Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.

How will bonuses compare to last year?

Up
21
22%
Same
66
68%
Down
10
10%
 
Total votes: 97

User avatar
seespotrun
Posts: 2395
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:36 am

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby seespotrun » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:23 pm

ipguy wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:Astute analysis there, lil brah. Try again when you have actually have something to say. :wink:


I'll slow this down for you "broski" Perhaps your poor reading comprehension and communication skills are why your bonus is flat.

1. You claimed salaries would never reach $190k.
Big Shrimpin wrote:"never."

2. I replied that saying salaries would never reach $190k made zero sense.
3. You articulated the reasons you felt I was incorrect in this well thought out, insightful, and well supported response:
Big Shrimpin wrote:You seem dumb.

4. I pointed out that you may need a lesson in entry level econ, as implying that salaries would never reach $190k was about as intelligent as saying the sun will never burn out.

Which brings us back to your current reply. Why don't you try again when you have something of even entry level intelligence to add.
:roll:

It appears that your I-am-the-gunner-you-hated-in-law-school list of facts excludes the following post:
Big Shrimpin wrote: Actually, 2nd year biglaw assoc. The business model has changed, partners are more greedy and clients have become much tighter on budgets and tend to micromanage. I don't have time to argue because I have been writing briefs all week, but the cash flow from clients isn't the unattended faucet it used to be. In house counsel scrutinizes bills, doesn't approve strategy lines, etc. And where revenues are creeping up, partners are grabbing more of the take. Throw on top of that discovery solutions services and case management outsourcing, the industry is moving, if in any direction, away from tossing extra coin to increased salaries for associates. Fuck, I mean much of the rapid increase in the mid-2000s was a big game of keeping up with the joneses. And the firms that have raised salaries are boutiques that provide special services or premium talent. Moreover, Lots of the grunt work 1-3rd years do can be farmed out to drones in a factory in WV or some other state where people are named "Bubba" making 80k/yr.

But I think BigShrimpin called you dumb because you went on a tiny rant about the accuracy of his clearly sarcastic remark. I tend to agree with him.

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:25 pm

zweitbester wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:
zweitbester wrote:
WhirledWorld wrote:If there's no reason to think bonuses will go up this year, why'd they jump so much last year?


Tons of growth at the top firms. Last year was batshit insane.


I would be elated if the market jumped (I'd love to buy myself a nice toy), but I've learned not to get my hopes up. This can only be understood when you've felt the weight of the billable hour for some time.


I'm with you here bro.

I have no doubt in my mind that bonuses won't be higher this year. If anything, I am prepared to get less this year than I did last year.


Are you lockstep? I have to imagine we'll go sideways at worst.

ipguy
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:17 am

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby ipguy » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:32 pm

seespotrun wrote:It appears that your I-am-the-gunner-you-hated-in-law-school list of facts excludes the following post:
Big Shrimpin wrote: Actually, 2nd year biglaw assoc. The business model has changed, partners are more greedy and clients have become much tighter on budgets and tend to micromanage. I don't have time to argue because I have been writing briefs all week, but the cash flow from clients isn't the unattended faucet it used to be. In house counsel scrutinizes bills, doesn't approve strategy lines, etc. And where revenues are creeping up, partners are grabbing more of the take. Throw on top of that discovery solutions services and case management outsourcing, the industry is moving, if in any direction, away from tossing extra coin to increased salaries for associates. Fuck, I mean much of the rapid increase in the mid-2000s was a big game of keeping up with the joneses. And the firms that have raised salaries are boutiques that provide special services or premium talent. Moreover, Lots of the grunt work 1-3rd years do can be farmed out to drones in a factory in WV or some other state where people are named "Bubba" making 80k/yr.

But I think BigShrimpin called you dumb because you went on a tiny rant about the accuracy of his clearly sarcastic remark. I tend to agree with him.


How does that have anything to do with inflation and the impact on salaries over the next 50 years?

And claiming it was sarcastic is the epitome of: http://wwwwwwwww.at/trolls/t/src/132754497469.png

Case in point, because it is still getting lost.

