Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:02 am

[OP]

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Awesome thanks. I do have a UG life sciences background and also some tech work, but have also gotten that question in all of my interviews (no jobs though :lol: ). I'll try to preempt it going forward.

Any memorable responses to "why our firm?" A couple interviewers asked this question even after admitting "they're all the same." For big firms, I've concentrated on the class of clients they attract, the number of options, and reputation. For boutiques, I've geared towards being attracted to the specialization/focus, and the communal/team feeling.


Protip: you should generally run from all the firms that say "they're all the same." They're not. The firms that say this are usually trying to compensate for being particularly sucky in one thing or another. That said, just focus on getting ANY job first before you get picky.


This is bad advice. Most associates view their firm as being relatively similar to other firms, rightfully so: all firms apply the same business model to achieve generally the same result. The differences are in personalities, which are pronounced in some firms whose reputations precede them, but generally more subtle in others. The key differences are in ways that are not really relevant to a junior associate, or at least shouldn't be.
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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:07 am

[OP]

Anonymous User wrote:Awesome thanks. I do have a UG life sciences background and also some tech work, but have also gotten that question in all of my interviews (no jobs though :lol: ). I'll try to preempt it going forward.


If you're having trouble getting a job with a science background, make sure you're interviewing at the right firms in the right market. My office does almost all EE/CS type work -- we have no experts in life science -- and so turn away good life science candidates on the basis that they won't be happy with us. Don't trust a firm's website or office's website for this, instead look to see the bios of the attorneys in the office. If you don't see life science, that office doesn't do it.

A firm may sell you on the "we cross-staff between office" line, but generally, you don't want to be the sole associate in an office who doesn't work with any of the partners in that office. HR decisions are local, usually.

Any memorable responses to "why our firm?" A couple interviewers asked this question even after admitting "they're all the same." For big firms, I've concentrated on the class of clients they attract, the number of options, and reputation. For boutiques, I've geared towards being attracted to the specialization/focus, and the communal/team feeling.


See my response above. Class of clients, etc., that's all BS. Give me a line from our recruiting site so I know you did your research -- there's always buzzwords a firm wants to hear. Reputation and prestige -- i.e., kissing up -- will sadly play well, as well.

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:12 am

[OP]

Anonymous User wrote:I'm in the middle of applying to law schools right now, I was wondering if firms prefer to hire from specific schools for IP law, for example Boalt? And I majored in life sciences, biochemistry to be more specific in undergrad, would it be harder for me to get a job in IP litigation since I didn't go the engineering or CS route? By the way, thanks for doing this!


Good luck! Boalt is a great school for IP. Focus on that first. A science degree + a good law school and you'll be golden. You're lightyears ahead of where I was if you're already looking for the right firm and haven't even started your 1L year yet.

Once you get to law school, see my most recent response. Basically, there's plenty of life sciences work out there. You just need to find the right firm and right market. Look for offices that have a lot of junior associates with similar backgrounds. TBH, I'm afraid of biochemistry work -- as are most of the geeks in my office -- and so we avoid it like the plague. Assume partners are the same way. It's a very niche field and very difficult to understand without the right background, and so you'll be at a great advantage.

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Re: [OP] Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:[OP]

Shoot, this will be hard to read since everybody is posting anon. I will try to point out that I'm the OP in the subject when answering.

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for doing this! What market? What type of firm? (GP firm? Big boutique? Smaller boutique?) What are the hours like? Better or worse than non-IP litigation associates?


GP, V20.

My hours fluctuate wildly. When I'm in trial or preparing for trial, we're talking 200-300 hr/month. When I'm not, I'm usually laying low and keeping in the 100-150 range, if that. I avoid the office in downtime months (like right now), and that seems to be the generally accepted approach. I actually really like this lifestyle -- when I'm busy, I prefer to be really busy. And when I'm not, I prefer to have a lot of freedom (compared with 9-6 office hours).


how are you keeping ur hours generally at 100-150?? no ITC work i assume then...

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:[OP]
If you're having trouble getting a job with a science background, make sure you're interviewing at the right firms in the right market. My office does almost all EE/CS type work -- we have no experts in life science -- and so turn away good life science candidates on the basis that they won't be happy with us. Don't trust a firm's website or office's website for this, instead look to see the bios of the attorneys in the office. If you don't see life science, that office doesn't do it.


