Texas ties: what counts?

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Anonymous User
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Texas ties: what counts?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:19 pm

I have cousins and family history in Texas, but don't live there. 1L at UVA trying to break into the larger firms in Dallas or Houston. Will those ties be enough, or will firms be looking for more? I also am married and am looking to settle down in TX, so I figure that could also be persuasive.

Thoughts?

Void
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby Void » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:38 pm

I think these count as ties in Texas.

BigZuck
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby BigZuck » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:02 am

1L here so take with the appropriate grain of salt, but I do go to UT:

My understanding is that Houston is a lot less suspicious of outsiders than Dallas. This is good because the legal market in Houston is a good deal larger than the market in Dallas. I have heard that Dallas firms are sometimes suspicious of people from Houston, let alone non-Texans. I think if you can really sell a genuine interest in Texas you wouldn't automatically be shut out of Houston as an outsider.

I'm sure there are better people who can speak to this though (like someone who has actually gone through OCI rather than someone who is still trying to figure out what proximate clause is)

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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:07 am

BigZuck wrote:1L here so take with the appropriate grain of salt, but I do go to UT:

My understanding is that Houston is a lot less suspicious of outsiders than Dallas. This is good because the legal market in Houston is a good deal larger than the market in Dallas. I have heard that Dallas firms are sometimes suspicious of people from Houston, let alone non-Texans. I think if you can really sell a genuine interest in Texas you wouldn't automatically be shut out of Houston as an outsider.

I'm sure there are better people who can speak to this though (like someone who has actually gone through OCI rather than someone who is still trying to figure out what proximate clause is)


do you think a love of football, trucks, beef, conservative values, family in O&G, saying ya'll, but being from louisiana would have any shot?

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yeast master
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby yeast master » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:09 am

The only ties I had were that my wife's grandparents and aunt's family lived in Houston, and I ended up with offers in Houston and Austin.

Telling interviewers that my wife and I had been wanting to settle in Texas because it's a good place for a family--inexpensive housing and good salaries--seemed to go over well.

Seems like you have at least a decent story to tell. You might encounter a little skepticism, but it didn't seem like the Texas firms were as concerned with ties as firms in some other cities.

BigZuck
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby BigZuck » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:
BigZuck wrote:1L here so take with the appropriate grain of salt, but I do go to UT:

My understanding is that Houston is a lot less suspicious of outsiders than Dallas. This is good because the legal market in Houston is a good deal larger than the market in Dallas. I have heard that Dallas firms are sometimes suspicious of people from Houston, let alone non-Texans. I think if you can really sell a genuine interest in Texas you wouldn't automatically be shut out of Houston as an outsider.

I'm sure there are better people who can speak to this though (like someone who has actually gone through OCI rather than someone who is still trying to figure out what proximate clause is)


do you think a love of football, trucks, beef, conservative values, family in O&G, saying ya'll, but being from louisiana would have any shot?


Solid use of anon. There's a couple Cajuns in my section, but again, haven't gone through OCI yet.

Generally speaking, seems like all that would go over just fine in Houston. There's lots of Louisiana influences in Houston (Dat Bayou connection and all) and as I said the sense I've got is that Houston is significantly less suspicious of non-Texans.

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kalvano
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby kalvano » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:
BigZuck wrote:1L here so take with the appropriate grain of salt, but I do go to UT:

My understanding is that Houston is a lot less suspicious of outsiders than Dallas. This is good because the legal market in Houston is a good deal larger than the market in Dallas. I have heard that Dallas firms are sometimes suspicious of people from Houston, let alone non-Texans. I think if you can really sell a genuine interest in Texas you wouldn't automatically be shut out of Houston as an outsider.

I'm sure there are better people who can speak to this though (like someone who has actually gone through OCI rather than someone who is still trying to figure out what proximate clause is)


do you think a love of football, trucks, beef, conservative values, family in O&G, saying ya'll, but being from louisiana would have any shot?



Learning how to spell y'all would be a good start.

envisciguy
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby envisciguy » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:I have cousins and family history in Texas, but don't live there. 1L at UVA trying to break into the larger firms in Dallas or Houston. Will those ties be enough, or will firms be looking for more? I also am married and am looking to settle down in TX, so I figure that could also be persuasive.

Thoughts?


I'm a 2L at UVA heading to a Texas firm this summer and I had less ties than you have. If you want more info, feel free to PM me.

justinp
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby justinp » Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:46 pm

Louisiana is basically a suburb of Houston as far as ties go. I doubt anyone will question it but do have at least some reason.

Tons of Louisiana folks there.

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Magnifique1908
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby Magnifique1908 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:38 pm

I'm a midwestern girl with absolutely no ties to Texas. Spent my 1L summer at Austin firms and received 2L offers in Houston, Austin, and Dallas.