$160k in 2007 when it was introduced, is the equivalent of $180,476.31 in 2013. Salaries will reach $190k *at some point* period. "Running" here to post never, isn't sarcasm.
Last edited by ipguy on Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mephistopheles
Posts: 1947
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:43 am

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby mephistopheles » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:34 pm

ipguy wrote:
seespotrun wrote:It appears that your I-am-the-gunner-you-hated-in-law-school list of facts excludes the following post:
Big Shrimpin wrote: Actually, 2nd year biglaw assoc. The business model has changed, partners are more greedy and clients have become much tighter on budgets and tend to micromanage. I don't have time to argue because I have been writing briefs all week, but the cash flow from clients isn't the unattended faucet it used to be. In house counsel scrutinizes bills, doesn't approve strategy lines, etc. And where revenues are creeping up, partners are grabbing more of the take. Throw on top of that discovery solutions services and case management outsourcing, the industry is moving, if in any direction, away from tossing extra coin to increased salaries for associates. Fuck, I mean much of the rapid increase in the mid-2000s was a big game of keeping up with the joneses. And the firms that have raised salaries are boutiques that provide special services or premium talent. Moreover, Lots of the grunt work 1-3rd years do can be farmed out to drones in a factory in WV or some other state where people are named "Bubba" making 80k/yr.

But I think BigShrimpin called you dumb because you went on a tiny rant about the accuracy of his clearly sarcastic remark. I tend to agree with him.


How does that have anything to do with inflation and the impact on salaries over the next 50 years?

And claiming it was sarcastic is the epitome of: http://wwwwwwwww.at/trolls/t/src/132754497469.png



one of my favorite rage comics

User avatar
wiseowl
Posts: 1071
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:38 pm

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby wiseowl » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:35 pm

mother of christ this board is unreadable

User avatar
seespotrun
Posts: 2395
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:36 am

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby seespotrun » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:39 pm

ipguy wrote:
seespotrun wrote:It appears that your I-am-the-gunner-you-hated-in-law-school list of facts excludes the following post:
Big Shrimpin wrote: Actually, 2nd year biglaw assoc. The business model has changed, partners are more greedy and clients have become much tighter on budgets and tend to micromanage. I don't have time to argue because I have been writing briefs all week, but the cash flow from clients isn't the unattended faucet it used to be. In house counsel scrutinizes bills, doesn't approve strategy lines, etc. And where revenues are creeping up, partners are grabbing more of the take. Throw on top of that discovery solutions services and case management outsourcing, the industry is moving, if in any direction, away from tossing extra coin to increased salaries for associates. Fuck, I mean much of the rapid increase in the mid-2000s was a big game of keeping up with the joneses. And the firms that have raised salaries are boutiques that provide special services or premium talent. Moreover, Lots of the grunt work 1-3rd years do can be farmed out to drones in a factory in WV or some other state where people are named "Bubba" making 80k/yr.

But I think BigShrimpin called you dumb because you went on a tiny rant about the accuracy of his clearly sarcastic remark. I tend to agree with him.


How does that have anything to do with inflation and the impact on salaries over the next 50 years?

And claiming it was sarcastic is the epitome of: http://wwwwwwwww.at/trolls/t/src/132754497469.png

I interpreted it as sarcasm when I read his post yesterday just like everyone else who is not nitpicking his clearly sarcastic post.

User avatar
skers
Posts: 4950
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:33 am

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby skers » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:02 pm

ipguy wrote:
seespotrun wrote:It appears that your I-am-the-gunner-you-hated-in-law-school list of facts excludes the following post:
Big Shrimpin wrote: Actually, 2nd year biglaw assoc. The business model has changed, partners are more greedy and clients have become much tighter on budgets and tend to micromanage. I don't have time to argue because I have been writing briefs all week, but the cash flow from clients isn't the unattended faucet it used to be. In house counsel scrutinizes bills, doesn't approve strategy lines, etc. And where revenues are creeping up, partners are grabbing more of the take. Throw on top of that discovery solutions services and case management outsourcing, the industry is moving, if in any direction, away from tossing extra coin to increased salaries for associates. Fuck, I mean much of the rapid increase in the mid-2000s was a big game of keeping up with the joneses. And the firms that have raised salaries are boutiques that provide special services or premium talent. Moreover, Lots of the grunt work 1-3rd years do can be farmed out to drones in a factory in WV or some other state where people are named "Bubba" making 80k/yr.