Alright thanks. I've somewhat attributed my struggles to trying to downplay my science background for fear of being quizzed on it, but I'm not sure if that's an issue or not. I get little-man syndrome to a degree going into callbacks against Ph.D's and even MAs in bio or similar. Not only did I do poorly in my major, I don't remember very much from it :lol: . Still, I can pick up science journals and work my way through the technology no problem --as such, I tend to talk about having a baseline understanding of science in general, enough to what I believe will make me potent in the field. Should I instead focus more on my lab work and talk about it in more detail?

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby BullShitWithBravado » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:28 pm

Tag

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:55 pm

[OP]

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:[OP]
If you're having trouble getting a job with a science background, make sure you're interviewing at the right firms in the right market. My office does almost all EE/CS type work -- we have no experts in life science -- and so turn away good life science candidates on the basis that they won't be happy with us. Don't trust a firm's website or office's website for this, instead look to see the bios of the attorneys in the office. If you don't see life science, that office doesn't do it.


Alright thanks. I've somewhat attributed my struggles to trying to downplay my science background for fear of being quizzed on it, but I'm not sure if that's an issue or not. I get little-man syndrome to a degree going into callbacks against Ph.D's and even MAs in bio or similar. Not only did I do poorly in my major, I don't remember very much from it :lol: . Still, I can pick up science journals and work my way through the technology no problem --as such, I tend to talk about having a baseline understanding of science in general, enough to what I believe will make me potent in the field. Should I instead focus more on my lab work and talk about it in more detail?


If you're saying anything that is downplaying your talents, you are not selling yourself right. Don't overstate but don't hedge against being quizzed. If it happens, you're probably screwed with that interviewer anyways. That said, I don't know how biochem IP lawyers do it, but I've only quizzed somebody once and felt like a dick for doing so.

Edit: To expand on this, it is pretty obvious you're doing something wrong in interviews if you're struggling to get an IP lit job with a science degree. This isn't that you're unhirable -- I doubt that's true. But you're interviewing wrong. You really need to reevaluate your interview strategy and think about how to put yourself in the best light. If you can't convince me that you believe in yourself, then why would I bother believing in you? If your school has a good career development person, go speak with them and do some mock interviews. Otherwise, look for opportunities to do mock interviews anywhere -- doesn't even need to be law -- because it sounds like you really need to practice and work on this.
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Re: [OP] Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:56 pm

[OP]

Anonymous User wrote:
how are you keeping ur hours generally at 100-150?? no ITC work i assume then...


I go to trial at least once or twice a year.

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby dj_roomba » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:14 pm

Thanks for doing this.
I'm not entire sure how the field works so my questions might be severely misguided:

What is your outlook on the future of patent law?
There seems to be proposed legislation fighting patent trolls. I was under the impression that patent "trolls" were responsible (at least partially) for the "patent boom". If patent trolling is outlawed, would patent law still be a booming field?
Is there still a high demand for patent law and if so, do you see it declining anytime soon? For what reason?

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:37 pm

[OP]

dj_roomba wrote:Thanks for doing this.
I'm not entire sure how the field works so my questions might be severely misguided:

What is your outlook on the future of patent law?
There seems to be proposed legislation fighting patent trolls. I was under the impression that patent "trolls" were responsible (at least partially) for the "patent boom". If patent trolling is outlawed, would patent law still be a booming field?
Is there still a high demand for patent law and if so, do you see it declining anytime soon? For what reason?


I answered this earlier. Scroll up. In short, I am optimistic about the future of patent law because of the growing importance of innovation and intellectual property to modern companies.

I think your impression is reasonable, but not really true. NPEs have distracted from more traditional patent litigation, but in many cases, are a lot of nuisance cases that aren't the high stakes litigations that really drive the market. (Some are, don't get me wrong). I think once NPEs are less of an issue, we will see more of the traditional patent litigation occurring. And keep in mind patent litigators stay busy even when companies don't actually file lawsuits. There's a lot of posturing.

I think it will be harder to be an NPE, but I don't believe it will be outlawed flat out.

