What to think about V100

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Hipster but Athletic
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Re: What to think about V100

Postby Hipster but Athletic » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:00 pm

"First world problems" is the dumbest and strangest meme ever.

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Re: What to think about V100

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:23 pm

OP -- I was also worried about this -- my grades/school felt good enough for better, didn't get exactly what I wanted, etc. The only reason I cared was because I wondered how it might affect exit opportunities.

My time as a summer -- dreamland though it may be -- changed this a lot. I spoke to as many associates as I could -- it seemed that just as many people were getting contacted by recruiters, or clients to work in-house, as would be as a V10. In fact, because of the rep of one of our practice areas, it seemed like with respect to that practice area, we actually had a leg up. Additionally, though "smaller firm = more substantive experience" can often be flame, I found out from speaking to associates and overhearing conversations that it was often true in their cases. Clients are demanding, and if the partner on the project is speaking with another client, by necessity you may just end up speaking regularly with that client. Finally, I did indeed hear a bunch of stories of people lateraling to (much) higher Vault ranked firms, including V5s and V10s -- so if it's TLS common knowledge that this is impossible, it should maybe be reconsidered. Granted, you may really have to gun hard for it, but I don't think it's out of the question if the firm lifestyle is really something you want to stick with.

It's all a matter of what you put into your job, what you want to get out of it, and the individual opportunities that come your way. In terms of prestige -- yeah, whatever. But in terms of what it means practically for your career, I would just keep an eye out for where the opportunities are -- like sealocust says -- look at the practice group rankings. If you're a 2nd year litigator at Stroock, your exit options might be different from someone who is in a corporate group that is highly regarded at a lower V100.

I imagine that a lot of what goes on in this board with respect to the snobbishness is not all too different from what's going on with your friends in real life. We will all be working the same ridiculous hours and (with the exception of Boies and Wachtell or whatever) making the same amount of money.

-3L

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: What to think about V100

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:35 pm

OP, I feel you in that I can imagine how you're feeling. I agree with what others have said, though: at the end of the day, life at a lot of V20s will be hellish, and you may have worse exit options. Even if you are at HYS you are very lucky to have a V100 offer, and there are people in your shoes who would kill to trade places with you.

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Re: What to think about V100

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:52 pm

OP. I understand what you are going through. I thought I under-performed at 2L OCI and accepted an offer at a V100. I was actually disappointed with the summer experience for a few reasons. 1) no matter what others say, we do operate in a prestige oriented industry and when you say where you work, people import a lot of preconceived notions. If working at a V20 means people (rightly or wrongly) assume something about your law school performance, your work ethic, your whatever, then this is bound to make the V20 attractive to law students. 2) many of the things I had heard about the "lower-ranked" firms appeared not to pan out from what I saw and what I heard from junior associates with respect to early responsibility, job security, lifestyle.

For these and other reasons I 3L OCI'd to a V10 and I'm happy I did. It's not an easy or common path and it was only possible because my grades significantly increased 2L year. So I say, work on your resume/grades, go kick ass at the V100 and hope that you love it and want to return. If you don't, then see what else is out there with the understanding that 3L OCI is really tough. But don't feel too bad about wondering if you are starting in the right place for your career goals. That is a legit question and one that, sadly, should not be put to rest with "well, at least I did better than most law students."

mr.hands
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Re: What to think about V100

Postby mr.hands » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP. I understand what you are going through. I thought I under-performed at 2L OCI and accepted an offer at a V100. I was actually disappointed with the summer experience for a few reasons. 1) no matter what others say, we do operate in a prestige oriented industry and when you say where you work, people import a lot of preconceived notions. If working at a V20 means people (rightly or wrongly) assume something about your law school performance, your work ethic, your whatever, then this is bound to make the V20 attractive to law students. 2) many of the things I had heard about the "lower-ranked" firms appeared not to pan out from what I saw and what I heard from junior associates with respect to early responsibility, job security, lifestyle.