But I think BigShrimpin called you dumb because you went on a tiny rant about the accuracy of his clearly sarcastic remark. I tend to agree with him.


How does that have anything to do with inflation and the impact on salaries over the next 50 years?

And claiming it was sarcastic is the epitome of: http://wwwwwwwww.at/trolls/t/src/132754497469.png

Case in point, because it is still getting lost.

$160k in 2007 when it was introduced, is the equivalent of $180,476.31 in 2013. Salaries will reach $190k *at some point* period. "Running" here to post never, isn't sarcasm.


In the year 2150 when 1st year salaries finally hit 190k the floating head of ipguy will be able to smugly say I told you so.

User avatar
Old Gregg
Posts: 5413
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:26 pm

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby Old Gregg » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:02 pm

ipguy wrote:
zweitbester wrote:
ipguy wrote:
Danger Zone wrote:y u mad tho

I'm not, just enjoying a good laugh on a friday at the expense of clown-ship esquire.

:lol:


Idk brofessor, you sound like you need to rage dump some more


After the mexican I had for lunch I will certainly be rage dumping soon


Sounds like you're already doing it in this thread. I don't know if your parents taught you this, but you do that outside.

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:39 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:
ipguy wrote:
seespotrun wrote:It appears that your I-am-the-gunner-you-hated-in-law-school list of facts excludes the following post:
Big Shrimpin wrote: Actually, 2nd year biglaw assoc. The business model has changed, partners are more greedy and clients have become much tighter on budgets and tend to micromanage. I don't have time to argue because I have been writing briefs all week, but the cash flow from clients isn't the unattended faucet it used to be. In house counsel scrutinizes bills, doesn't approve strategy lines, etc. And where revenues are creeping up, partners are grabbing more of the take. Throw on top of that discovery solutions services and case management outsourcing, the industry is moving, if in any direction, away from tossing extra coin to increased salaries for associates. Fuck, I mean much of the rapid increase in the mid-2000s was a big game of keeping up with the joneses. And the firms that have raised salaries are boutiques that provide special services or premium talent. Moreover, Lots of the grunt work 1-3rd years do can be farmed out to drones in a factory in WV or some other state where people are named "Bubba" making 80k/yr.

But I think BigShrimpin called you dumb because you went on a tiny rant about the accuracy of his clearly sarcastic remark. I tend to agree with him.


How does that have anything to do with inflation and the impact on salaries over the next 50 years?

And claiming it was sarcastic is the epitome of: http://wwwwwwwww.at/trolls/t/src/132754497469.png

Case in point, because it is still getting lost.

$160k in 2007 when it was introduced, is the equivalent of $180,476.31 in 2013. Salaries will reach $190k *at some point* period. "Running" here to post never, isn't sarcasm.


In the year 2150 when 1st year salaries finally hit 190k the floating head of ipguy will be able to smugly say I told you so.


Poor kid could never make it in the outside world.

ipguy
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:17 am

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby ipguy » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:55 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:Poor kid could never make it in the outside world.

*kid* has been making it in the outside world longer than you've been driving... kid.

User avatar
SemperLegal
Posts: 1333
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:28 pm

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby SemperLegal » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:58 pm

ipguy wrote:
seespotrun wrote:It appears that your I-am-the-gunner-you-hated-in-law-school list of facts excludes the following post:
Big Shrimpin wrote: Actually, 2nd year biglaw assoc. The business model has changed, partners are more greedy and clients have become much tighter on budgets and tend to micromanage. I don't have time to argue because I have been writing briefs all week, but the cash flow from clients isn't the unattended faucet it used to be. In house counsel scrutinizes bills, doesn't approve strategy lines, etc. And where revenues are creeping up, partners are grabbing more of the take. Throw on top of that discovery solutions services and case management outsourcing, the industry is moving, if in any direction, away from tossing extra coin to increased salaries for associates. Fuck, I mean much of the rapid increase in the mid-2000s was a big game of keeping up with the joneses. And the firms that have raised salaries are boutiques that provide special services or premium talent. Moreover, Lots of the grunt work 1-3rd years do can be farmed out to drones in a factory in WV or some other state where people are named "Bubba" making 80k/yr.