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:36 pm

I'm interested in IP litigation, but the firm I'm going to isn't very IP focused and has a very small IP practice group. If I join the IP practice group, do you think I'll be at a significant disadvantage if I later want to lateral or go in-house and have to compete with lawyers from more IP-focused firms?

Thanks!

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:46 pm

[OP]

Anonymous User wrote:I'm interested in IP litigation, but the firm I'm going to isn't very IP focused and has a very small IP practice group. If I join the IP practice group, do you think I'll be at a significant disadvantage if I later want to lateral or go in-house and have to compete with lawyers from more IP-focused firms?

Thanks!


Yes to lateral. It will ultimately depend on your ability to sell the experience you had at the firm as being substantive enough to put you on equal footing with associates at the target firm. You will inevitably take a haircut at most firms.

No idea re in-house. That depends on your connections.

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Re: [OP] Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:[OP]

Anonymous User wrote:
Are you glad you went to a big, upper vault GP firm as opposed to i.e. Finnegan/Fish/Fitzpatrick/Kenyon/Knobbe/Oblon/Sughrue/Blakely/Sterne?


I had callbacks/offers from some of the firms you listed, and I can tell you that facially they seemed pretty similar. Good people, good work, from everything I could tell. I decided to chase prestige because... well, most of you probably know why.

That said, I think that was a good call overall. Big firms mean lots of options -- if I don't like the bosses I work for or the experience I'm getting, I can just try to find different partners and different workstyles; if I don't like the subject matter of the cases, I can look for different stuff.

Prestige also usually means better exit options. Fair or not, that's how it goes. If I lateral out of my firm to a V50 or one of the firms you listed, I'm not likely to get docked a year of seniority. But when we accept laterals, we almost always dock them. It's just how it seems to play out.

It also means it's not long before you get junior associates underneath you. That means you can delegate down and focus on bigger picture stuff, which is immensely rewarding. My friends at smaller firms at my level are still doing work that I don't need to think about anymore (doc review, etc.).

So for now, as an associate, this is a good choice. I get great experience, many options, etc. But towards the middle of my career -- maybe in a few years -- I might start more seriously considering the types of shops you mentioned for better QOL, being a big fish in a small pond, easier to bring in smaller clients because of lower rates, etc.


edit: Sorry, I just saw that you made the choice to go to a small firm. I think you are still in great shape, none of what I said necessarily has to be a detriment, you just need to be aware of it. Try to quickly identify a partner that you will latch on to, make sure he/she has a great reputation and good case load and will take care of you, and then ride it out with him/her. You want intelligence, fairness, loyalty, and good business in a partner, particularly at a small firm where you're not likely to get the chance to defect.


Why do you think I went to a boutique? As it turns out I did, and turned down the litigation-only NYC V30 I summered at. It is prosecution-heavy but they handle litigation as well (and of course counseling, some transactions, and they have a substantial TM practice). It was a tough decision but I made it for location, QoL, diversity of work (not just lit), and the availability of a relatively short track to the "bronze ring" of income partner. The decision haunts me a little but I need to get over it.

I appreciate your comments and input, I know you must be so busy. I have one or two partners in mind at the firm, they are definite stars. Thanks again so much!

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Re: [OP] Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:[OP]

Anonymous User wrote:
how are you keeping ur hours generally at 100-150?? no ITC work i assume then...


I go to trial at least once or twice a year.


icic... im an ee ip associate at a V20 as well and i dont think ANY of our associates go to trial that often. is that common for your firm, or did you develop some special skills and getting staffed on all the cases that go to trial? advice on getting to trial more often?

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Re: [OP] Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous Associate » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:[OP]

Anonymous User wrote:
how are you keeping ur hours generally at 100-150?? no ITC work i assume then...


I go to trial at least once or twice a year.


icic... im an ee ip associate at a V20 as well and i dont think ANY of our associates go to trial that often. is that common for your firm, or did you develop some special skills and getting staffed on all the cases that go to trial? advice on getting to trial more often?