For these and other reasons I 3L OCI'd to a V10 and I'm happy I did. It's not an easy or common path and it was only possible because my grades significantly increased 2L year. So I say, work on your resume/grades, go kick ass at the V100 and hope that you love it and want to return. If you don't, then see what else is out there with the understanding that 3L OCI is really tough. But don't feel too bad about wondering if you are starting in the right place for your career goals. That is a legit question and one that, sadly, should not be put to rest with "well, at least I did better than most law students."


You sound like an ass. Also, Vault rankings mean nothing outside of NYC and basically nothing in NYC. Get over yourself

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Law Sauce
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Re: What to think about V100

Postby Law Sauce » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:19 pm

mr.hands wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP. I understand what you are going through. I thought I under-performed at 2L OCI and accepted an offer at a V100. I was actually disappointed with the summer experience for a few reasons. 1) no matter what others say, we do operate in a prestige oriented industry and when you say where you work, people import a lot of preconceived notions. If working at a V20 means people (rightly or wrongly) assume something about your law school performance, your work ethic, your whatever, then this is bound to make the V20 attractive to law students. 2) many of the things I had heard about the "lower-ranked" firms appeared not to pan out from what I saw and what I heard from junior associates with respect to early responsibility, job security, lifestyle.

For these and other reasons I 3L OCI'd to a V10 and I'm happy I did. It's not an easy or common path and it was only possible because my grades significantly increased 2L year. So I say, work on your resume/grades, go kick ass at the V100 and hope that you love it and want to return. If you don't, then see what else is out there with the understanding that 3L OCI is really tough. But don't feel too bad about wondering if you are starting in the right place for your career goals. That is a legit question and one that, sadly, should not be put to rest with "well, at least I did better than most law students."


You sound like an ass. Also, Vault rankings mean nothing outside of NYC and basically nothing in NYC. Get over yourself


This is a silly response. People definitely feel this way and go this route

mr.hands
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Re: What to think about V100

Postby mr.hands » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:49 pm

Law Sauce wrote:
mr.hands wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP. I understand what you are going through. I thought I under-performed at 2L OCI and accepted an offer at a V100. I was actually disappointed with the summer experience for a few reasons. 1) no matter what others say, we do operate in a prestige oriented industry and when you say where you work, people import a lot of preconceived notions. If working at a V20 means people (rightly or wrongly) assume something about your law school performance, your work ethic, your whatever, then this is bound to make the V20 attractive to law students. 2) many of the things I had heard about the "lower-ranked" firms appeared not to pan out from what I saw and what I heard from junior associates with respect to early responsibility, job security, lifestyle.

For these and other reasons I 3L OCI'd to a V10 and I'm happy I did. It's not an easy or common path and it was only possible because my grades significantly increased 2L year. So I say, work on your resume/grades, go kick ass at the V100 and hope that you love it and want to return. If you don't, then see what else is out there with the understanding that 3L OCI is really tough. But don't feel too bad about wondering if you are starting in the right place for your career goals. That is a legit question and one that, sadly, should not be put to rest with "well, at least I did better than most law students."


You sound like an ass. Also, Vault rankings mean nothing outside of NYC and basically nothing in NYC. Get over yourself


This is a silly response. People definitely feel this way and go this route


Yeah, that doesn't mean that Vault rankings are worth anything

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bwv812
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Re: What to think about V100

Postby bwv812 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:14 am

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Last edited by bwv812 on Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: What to think about V100

Postby rad lulz » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:28 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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thesealocust
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Re: What to think about V100

Postby thesealocust » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:32 am

bwv812 wrote:
mr.hands wrote:Yeah, that doesn't mean that Vault rankings are worth anything

Sure it does. Vault measures prestige. Guess who cares about prestige? Lawyers! Other lawyers will judge you on the Vault ranking of the firm you worked at, just like they judge you on the law school you went to. Substantive things like school+grades and firm+practice area might be better criteria, but I'm not sure that's the way things actually happen.