I moved here for law school and decided to stay.That was my response to every question. I was actually even honest about not knowing much about Houston and Dallas but being in love with Austin. I said that I wanted to get a feel for the bigger legal markets since I was already familiar with Austin (in my Dallas and Houston interviews). That usually led to the interviewers, especially natives, giving me the hard sell on why one city over the other.

YMMV, but if you have a reasonable response it shouldn't be a huge obstacle.

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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby 2014 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:43 pm

I think the key, especially for 1L spots in Texas, is to make sure you are in the area over winter break. No matter how good of a sell you have, firms don't love to incur flight and hotel costs for 1Ls and reserving the jobs for people who bring themselves to the area is a pretty solid proxy for ties.

Not saying there won't be some anecdote of someone who didn't have to do this, but it's a good idea if you are serious about it.

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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:56 pm

A close friend of mine only went to undergrad in TX without any family ties or anything. Ended up getting a good firm job there for next summer. My friend also spend no time in the state since undergrad--had a summer job in a completely different market.

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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby envisciguy » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:31 am

Magnifique1908 wrote:I'm a midwestern girl with absolutely no ties to Texas. Spent my 1L summer at Austin firms and received 2L offers in Houston, Austin, and Dallas.

I moved here for law school and decided to stay.That was my response to every question. I was actually even honest about not knowing much about Houston and Dallas but being in love with Austin. I said that I wanted to get a feel for the bigger legal markets since I was already familiar with Austin (in my Dallas and Houston interviews). That usually led to the interviewers, especially natives, giving me the hard sell on why one city over the other.

YMMV, but if you have a reasonable response it shouldn't be a huge obstacle.


I think the bolded are a bit contradictory. I'd consider moving to the state for law school to be a tie, especially if you're interviewing for firms in the same city you go to school in.

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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby scc1986 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:36 am

2014 wrote:I think the key, especially for 1L spots in Texas, is to make sure you are in the area over winter break. No matter how good of a sell you have, firms don't love to incur flight and hotel costs for 1Ls and reserving the jobs for people who bring themselves to the area is a pretty solid proxy for ties.

Not saying there won't be some anecdote of someone who didn't have to do this, but it's a good idea if you are serious about it.


So in the mass-mailing, just mention availability in the area over the break?

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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:01 am

scc1986 wrote:
2014 wrote:I think the key, especially for 1L spots in Texas, is to make sure you are in the area over winter break. No matter how good of a sell you have, firms don't love to incur flight and hotel costs for 1Ls and reserving the jobs for people who bring themselves to the area is a pretty solid proxy for ties.

Not saying there won't be some anecdote of someone who didn't have to do this, but it's a good idea if you are serious about it.


So in the mass-mailing, just mention availability in the area over the break?

That's fine, but you're gonna want to follow up with the recruiting contact (by phone, not email) and reiterate the dates you'll be in town. If that person likes you (and you have the right grades/school), they will put you on the top of the stack and try to hook you up with a callback when you're around.

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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby spacepenguin » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:33 am

After working two summers in Texas, here's a sample of people who I've worked with who had loose (or no) connections to Texas

1. SO working in Dallas.
2. Multiple people from Louisiana who kind of just want to live in the south.
3. Midwesterner who had a family and wanted to settle down, thus eliminating most major markets from consideration.
4. Parents lived in Houston but somehow decided that Dallas was the place to be?
5. People from the middle of nowhere.


Note: None of these people went to UT or any other Texas school for undergrad or law school.

Generally, all you have to do is spin a story as to why you DON'T want to work in New York/DC. It's not so much about having connections as it is being genuine in your desire to live in a specific market (I say this knowing full well that people will tell me this is terrible advice). I had zero connections to Dallas, but it was enough for me to say "the city I live in doesn't really have a legal industry and New York smells like cat piss."

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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby BeautifulSW » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:42 am

The only parts of Texas I have any real experience with (legal and other) are the Trans-Pecos and the Panhandle-South Plains. People in these areas tend to be welcoming to newcomers (though being "welcoming" usually involves an invitation to join their church...grimace). I should mention that I don't have legal experience in El Paso itself and so can't comment on that but the city is otherwise very friendly. Snobbery in West Texas is not much appreciated.

EDIT: Also VERY conservative outside El Paso County.

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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby BVest » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:04 pm

envisciguy wrote:
Magnifique1908 wrote:I'm a midwestern girl with absolutely no ties to Texas. Spent my 1L summer at Austin firms and received 2L offers in Houston, Austin, and Dallas.

I moved here for law school and decided to stay.


I think the bolded are a bit contradictory. I'd consider moving to the state for law school to be a tie, especially if you're interviewing for firms in the same city you go to school in.


Indeed. Plus the fact that you stayed through a Texas summer (though this last summer wasn't too bad) and still want to stay is strong evidence of commitment.

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Magnifique1908
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby Magnifique1908 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:32 pm

envisciguy wrote:
Magnifique1908 wrote:I'm a midwestern girl with absolutely no ties to Texas. Spent my 1L summer at Austin firms and received 2L offers in Houston, Austin, and Dallas.