Along these lines, I am a junior patent lit associate (engineering background) at an midlaw(?)-sized V100. Seems like it varies wildly from associate to associate as to who goes to trial more. I went to trial once in my first year, and have two more trials scheduled and likely to actually go to trial in my second year. But other associates are 4th-5th years and have yet to go to trial. Have you seen that at your firm too?

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Re: [OP] Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:52 pm

[OP]

Anonymous Associate wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:[OP]

Anonymous User wrote:
how are you keeping ur hours generally at 100-150?? no ITC work i assume then...


I go to trial at least once or twice a year.


icic... im an ee ip associate at a V20 as well and i dont think ANY of our associates go to trial that often. is that common for your firm, or did you develop some special skills and getting staffed on all the cases that go to trial? advice on getting to trial more often?


Along these lines, I am a junior patent lit associate (engineering background) at an midlaw(?)-sized V100. Seems like it varies wildly from associate to associate as to who goes to trial more. I went to trial once in my first year, and have two more trials scheduled and likely to actually go to trial in my second year. But other associates are 4th-5th years and have yet to go to trial. Have you seen that at your firm too?


Been thinking about this. I'm not really sure. Definitely it varies. We the same thing here, and I don't know if there's a way to win the lottery more often than not. I think once you go to one or two trials, you become pretty valuable (since you've seen things all the way through). So you should try to use that to pitch your skills around the office, if something like that gets you anywhere. I seem to get pulled on to cases when they're near trial or trial-eminent; there's always a big rush for staffing at that point.

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:[OP]

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Awesome thanks. I do have a UG life sciences background and also some tech work, but have also gotten that question in all of my interviews (no jobs though :lol: ). I'll try to preempt it going forward.

Any memorable responses to "why our firm?" A couple interviewers asked this question even after admitting "they're all the same." For big firms, I've concentrated on the class of clients they attract, the number of options, and reputation. For boutiques, I've geared towards being attracted to the specialization/focus, and the communal/team feeling.


Protip: you should generally run from all the firms that say "they're all the same." They're not. The firms that say this are usually trying to compensate for being particularly sucky in one thing or another. That said, just focus on getting ANY job first before you get picky.


This is bad advice. Most associates view their firm as being relatively similar to other firms, rightfully so: all firms apply the same business model to achieve generally the same result. The differences are in personalities, which are pronounced in some firms whose reputations precede them, but generally more subtle in others. The key differences are in ways that are not really relevant to a junior associate, or at least shouldn't be.


Wrong. Different firms undoubtedly have different cultures, billable hours expectations, staffing arrangements, etc. These things matter. Maybe IP litigation is more similar across firms, but you shouldn't extrapolate your experience across every firm because some people (without tech backgrounds) who shoot for IP litigation may end up doing something else. Hell, you can even sort firms just by the "feel" you get during OCI interviews. You can tell that some places have partners who will literally yell at you (whereas I've never heard of this happening at my firm). Just off the top of my head, Quinn is absolutely different from, say, an IP boutique like Fish or Finnegan. Anyone who argues that Quinn is the same experience as other firms with <2000 hour billable expectations is just straight up lying to you.

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:40 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:[OP]

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Awesome thanks. I do have a UG life sciences background and also some tech work, but have also gotten that question in all of my interviews (no jobs though :lol: ). I'll try to preempt it going forward.

Any memorable responses to "why our firm?" A couple interviewers asked this question even after admitting "they're all the same." For big firms, I've concentrated on the class of clients they attract, the number of options, and reputation. For boutiques, I've geared towards being attracted to the specialization/focus, and the communal/team feeling.


Protip: you should generally run from all the firms that say "they're all the same." They're not. The firms that say this are usually trying to compensate for being particularly sucky in one thing or another. That said, just focus on getting ANY job first before you get picky.


This is bad advice. Most associates view their firm as being relatively similar to other firms, rightfully so: all firms apply the same business model to achieve generally the same result. The differences are in personalities, which are pronounced in some firms whose reputations precede them, but generally more subtle in others. The key differences are in ways that are not really relevant to a junior associate, or at least shouldn't be.