But I think BigShrimpin called you dumb because you went on a tiny rant about the accuracy of his clearly sarcastic remark. I tend to agree with him.


How does that have anything to do with inflation and the impact on salaries over the next 50 years?

And claiming it was sarcastic is the epitome of: http://wwwwwwwww.at/trolls/t/src/132754497469.png

Case in point, because it is still getting lost.

$160k in 2007 when it was introduced, is the equivalent of $180,476.31 in 2013. Salaries will reach $190k *at some point* period. "Running" here to post never, isn't sarcasm.


Save some bergers for the rest of us.

User avatar
Old Gregg
Posts: 5413
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:26 pm

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby Old Gregg » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:59 pm

ipguy wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:Poor kid could never make it in the outside world.

*kid* has been making it in the outside world longer than you've been driving... kid.


Surviving more than 5 minutes on GTA online doesn't count.

User avatar
Danger Zone
Posts: 7310
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:36 am

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby Danger Zone » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:23 pm

zweitbester wrote:
ipguy wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:Poor kid could never make it in the outside world.

*kid* has been making it in the outside world longer than you've been driving... kid.


Surviving more than 5 minutes on GTA online doesn't count.

But with all the griefers, that is a fucking accomplishment.

keg411
Posts: 5935
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby keg411 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:57 pm

My guess is it will be flat from the lockstep bonus firms. Cahill will give their extra $10k. K&E and the other blackbox/merit bonus firms will do their thing... whether that's good or bad depends on way more than I need to care about; although it will probably be good if you're at K&E. Quinn and a couple other firms will have their hours-based tiers. Sounds like STB might give an increase, but if they do I doubt it will be anything dramatic.

We're not going back to 2007 and the land of double-bonuses any time soon. It's just reality.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273454
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm at STB (new associate) and can confirm that there have been whispers that we may beat the Cravath scale this year--whispers from two partners independently, not from associates. Still only rumors, and I am expecting us to match Cravath, but it's at least possible that we won't. I certainly don't think Cravath will raise bonuses. What happens if STB (or somewhere else that normally follows Cravath) beats the Cravath scale is harder to predict.

I can very easily believe this -- seems like every other deal I'm on has STB on the other side.

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:35 pm

This thread, and many others, just confirm that TLS is like 95% aspie private school kids with no social skills.

User avatar
Old Gregg
Posts: 5413
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:26 pm

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby Old Gregg » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:47 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:This thread, and many others, just confirm that TLS is like 95% aspie private school kids with no social skills.


You have to keep in mind the kind of person who survives long in big law is precisely this kind of person. He'll make it to year 8, and then get axed because he can't develop a book and can't be put in front of a client. However, give him 300 signature pages, and he will happily work until 4am and pad his hours so he can condescendingly tell you precisely where the periods and commas are missing.

Sadly, the kind of person you'd want to promote to partner (i.e., one who can develop client relationships, yet one who is also exceptional in work product) is likely someone who is too entrepreneurial for big law. He will seek an exit the moment he senses he's being led on by the powers that be, assuming that said powers don't already axe him because they feel threatened by him (yes, this happens too). Keep in mind, he will also be a flight risk because he will be falling on job offers left and right, whether he wants them or not.

At the end of the day, the associate most likely to make partner is one who is entrepreneurial, but not so much that they're a flight risk, and smart. Dude must strike a perfect balance.

When you look at partnership promotion numbers, it makes sense why the numbers are so daunting. The truly talented, sociable, engaging and entrepreneurial people are leaving voluntarily, and you can't "pity counsel" the as pie 8th year who has 200 pimples concealed by a grotesque neck beard from spending hours in his office spotting commas because of ITE, so you axe him. There's not much left in an associate class, especially an 8th year class, when those two types can't be promoted.

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby Big Shrimpin » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:49 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:This thread, and many others, just confirm that TLS is like 95% aspie private school kids with no social skills.