I moved here for law school and decided to stay.That was my response to every question. I was actually even honest about not knowing much about Houston and Dallas but being in love with Austin. I said that I wanted to get a feel for the bigger legal markets since I was already familiar with Austin (in my Dallas and Houston interviews). That usually led to the interviewers, especially natives, giving me the hard sell on why one city over the other.

YMMV, but if you have a reasonable response it shouldn't be a huge obstacle.


I think the bolded are a bit contradictory. I'd consider moving to the state for law school to be a tie, especially if you're interviewing for firms in the same city you go to school in.


You'd be wrong. I attend UT and everyone wants to stay in Austin. Firms are weary of students who say "I go to UT, that's my tie to Austin"

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Danger Zone
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby Danger Zone » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:42 pm

Magnifique1908 wrote:Firms are weary of students who say "I go to UT, that's my tie to Austin"

I, too, grow tired of these students.

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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby Magnifique1908 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:42 pm

BVest wrote:
envisciguy wrote:
Magnifique1908 wrote:I'm a midwestern girl with absolutely no ties to Texas. Spent my 1L summer at Austin firms and received 2L offers in Houston, Austin, and Dallas.

I moved here for law school and decided to stay.


I think the bolded are a bit contradictory. I'd consider moving to the state for law school to be a tie, especially if you're interviewing for firms in the same city you go to school in.


Indeed. Plus the fact that you stayed through a Texas summer (though this last summer wasn't too bad) and still want to stay is strong evidence of commitment.


Staying through the summer is probably a stronger tie than going to UT lol. But seriously, anyone that knows anything about the Austin market knows that going to school here will not give you a pass. Everyone wants to be here.

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hookem7
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby hookem7 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:56 pm

Dallas folks are suspicious even of Houstonians, must be little brother syndrome. Dallas firms grilled me on "Why Dallas?" when I've lived in Texas my entire life. This isn't to say that is a bad thing, but I would imagine you have to come up with some really good answers if you are from out of state and go to school out of state. I'd like to say Houston cares less about ties (generally less pretentious folks), but I can't really answer since I'm from there and "Why Houston?" wasn't really something that needed to be asked.

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spacepenguin
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby spacepenguin » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:59 pm

hookem7 wrote:Dallas folks are suspicious even of Houstonians, must be little brother syndrome. Dallas firms grilled me on "Why Dallas?" when I've lived in Texas my entire life. This isn't to say that is a bad thing, but I would imagine you have to come up with some really good answers if you are from out of state and go to school out of state. I'd like to say Houston cares less about ties (generally less pretentious folks), but I can't really answer since I'm from there and "Why Houston?" wasn't really something that needed to be asked.



It's really an easy question to answer, though. Why Dallas? "Houston is a smoldering shit-hole." Also, even in NY I'd get the "Why NY?" question, I would hardly consider that grilling, though.

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BVest
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby BVest » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:36 am

Magnifique1908 wrote:Staying through the summer is probably a stronger tie than going to UT lol. But seriously, anyone that knows anything about the Austin market knows that going to school here will not give you a pass. Everyone wants to be here.


A tight market is not the same thing as requiring stronger ties than going to school there. Yes, it's hard to get Austin, but as you yourself demonstrated, it's not about having stronger Austin ties than that. There are many well-qualified folks at UT with much stronger ties to Austin that sought but did not get that 1L SA you got.

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wiz
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Re: Texas ties: what counts?

Postby wiz » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:03 am

Magnifique1908 wrote:
BVest wrote:
envisciguy wrote:
Magnifique1908 wrote:I'm a midwestern girl with absolutely no ties to Texas. Spent my 1L summer at Austin firms and received 2L offers in Houston, Austin, and Dallas.

I moved here for law school and decided to stay.


I think the bolded are a bit contradictory. I'd consider moving to the state for law school to be a tie, especially if you're interviewing for firms in the same city you go to school in.


Indeed. Plus the fact that you stayed through a Texas summer (though this last summer wasn't too bad) and still want to stay is strong evidence of commitment.


Staying through the summer is probably a stronger tie than going to UT lol. But seriously, anyone that knows anything about the Austin market knows that going to school here will not give you a pass. Everyone wants to be here.


I don't mean to be rude, but you're a URM female who presumably has solid grades, goes to UT, and landed two 1L SAs in Austin. The fact that you were swimming in offers as a 2L, ties or not, is not surprising. But telling OP that "I had no ties, and I did really well!" seems a little bit disingenuous when we don't know if s/he will be as competitive for jerbs as you were.

No one is saying that going to UT will give you a "pass" in Austin. I think what they are trying to say is that some markets, especially Austin, are already rather insular. Sure, Austin will be tough to crack coming from UT because everyone wants to stay there. But that doesn't mean some random with no ties can waltz into Austin either when lots of people who do have ties are getting shut out.




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