Wrong. Different firms undoubtedly have different cultures, billable hours expectations, staffing arrangements, etc. These things matter. Maybe IP litigation is more similar across firms, but you shouldn't extrapolate your experience across every firm because some people (without tech backgrounds) who shoot for IP litigation may end up doing something else. Hell, you can even sort firms just by the "feel" you get during OCI interviews. You can tell that some places have partners who will literally yell at you (whereas I've never heard of this happening at my firm). Just off the top of my head, Quinn is absolutely different from, say, an IP boutique like Fish or Finnegan. Anyone who argues that Quinn is the same experience as other firms with <2000 hour billable expectations is just straight up lying to you.


I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over this. I agree that firms "whose reputations precede them," as I mentioned below, have pronounced personalities. Quinn is definitely one of them.

But if you're sorting firms based on a feel from OCI or a couple interviews, all you're doing is judging 1000 lawyers on the one twerp who could make it to OCI. I certainly think my firm is very similar to many many others in our band (at least as relevant to my level and junior associates), and I don't know why you'd advise people to uniformly "run" from me in an interview because I said so. It's still bad advice.

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over this. I agree that firms "whose reputations precede them," as I mentioned below, have pronounced personalities. Quinn is definitely one of them.

But if you're sorting firms based on a feel from OCI or a couple interviews, all you're doing is judging 1000 lawyers on the one twerp who could make it to OCI. I certainly think my firm is very similar to many many others in our band (at least as relevant to my level and junior associates), and I don't know why you'd advise people to uniformly "run" from me in an interview because I said so. It's still bad advice.


Okay, smart guy, why don't you explain to me the motivation behind an interviewer saying something like "all firms are the same"? The only rational reason why someone would say this is to gloss over or distract people from aspects of his/her own firm that make the firm sub par. Otherwise, the person would talk about aspects of the firm that make it better than other firms. We've already determined (using your own analysis) that the phrase is 100% untrue to begin with. You're just failing to see the underlying purpose of the statement: it's an attempt to convince an interviewee that unequal firms are equal.

In any event, it's just a dumbass thing to say as an interviewer. People who say this shouldn't be interviewing in the first place.

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:22 am

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over this. I agree that firms "whose reputations precede them," as I mentioned below, have pronounced personalities. Quinn is definitely one of them.

But if you're sorting firms based on a feel from OCI or a couple interviews, all you're doing is judging 1000 lawyers on the one twerp who could make it to OCI. I certainly think my firm is very similar to many many others in our band (at least as relevant to my level and junior associates), and I don't know why you'd advise people to uniformly "run" from me in an interview because I said so. It's still bad advice.


Okay, smart guy, why don't you explain to me the motivation behind an interviewer saying something like "all firms are the same"? The only rational reason why someone would say this is to gloss over or distract people from aspects of his/her own firm that make the firm sub par. Otherwise, the person would talk about aspects of the firm that make it better than other firms.

In any event, it's just a dumbass thing to say as an interviewer. People who say this shouldn't be interviewing people in the first place.


This is really the vitriol that permeates boards like this, isn't it?

I understand your position. But I think interviewers say all sorts of stupid things. And I think "yeah, we're pretty similar on the important stuff" is a pretty honest answer. That's priamrily because I think most associates honestly have no idea what differentiates them from other firms. You think somebody at Orrick can really articulate what makes them different from Mofo? Wilson? Wilmer? Probably not. I think they may make up some shit that they were told by higher-ups, maybe say something about the favorite rainmaker and some big victories, but have no real insight into on a day-to-day basis. And I think the *real* differences between those shops are fairly irrelevant to a junior associate -- the PPP, the way work is brought in, the way shares are divided up, the way the partnership is managed, etc.

And I don't think it takes this "rational reason" argument to justify that. That implies some sort of bad motivation. I don't think associates are out to lie to candidates; it's not like we're on a scorecard for how many recruits we land. (At least I'm not -- do you guys do that?) Nobody knows why somebody chooses us or doesn't. Maybe there is some ego involved in making their firm look better than others, but I think the honest or de minimis answer tends to make the interviewer look more sincere.

Most of what matters to a young associate comes down to your individual experience at a big firm -- my experience at my T20 may be completely different than yours because of who I work with and what I have worked on (and how I work). I think the top things to be looking for in callbacks is whether you actually like the people you meet, whether they seem smart, and whether that office is doing the kind of work that you might want to do. I think some "protip" to walk when you hear a certain answer is a universally bad idea.