YURP

User avatar
Anastasia Dee Dualla
Posts: 1165
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:03 am

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby Anastasia Dee Dualla » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:15 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
mephistopheles wrote:when are we going to see 190k?


not for a very long time

bonuses will be flat. sorry guys.


Ran here to poast this, although I would change the first line I "never."


I would imagine that as firms try to deal with the "I'm not paying a first year to work on this mentality" they might keep first year salaries static and raise 2nd and 3rd year rates. But that also seems unlikely.

run26.2
Posts: 897
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:35 am

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby run26.2 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:16 am

zweitbester wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:This thread, and many others, just confirm that TLS is like 95% aspie private school kids with no social skills.


You have to keep in mind the kind of person who survives long in big law is precisely this kind of person. He'll make it to year 8, and then get axed because he can't develop a book and can't be put in front of a client. However, give him 300 signature pages, and he will happily work until 4am and pad his hours so he can condescendingly tell you precisely where the periods and commas are missing.

Sadly, the kind of person you'd want to promote to partner (i.e., one who can develop client relationships, yet one who is also exceptional in work product) is likely someone who is too entrepreneurial for big law. He will seek an exit the moment he senses he's being led on by the powers that be, assuming that said powers don't already axe him because they feel threatened by him (yes, this happens too). Keep in mind, he will also be a flight risk because he will be falling on job offers left and right, whether he wants them or not.

At the end of the day, the associate most likely to make partner is one who is entrepreneurial, but not so much that they're a flight risk, and smart. Dude must strike a perfect balance.

When you look at partnership promotion numbers, it makes sense why the numbers are so daunting. The truly talented, sociable, engaging and entrepreneurial people are leaving voluntarily, and you can't "pity counsel" the as pie 8th year who has 200 pimples concealed by a grotesque neck beard from spending hours in his office spotting commas because of ITE, so you axe him. There's not much left in an associate class, especially an 8th year class, when those two types can't be promoted.

This is an excellent analysis. I agree with most, if not all, of it based on numerous discussions of the paths to partnership with several attorneys at my firm.

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:58 pm

Anybody hear anything (substantiated) about bonuses yet?

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby Big Shrimpin » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:45 pm

Radio silence. I'm expecting it'll be end of the month/early Dec.

User avatar
Old Gregg
Posts: 5413
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:26 pm

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby Old Gregg » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:46 pm

If it's good, Cravath will announce before Thanksgiving. If bad, after.

User avatar
Lincoln
Posts: 1032
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby Lincoln » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:09 am

WhirledWorld wrote:Post-Recession Bonuses

2009 Bonus Scale:

Class of 2008 — $7,500
Class of 2007 — $10,000
Class of 2006 — $15,000
Class of 2005 — $20,000
Class of 2004 — $25,000
Class of 2003 — $30,000
Class of 2002 — $30,000

2010 Bonus Scale:

Class of 2009 – $7,500
Class of 2008 — $10,000
Class of 2007 — $15,000
Class of 2006 — $20,000
Class of 2005 — $25,000
Class of 2004 — $30,000
Class of 2003 — $35,000

2011 Bonus Scale:

Class of 2010 — $7,500
Class of 2009 — $10,000
Class of 2008 — $15,000
Class of 2007 — $20,000
Class of 2006 — $25,000
Class of 2005 — $30,000
Class of 2004 — $37,500

2012 Bonus Scale:

Class of 2012 — $10,000 (pro-rated)
Class of 2011 — $10,000
Class of 2010 — $14,000
Class of 2009 — $20,000
Class of 2008 — $27,000
Class of 2007 — $34,000
Class of 2006 — $40,000
Class of 2005 — $50,000
Class of 2004 — $60,000

Overall CAGR for the four years is between 7-8%.

If we assume they'll stick to the same growth rate, bonuses will be up by like $1000. If we assume they'll continue the increase from last year, bonuses will jump up a few thousand dollars. And if we assume that last year was just a one year correction to account for the increased PPP, bonuses will probably stay the same.


This ignores spring bonuses, no? Wasn't that in 2011?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273454
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:13 am

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Anybody hear anything (substantiated) about bonuses yet?


I'm at Cravath, and I haven't heard so much as a whisper.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.