Judicial Externship and 1L SA search

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mcs268
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:03 pm

Judicial Externship and 1L SA search

Postby mcs268 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:46 pm

Given the clusterf*** that is the end of november due to finals coming up then, it looks like I will be starting my resume, cover letters, etc. for my 1L summer job search soon. Like everyone looking for big law, my #1 goal is a 1L SA, which I know is like a 1% chance. T20 and no idea where I stand in the class yet, obviously, but even if I get top 10 or something, it's not easy.

In case I don't get a 1L SA (which I pragmatically should assume), I am looking to get a judicial externship. My problem is that for the externships in my market, they apparently fill before January 1st. So there is a chance that if I happened to get a callback for a 1L SA, I could have an offer for an externship with a judge (which I couldn't turn down, since I've heard that is a huge no-no).

So, if that happens, will it be in really poor taste for me to say to the firm I can't interview since I accepted a judicial externship already? I am assuming firms won't call you back until after the new year. I just really want to cover my bases since getting an externship will be significantly easier, but I also don't want to shut myself out of a potential 1L SA and even a 2L SA by turning down a call back offer..

Does anyone who's been in a similar situation before/just knows what to do have any advice? All help would be appreciated...thank you!

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thesealocust
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Re: Judicial Externship and 1L SA search

Postby thesealocust » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:03 pm

Everyone has this problem (at least conceptually). One good solution is to interview for and accept a judicial position if it comes your way, then request to split with a law firm if such an interview comes your way. Makes for a good summer and you'd hardly be the first who had things pan out that way.

mcs268
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:03 pm

Re: Judicial Externship and 1L SA search

Postby mcs268 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:19 pm

Don't law firms usually not allow split summers though? I would also figure I'd have no chance of an offer 1L summer if I split, and I heard a no offer from a 1L SA is a red flag. But maybe that wouldn't apply if the summer was split.

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AlanShore
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Re: Judicial Externship and 1L SA search

Postby AlanShore » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:47 pm

mcs268 wrote:Given the clusterf*** that is the end of november due to finals coming up then, it looks like I will be starting my resume, cover letters, etc. for my 1L summer job search soon. Like everyone looking for big law, my #1 goal is a 1L SA, which I know is like a 1% chance. T20 and no idea where I stand in the class yet, obviously, but even if I get top 10 or something, it's not easy.

In case I don't get a 1L SA (which I pragmatically should assume), I am looking to get a judicial externship. My problem is that for the externships in my market, they apparently fill before January 1st. So there is a chance that if I happened to get a callback for a 1L SA, I could have an offer for an externship with a judge (which I couldn't turn down, since I've heard that is a huge no-no).

So, if that happens, will it be in really poor taste for me to say to the firm I can't interview since I accepted a judicial externship already? I am assuming firms won't call you back until after the new year. I just really want to cover my bases since getting an externship will be significantly easier, but I also don't want to shut myself out of a potential 1L SA and even a 2L SA by turning down a call back offer..

Does anyone who's been in a similar situation before/just knows what to do have any advice? All help would be appreciated...thank you!

1L also in the same exact situation. The tough thing is a very close friend of mine clerked for a federal judge and offered to recommend me for the summer/pass my resume. It could make zero difference but in the case that I get an offer, I'd have to accept of course. On the other hand, I do want to try for a 1L SA (similar school rank to you, OP). A few of the 2L/3L got 1L SA through diversity scholarships etc. and they weren't at the very tippity top of their class (I am diverse, not urm) so I have a chance, albeit not huge. I'm thinking I should take the gamble because worst comes to worst, the legal dept at my old company (big financial firm) said I can come back for the summer. It would be boring but it would look okay on a resume.

Thoughts? Should I just apply to the judge and accept or take the gamble on a 1L SA? (some of these SA positions are with medium firms)

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thesealocust
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Re: Judicial Externship and 1L SA search

Postby thesealocust » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:48 pm

mcs268 wrote:Don't law firms usually not allow split summers though? I would also figure I'd have no chance of an offer 1L summer if I split, and I heard a no offer from a 1L SA is a red flag. But maybe that wouldn't apply if the summer was split.