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous Associate » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:15 pm

How important do you think it is to do pro bono work for career development/progression? Between the cases I am on (which are painfully leanly staffed), the prior trial I had this year, and now post-trial work and gearing up for a CAFC appeal, my plate feels really full. And it'll be depo season soon in a case where we are repping nearly 10 defendants. Is this a good enough "excuse"?

I guess the answer could depend on the firm as well, but kinda wondering if patent lit guys and gals get a seeming "pass" on this, as the practice group is swamped and understaffed (at least at my firm)...

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:29 pm

How do IP lit groups feel about clerkships in your experience? District court? CAFC? Both? Do you think general practice and boutique firms treat them differently?

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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:56 pm

[OP]

Anonymous Associate wrote:How important do you think it is to do pro bono work for career development/progression? Between the cases I am on (which are painfully leanly staffed), the prior trial I had this year, and now post-trial work and gearing up for a CAFC appeal, my plate feels really full. And it'll be depo season soon in a case where we are repping nearly 10 defendants. Is this a good enough "excuse"?

I guess the answer could depend on the firm as well, but kinda wondering if patent lit guys and gals get a seeming "pass" on this, as the practice group is swamped and understaffed (at least at my firm)...


You'll find time. I didn't do much as a junior associate either. Wait for the lulls then use pro bono to build up the types of experience you're not getting otherwise.
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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:28 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over this. I agree that firms "whose reputations precede them," as I mentioned below, have pronounced personalities. Quinn is definitely one of them.

But if you're sorting firms based on a feel from OCI or a couple interviews, all you're doing is judging 1000 lawyers on the one twerp who could make it to OCI. I certainly think my firm is very similar to many many others in our band (at least as relevant to my level and junior associates), and I don't know why you'd advise people to uniformly "run" from me in an interview because I said so. It's still bad advice.


Okay, smart guy, why don't you explain to me the motivation behind an interviewer saying something like "all firms are the same"? The only rational reason why someone would say this is to gloss over or distract people from aspects of his/her own firm that make the firm sub par. Otherwise, the person would talk about aspects of the firm that make it better than other firms. We've already determined (using your own analysis) that the phrase is 100% untrue to begin with. You're just failing to see the underlying purpose of the statement: it's an attempt to convince an interviewee that unequal firms are equal.

In any event, it's just a dumbass thing to say as an interviewer. People who say this shouldn't be interviewing in the first place.

I'm the guy who said this was said to me originally. I'll provide the context: in both instances it was said, they were seemingly sympathizing with me, the interviewee, and my [in]ability to meaningfully distinguish large v50 firms for the purposes of answering the "why us" question.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Senior Associate IP Lit Taking Questions

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over this. I agree that firms "whose reputations precede them," as I mentioned below, have pronounced personalities. Quinn is definitely one of them.

But if you're sorting firms based on a feel from OCI or a couple interviews, all you're doing is judging 1000 lawyers on the one twerp who could make it to OCI. I certainly think my firm is very similar to many many others in our band (at least as relevant to my level and junior associates), and I don't know why you'd advise people to uniformly "run" from me in an interview because I said so. It's still bad advice.


Okay, smart guy, why don't you explain to me the motivation behind an interviewer saying something like "all firms are the same"? The only rational reason why someone would say this is to gloss over or distract people from aspects of his/her own firm that make the firm sub par. Otherwise, the person would talk about aspects of the firm that make it better than other firms. We've already determined (using your own analysis) that the phrase is 100% untrue to begin with. You're just failing to see the underlying purpose of the statement: it's an attempt to convince an interviewee that unequal firms are equal.

In any event, it's just a dumbass thing to say as an interviewer. People who say this shouldn't be interviewing in the first place.

I'm the guy who said this was said to me originally. I'll provide the context: in both instances it was said, they were seemingly sympathizing with me, the interviewee, and my [in]ability to meaningfully distinguish large v50 firms for the purposes of answering the "why us" question.


Ah, that seems more innocuous given the context. I think my advice still applies, however, if an interviewer is actively trying to convince you that there are no differences among firms.




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