1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

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1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:40 pm

Chillin' in bed on a lazy Saturday, closing soon on a sweet house in one of the best parts of town, might go shooting a little later today. LOL at my NY Biglawyer friends, just LOL (but seriously, I love you guys).

FAQ about midlaw:

Is it 9-5?

Some weeks. Others its sunrise to sunset. No all-nighters yet. I've had to work a few hours on the weekends here and there.

Does it pay well:

Yes

What is the quality of the work like:

A mix of really interesting stuff and tedious stuff. I actually find the small cases more interesting than the large ones since my responsibilities for those cases exceed "update this spreadsheet" or "review this pile of documents"

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:56 pm

If you're a first year and it's October 26, how long have you actually worked there so far?

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:02 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:If you're a first year and it's October 26, how long have you actually worked there so far?


Couplea months. October/Nov start dates are a post-recession thing. Funny how quickly people get used to the new normal.

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:36 pm

How closely would you say you work with the partners?

Do you find that your working relationship with the partners are significantly closer than your biglaw counterparts?

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2014
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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby 2014 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:47 pm

Obviously you wouldn't know from personal experience yet, but in talking to other associates do you have any idea what standard bonuses are for you guys?

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seespotrun
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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby seespotrun » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:11 pm

Are most midlawyers douchebags?

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Nova
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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Nova » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:50 pm

Class rank? About what % of your class works in biglaw?

How did you get the interview? Advice for getting a job in midlaw?

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How closely would you say you work with the partners?

Do you find that your working relationship with the partners are significantly closer than your biglaw counterparts?


Very closely. Usually I'm working directly for partner. My impression is that biglawyers spend a lot more time working for mid levels and senior associates.

Obviously you wouldn't know from personal experience yet, but in talking to other associates do you have any idea what standard bonuses are for you guys?


For first years either slightly above or below NYC market depending on hours worked.

Are most midlawyers douchebags?


No, just me.

Class rank? About what % of your class works in biglaw?


Good, not great student. A majority (depending on how defined).

How did you get the interview? Advice for getting a job in midlaw?


Mass mailing + personal connection (really important if you don't have an obvious at first glance reason for wanting to work at the firm) . Have a personal connection + an obvious reason for wanting to be in the market. Write targeted cover letters. My sense is that good grades at a top-50 school is also required - the lower ranked the school among the Top-50 the better the grades.

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:18 pm

Another midlaw first year reporting in. For me, it was more about work product and personal connections. I worked in house for a summer and that rolled into more than one full time associate offer at a couple of firms they use as outside counsel because of a glowing recommendation.

Firms were 50-100 attys in my school's secondary market and 150-250 attys in a secondary market where I had very strong ties.

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby bld2414 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:26 pm

What's that salary homey?

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:28 pm

bld2414 wrote:What's that salary homey?


Anon #2 - north of 100

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby bld2414 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:30 pm

Billable hr requirements?

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:34 pm

bld2414 wrote:Billable hr requirements?


Anon #2 (feel free to kick me out Anon #1, I thought I could add to your answers)

Billable guideline of 1900, but associates rarely hit it and it's a non-issue. Collections, profitability, and work product are the focus as a junior.

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby GokartMozart315 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:27 pm

sounds like some nice accounts. if i'm looking to target midlaw, how do i go about finding firms that hire people right out of school (or even for 2L summer where i'm currently looking, just thinking ahead)

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:02 pm

What would you consider to be "mid-law?"

Some firms in my market with 20 attorneys identify themselves as a mid-size law firm.

Mind you the "big" law firms in my market range from about 400-700 attorneys.

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby thewaves » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:10 pm

How secure do you feel in your job and the secondary market economy? How long do you anticipate being there realistically?

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:15 pm

GokartMozart315 wrote:sounds like some nice accounts. if i'm looking to target midlaw, how do i go about finding firms that hire people right out of school (or even for 2L summer where i'm currently looking, just thinking ahead)


Anon #2 - I found out about my firm through a summer employer, but we do OCI at a number of schools (we have several offices of varying size). I would recommend your OCS combined with chambers, google searches, martindale, and similar. Use enough sources and you're bound to pick up some new results. Hiring may vary, but info sessions, lunches, and calls to recruitment aren't bad ways to find out.

