Texas ties: what counts?

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legalese_retard
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby legalese_retard » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:24 am

hookem7 wrote:Dallas folks are suspicious even of Houstonians, must be little brother syndrome. Dallas firms grilled me on "Why Dallas?" when I've lived in Texas my entire life. This isn't to say that is a bad thing, but I would imagine you have to come up with some really good answers if you are from out of state and go to school out of state. I'd like to say Houston cares less about ties (generally less pretentious folks), but I can't really answer since I'm from there and "Why Houston?" wasn't really something that needed to be asked.


I think it is a two-way street. I'm from Texas, went to SMU for law school, and struggled to find Houston firm with any interest in me. I actually scored interviews at two good firms in Austin, even though I never been to the city prior to the interviews. I think firms in Dallas and Houston are skeptical of candidates from the opposite city. Firms in both cities pay the same and essentially do the same work. While residents from both cities vehemently deny any similarity between Dallas and Houston, I think that both cities are essentially the same.

A CSO at SMU told me that a couple of firms in Houston have been "burned" by past graduates who got hired for a Houston firm, worked there for a couple of years, and then ended up moving back to Dallas. I'd imagine the same has happened with Houston folks accepting firm jobs in Dallas and moving back to Houston.

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kalvano
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby kalvano » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:12 am

Dallas and Houston just don't like each other very much.

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wiz
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby wiz » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:42 am

legalese_retard wrote:
hookem7 wrote:Dallas folks are suspicious even of Houstonians, must be little brother syndrome. Dallas firms grilled me on "Why Dallas?" when I've lived in Texas my entire life. This isn't to say that is a bad thing, but I would imagine you have to come up with some really good answers if you are from out of state and go to school out of state. I'd like to say Houston cares less about ties (generally less pretentious folks), but I can't really answer since I'm from there and "Why Houston?" wasn't really something that needed to be asked.


I think it is a two-way street. I'm from Texas, went to SMU for law school, and struggled to find Houston firm with any interest in me. I actually scored interviews at two good firms in Austin, even though I never been to the city prior to the interviews. I think firms in Dallas and Houston are skeptical of candidates from the opposite city. Firms in both cities pay the same and essentially do the same work. While residents from both cities vehemently deny any similarity between Dallas and Houston, I think that both cities are essentially the same.

A CSO at SMU told me that a couple of firms in Houston have been "burned" by past graduates who got hired for a Houston firm, worked there for a couple of years, and then ended up moving back to Dallas. I'd imagine the same has happened with Houston folks accepting firm jobs in Dallas and moving back to Houston.


I agree with this, but I still think Houston going for Dallas is more difficult than Dallas going for Houston. Neither is as difficult as Houston/Dallas going for Austin. I also like that the behavior you described is considered "burning" a TX firm, while for many NY firms, that would pretty much be the norm, and a firm would replace you with another warm body without batting an eye.

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lawhopeful10
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby lawhopeful10 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:58 pm

Would you guys recommend applying to Texas firms on December 1st and mentioning you are available over winter break for interviews and then also say you will be in the area over winter break even if you will not be. Then if someone offers to interview you just book a flight then. Any thoughts on that?

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wiz
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby wiz » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:45 pm

lawhopeful10 wrote:Would you guys recommend applying to Texas firms on December 1st and mentioning you are available over winter break for interviews and then also say you will be in the area over winter break even if you will not be. Then if someone offers to interview you just book a flight then. Any thoughts on that?


Assuming you can afford it, I would do this. They'll only interview you if they're seriously pursuing your candidacy. Even if you don't land the job, it's nice to get interview experience and put yourself on the radar for 2L hiring. And if you do get a 1L SA, enjoy 3k per week while most of your classmates work for free.

adg56
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby adg56 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:58 pm

lawhopeful10 wrote:Would you guys recommend applying to Texas firms on December 1st and mentioning you are available over winter break for interviews and then also say you will be in the area over winter break even if you will not be. Then if someone offers to interview you just book a flight then. Any thoughts on that?


This is exactly what I did as a 1L, and I ended up interviewing at a firm over winter break and getting a job. I had no Texas connections whatsoever, but I think flying out there demonstrated enough interest.

Anonymous User
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:32 pm

hookem7 wrote:Dallas folks are suspicious even of Houstonians, must be little brother syndrome. Dallas firms grilled me on "Why Dallas?" when I've lived in Texas my entire life. This isn't to say that is a bad thing, but I would imagine you have to come up with some really good answers if you are from out of state and go to school out of state. I'd like to say Houston cares less about ties (generally less pretentious folks), but I can't really answer since I'm from there and "Why Houston?" wasn't really something that needed to be asked.


Being from Houston, I had the same issue with the Dallas offices I interviewed with. It's probably harder cracking Dallas if you are from Houston than if you were from somewhere like Mississippi. I think to Dallas offices it seems weird that someone from Houston would prefer Dallas unless they can articulate a strong reason for that preference. It is doable, though.

For OP, your ties are fine. Obviously, the stronger the tie the better. But TX is definitely attainable without strong ties.

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lawhopeful10
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby lawhopeful10 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:45 pm

adg56 wrote:
lawhopeful10 wrote:Would you guys recommend applying to Texas firms on December 1st and mentioning you are available over winter break for interviews and then also say you will be in the area over winter break even if you will not be. Then if someone offers to interview you just book a flight then. Any thoughts on that?


This is exactly what I did as a 1L, and I ended up interviewing at a firm over winter break and getting a job. I had no Texas connections whatsoever, but I think flying out there demonstrated enough interest.

Not to micromanage this too much but assuming I do this what would be the best dates to say I would be in town and is there a good way to phrase it. I basically have from December 13th to January 7th and I wasn't sure if there was a best time in that range where firms have enough time to look at your application and start conducting interviews. This is all under the assumption I apply December 1st.
Thanks in advance,

texas_ranger
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby texas_ranger » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:38 am

[quote="BigZuck"]My understanding is that Houston is a lot less suspicious of outsiders than Dallas. This is good because the legal market in Houston is a good deal larger than the market in Dallas. I have heard that Dallas firms are sometimes suspicious of people from Houston, let alone non-Texans.

I wouldn't call it "suspicion" as much as plain-old rivalry. Even with its gobs and gobs of money, SMU is merely "tied" with U of H, a state school with far greater capital problems (not to mention possibly the ugliest law school in the country, or the university's location in Third Ward, the most dangerous part of the city). Finally UH has three subspecialties, two mentioned as top-ranked in US News: IP litigation, health law, and the best energy/environmental law program (and one of the few that the two are won't.

But yeah, Houstonians hate Dallas and vice-versa, and Houston's the bigger part of the market, being the largest pinrl in the nwtion

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Balthy
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby Balthy » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:12 am

spacepenguin wrote:
It's really an easy question to answer, though. Why Dallas? "Houston is a smoldering shit-hole." Also, even in NY I'd get the "Why NY?" question, I would hardly consider that grilling, though.


Houston native. Can confirm.




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