opportunity and the company complying with federal wage laws.

Per the recent Conde Nast decision, whether op receives credit is not determinative of whether he is an intern or an employee. You can be an intern and receiving credit and still may be categorized as an employee who deserves a minimum wage depending on te work you do.

This. Though of course other courts may interpret things differently.

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kalvano
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby kalvano » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:29 pm

rad lulz wrote:
kalvano wrote:The company has to have you get credit or they are required to pay you. I would lose my shit with OCS about forcing you to choose between a decent summer opportunity and the company complying with federal wage laws.

Per the recent Conde Nast decision, whether op receives credit is not determinative of whether he is an intern or an employee. You can be an intern and receiving credit and still may be categorized as an employee who deserves a minimum wage depending on te work you do.


Interesting. The DOL formal opinion on the issue states that class credit is acceptable in lieu of compensation, but that's older. It's probably what the company is going off of, and it's probably still a good safe haven for the company, who actually sound like they are trying to do the right thing.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:30 pm

To be fair it seems like it would be easier for an in-house intern to qualify as an intern who does not need to be paid than a law clerk/SA. That third prong on "The work done must be of an educational nature predominantly beneficial to the intern instead of the employer" (paraphrased obviously) is basically impossible for law firms to meet but seems much easier to do with an in-house internship, at least based on what a few classmates who did in-house internships told me about their summer work.

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kalvano
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby kalvano » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:31 pm

Regardless, I think the company is trying to do things correctly and OCS is being obstinate and jerks.

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bk1
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Re: OCS doesn't want me to have a job...

Postby bk1 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:37 pm

kalvano wrote:Regardless, I think the company is trying to do things correctly and OCS is being obstinate and jerks.

I don't think this is OCS's fault. I suspect the curriculum dean or w/e is the one in charge of whether students can get credit for Y job.




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