Anonymous User wrote:What would you consider to be "mid-law?" Some firms in my market with 20 attorneys identify themselves as a mid-size law firm. Mind you the "big" law firms in my market range from about 400-700 attorneys.


Personally, I would classify mid law as 50-250 attorneys, depending on market. To me though, a better indicator may be things like billable requirements, pay, and similar indicators. The pay structure at my firm is mostly or entirely salary based to the exclusion of bonuses, and first years make well under 160, although as I said earlier, it is north of 100, which is good buying power in this market. The billable target is much more reasonable than a firm nearby which is a biglaw branch.

thewaves wrote:How secure do you feel in your job and the secondary market economy? How long do you anticipate being there realistically?


I feel very secure. My firm rigorously and conservatively hires only what they feel they can sustain long-term. My supervising partner specifically says that he only seeks to hire someone he hopes to be able to develop long term. My market is supporting us well year over year, and since we don't use an up/our or more leveraged structure, I don't see why that would change going forward.

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby hookem12 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:35 am

Thanks for posting! I'm also at good (not great) grades at a T14 and am targeting midlaw. I'm still trying to figure out the best thing to do my 2L summer - it seems that most midsize firms don't have an SA program or even take interns. Any suggestions as to how to break in, or what to do this summer in preparation? Is mass mailing still the way to go?

daryldixon
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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby daryldixon » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:42 am

Are you in the midwest or do you mean secondary market as in a smaller coastal market that pays less than 160K (such as Atlanta or Seattle)?

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:17 am

hookem12 wrote:Thanks for posting! I'm also at good (not great) grades at a T14 and am targeting midlaw. I'm still trying to figure out the best thing to do my 2L summer - it seems that most midsize firms don't have an SA program or even take interns. Any suggestions as to how to break in, or what to do this summer in preparation? Is mass mailing still the way to go?


Anon #2 - My results are atypical, so I may not be able to provide the kind of guidance you are seeking here. The firm where I landed actually does OCI and hires 2L SAs, although one or two of the offices do it more often than some of the others. The other firm where I had an offer does not do a traditional SA -> associate structure, and I actually worked during 3L to eventually get that offer.

My advice on this topic would be to hustle for an SA, either in your school's or your home's market. Barring that, you want to make strong connections and do top notch work for any 2L summer position you can get. Some of my friends did RA work or clinic work after 2nd year. While it may pay or it may fill a void, I tend to think that a position that puts you with lawyers is a better one in terms of making lasting connections. Neither my current firm nor the other firm hire many 3Ls (it happens... to me in fact) but in the event that they are looking, having a glowing recommendation goes a long way. It can even help them overlook grades. I should know, because mine were nothing special. (below top third, above median at a school well outside T30).

daryldixon wrote:Are you in the midwest or do you mean secondary market as in a smaller coastal market that pays less than 160K (such as Atlanta or Seattle)?


Can't speak to Anon #1, but I am in a smaller coastal market that pays less than 160k (most do, there may be a couple that pay 160k).

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby BearState » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:08 am

Thanks for posting.

What is annual salary advancement like?

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:12 am

BearState wrote:Thanks for posting.

What is annual salary advancement like?


Anon #2 - Due to firm policies, I can't get too much into specifics, but my firm moved away from lockstep, and has shifted to pay advances based on easy to delineate, well explained year-end review goals that focus mostly on work product, client interaction, and professional development goals (with collections/profitability also being a factor).

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:08 pm

Do you get the sense that there are lateral opportunities available to you in the future (whether to other firms or in-house) or are those mostly precluded from midlawyers in your market?

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do you get the sense that there are lateral opportunities available to you in the future (whether to other firms or in-house) or are those mostly precluded from midlawyers in your market?


Anon #2 - my situation is a little different regarding lateral opportunities because my specific practice area makes it a bit easier to go in-house than many others might. As far as going to other firms, given the attitude towards developing and retaining talent internally here, I don't think the whole concept of exit options is as relevant at my firm. It's not an up/out situation as it may be at larger firms.

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Re: 1st Year 2ndary Market Midlawyer Takin Qs

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:33 pm

Thanks for taking the time to do this OP.

Another question:

Does your firm give you a lot of opportunities to really develop your research, writing and advocacy skills?




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