I'd say they generally allow splits. Offers are often just to return 2L summer and the risk of a 1L no offer is never worth giving up the opportunity to earn mad cash and get good experience.

Anonymous User
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Re: Judicial Externship and 1L SA search

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:15 am

I did a 1L SA, and here's what I did. I had all of my firm applications out by Dec 5th. I had planned on sending out applications for judges starting Dec 15th, but by then I had already heard back and done screeners with all of the firms that inevitably offered me callbacks so I waited. Firms don't have nearly the amount of applications for 1Ls as they do for 2Ls so they move more quickly, especially if you inform them in your cover letter that you will be in the area over xmas break and available to interview. I did my interviews in early-mid January and started sending out judicial applications immediately after, but only a few. I got a firm offer in mid-January. All of this happened before I got grades. But if you're not from a t-14, it's more likely they will wait for grades, and by that time, you will have missed out on a lot of good judges. So it's ok in my opinion to be strategic, but don't wait too long. Even with 6 callbacks under my belt, I was applying to judicial internships.

Also for the person who said they were diverse but not a URM, most of the firm diversity programs only count racial diversity and not LGBT or other types of diversity. I had a few friends who thought they would qualify because they've always been considered "diverse," but were informed that they would not after wasting lots of time on applications. So check in advance.

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AlanShore
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Re: Judicial Externship and 1L SA search

Postby AlanShore » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:I did a 1L SA, and here's what I did. I had all of my firm applications out by Dec 5th. I had planned on sending out applications for judges starting Dec 15th, but by then I had already heard back and done screeners with all of the firms that inevitably offered me callbacks so I waited. Firms don't have nearly the amount of applications for 1Ls as they do for 2Ls so they move more quickly, especially if you inform them in your cover letter that you will be in the area over xmas break and available to interview. I did my interviews in early-mid January and started sending out judicial applications immediately after, but only a few. I got a firm offer in mid-January. All of this happened before I got grades. But if you're not from a t-14, it's more likely they will wait for grades, and by that time, you will have missed out on a lot of good judges. So it's ok in my opinion to be strategic, but don't wait too long. Even with 6 callbacks under my belt, I was applying to judicial internships.

Also for the person who said they were diverse but not a URM, most of the firm diversity programs only count racial diversity and not LGBT or other types of diversity. I had a few friends who thought they would qualify because they've always been considered "diverse," but were informed that they would not after wasting lots of time on applications. So check in advance.


Thanks for all this advice. Very helpful.

I am racially diverse but not urm. However there are other students in my school who got a diversity scholarship who were of my race and also not urm.

I'm not at a t14 so not sure what my strategy should be. I will definitely apply early as you did but I know firms will wait for my grades to make a final decision which don't even come out until February. How favorably do firms view 1L federal clerkship during oci? Slight boost or doesn't matter?

Anonymous User
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Re: Judicial Externship and 1L SA search

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:16 am

AlanShore wrote: How favorably do firms view 1L federal clerkship during oci? Slight boost or doesn't matter?


Small point: call it an externship, not a clerkship. Students intern/extern, graduates clerk.

It varies by firm. I externed during 1L summer, and I heard some very positive statements from V50-100 firms about the experience, and it's always a positive note in an interview. The reality though, is that 1L summer work is frequently little more than a talking point during an interview.

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AlanShore
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Re: Judicial Externship and 1L SA search

Postby AlanShore » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:
AlanShore wrote: How favorably do firms view 1L federal clerkship during oci? Slight boost or doesn't matter?


Small point: call it an externship, not a clerkship. Students intern/extern, graduates clerk.

It varies by firm. I externed during 1L summer, and I heard some very positive statements from V50-100 firms about the experience, and it's always a positive note in an interview. The reality though, is that 1L summer work is frequently little more than a talking point during an interview.

Thanks for the correction.

Yes a couple friends said similar things... That the value of the 1L job is really only the ability to have decent stories to tell during Oci (unless of course you get an SA that asks you back).

Thanks for the advice




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