No. Lawyers very well may judge you on their perception of the prestige of the firm that you work for, but they absolutely won't judge you on the vault rank of your firm. In broad strokes it has some truth (Cravath really is more prestigious than Strook) but it misses the mark far more often than it hits it. It kind of holds up if you look at the list as "relative strength of NYC M&A practices" or "Help me identify a non-exclusive list of the best small handful of firms in any regional market" but that's about it. This is because that's all its methodology could possible hope it to accomplish.

On top of that, lawyers just don't care about/follow the vault rankings. It's a guide for people who seek jobs.

Lastly, even if prestige could be quantified in a way that presented meaningful data, vault's methodology sure as hell isn't it.

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Re: What to think about V100

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:57 pm

OP here.

Anonymous User wrote: OP. I understand what you are going through. I thought I under-performed at 2L OCI and accepted an offer at a V100. I was actually disappointed with the summer experience for a few reasons. 1) no matter what others say, we do operate in a prestige oriented industry and when you say where you work, people import a lot of preconceived notions. If working at a V20 means people (rightly or wrongly) assume something about your law school performance, your work ethic, your whatever, then this is bound to make the V20 attractive to law students. 2) many of the things I had heard about the "lower-ranked" firms appeared not to pan out from what I saw and what I heard from junior associates with respect to early responsibility, job security, lifestyle.

For these and other reasons I 3L OCI'd to a V10 and I'm happy I did. It's not an easy or common path and it was only possible because my grades significantly increased 2L year. So I say, work on your resume/grades, go kick ass at the V100 and hope that you love it and want to return. If you don't, then see what else is out there with the understanding that 3L OCI is really tough. But don't feel too bad about wondering if you are starting in the right place for your career goals. That is a legit question and one that, sadly, should not be put to rest with "well, at least I did better than most law students."


I really appreciate this response, thank you. even if it is playing devil's advocate. its good to hear both sides. I guess it largely depends on how much I like my firm and if I think there is a practice area there which I can excel in and grow with. its nice to hear that my thoughts aren't completely irrational.

Anonymous User wrote: It's all a matter of what you put into your job, what you want to get out of it, and the individual opportunities that come your way. In terms of prestige -- yeah, whatever. But in terms of what it means practically for your career, I would just keep an eye out for where the opportunities are -- like sealocust says -- look at the practice group rankings. If you're a 2nd year litigator at Stroock, your exit options might be different from someone who is in a corporate group that is highly regarded at a lower V100.


Not sure I understand what this last part is saying.

Also, I find it amusing that most people in this thread are saying "vault rankings don't mean anything" but then using the same V100 firm as the stereotypical example of a low-ranked vault firm that is not good.

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thesealocust
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Re: What to think about V100

Postby thesealocust » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:49 pm

That's because prestige isn't irrelevant, the vault rankings are just an awful proxy for prestige - and close to all the way to useless between regions and/or practice areas.

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Re: What to think about V100

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: It's all a matter of what you put into your job, what you want to get out of it, and the individual opportunities that come your way. In terms of prestige -- yeah, whatever. But in terms of what it means practically for your career, I would just keep an eye out for where the opportunities are -- like sealocust says -- look at the practice group rankings. If you're a 2nd year litigator at Stroock, your exit options might be different from someone who is in a corporate group that is highly regarded at a lower V100.


Not sure I understand what this last part is saying.

Also, I find it amusing that most people in this thread are saying "vault rankings don't mean anything" but then using the same V100 firm as the stereotypical example of a low-ranked vault firm that is not good.


It means that your exit options will be conditioned to a greater degree by the strength of your practice area in the firm than the overall prestige of the firm, and will in no case be conditioned by the vault ranking of your firm (except insofar as the vault rankings *very* loosely correlate with the overall prestige of a firm).

Also, off the top of my head I can think of friends at my school who turned down v5 offers for jobs at vault firms 100, 98, 65, 54, 47, 42, 34, etc.

In fact, Patterson Belknap (sitting pretty at v100) is one of the more difficult jobs to land and is apparently a fantastic place to work.

gnuwheels
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Re: What to think about V100

Postby gnuwheels » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:54 am

what i learned ITT: V100 distinctions are meaningless. unless you're Stroock.




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