Biglaw Bonus Watch (2013) Forum

[84651846190]

bone us

[Big Shrimpin]

bone us

I plan on it, breh.

Biglaw has tempered my expectations about everything. I've become a shell of a once hopeful creature.

[thesealocust]

FWIW, some of the twitter IPO press mentioned that this was one of the biggest years in the history of ever for debt & equity capital markets work.

Also, those mufti-billion dollar fines banks are hashing out with the feds almost certainly came after a gorillion man-hours of legal work...

HOPE. IT SPRINGS ETERNAL.

[Big Shrimpin]

I wanna believe. But I just, can't.

[thesealocust]

NY TO 190

I agree.

[Big Shrimpin]

YNY!

Edit: at this point, I'd take some cupcakes and/or cheap champagne in a disposable plastic flute.

[09042014]

NY TO 190

I agree.

TWIST: 190 hours per month to be bonus eligible.

[thesealocust]

Yay I'm bonus eligible!

[Old Gregg]

FWIW, some of the twitter IPO press mentioned that this was one of the biggest years in the history of ever for debt & equity capital markets work.

Also, those mufti-billion dollar fines banks are hashing out with the feds almost certainly came after a gorillion man-hours of legal work...

HOPE. IT SPRINGS ETERNAL.

Cream of the crop firms are doing extremely well. Still, no doubt in my mind that Cravath will keep bonuses in line.

[09042014]

I still cannot believe most firms don't give bonuses based on number of hours. Like 50-80 bucks for everything over 2000 hours and people would be going fucking nuts with billing.

[thesealocust]

I still cannot believe most firms don't give bonuses based on number of hours. Like 50-80 bucks for everything over 2000 hours and people would be going fucking nuts with billing.

Well, some (many? a lot of?) firms do.

The counterarguments have some weight though. It encourages inefficiency and/or padding and stands to foster a competitive rather than collaborative environment, especially when times are lean. It's also not always up to an associate how hard they work - junior lawyers aren't winning business and can only have so much say in the matters they get on and the pace at which that work comes.

My favorite rumor is that there are firms with ~STEALTH BONUSES~ for high billers. I've heard, through the grape vine (and if you know me, then no, it's not about my firm) that some firms will basically pick up the tab for an expensive vacation if you bill over X hours in the year. It's not cash and they're pretty serious about it being for R&R. Seems like a neat system to me.

[run26.2]

Citi's latest report is that growth in the legal industry has been anemic this year. Although certain firms have done better, I don't think they have done well enough (as an entire firm) to warrant trying to blow other firms out of the water with their bonuses in the name of attracting the best and the brightest.

My prediction is that bonuses will be the same for the lower end of the scale (say years 1-3).

[Big Shrimpin]

Yay I'm bonus eligible!

Woof.

[Old Gregg]

I still cannot believe most firms don't give bonuses based on number of hours. Like 50-80 bucks for everything over 2000 hours and people would be going fucking nuts with billing.

Well, some (many? a lot of?) firms do.

The counterarguments have some weight though. It encourages inefficiency and/or padding and stands to foster a competitive rather than collaborative environment, especially when times are lean. It's also not always up to an associate how hard they work - junior lawyers aren't winning business and can only have so much say in the matters they get on and the pace at which that work comes.

My favorite rumor is that there are firms with ~STEALTH BONUSES~ for high billers. I've heard, through the grape vine (and if you know me, then no, it's not about my firm) that some firms will basically pick up the tab for an expensive vacation if you bill over X hours in the year. It's not cash and they're pretty serious about it being for R&R. Seems like a neat system to me.

I know one that gives a three-figure restaurant gift card if you exceed a certain number of hours in a month.

It's a lifestyle firm, ironically. I've billed more than the threshold ever since I've started...

[run26.2]

I still cannot believe most firms don't give bonuses based on number of hours. Like 50-80 bucks for everything over 2000 hours and people would be going fucking nuts with billing.

Well, some (many? a lot of?) firms do.

The counterarguments have some weight though. It encourages inefficiency and/or padding and stands to foster a competitive rather than collaborative environment, especially when times are lean. It's also not always up to an associate how hard they work - junior lawyers aren't winning business and can only have so much say in the matters they get on and the pace at which that work comes.

My favorite rumor is that there are firms with ~STEALTH BONUSES~ for high billers. I've heard, through the grape vine (and if you know me, then no, it's not about my firm) that some firms will basically pick up the tab for an expensive vacation if you bill over X hours in the year. It's not cash and they're pretty serious about it being for R&R. Seems like a neat system to me.

I know one that gives a three-figure restaurant gift card if you exceed a certain number of hours in a month.

It's a lifestyle firm, ironically. I've billed more than the threshold ever since I've started...

I like that type of incentive, but it seems like a restaurant card would get old after awhile. How about just a prepaid spending card?

[Anonymous User]

I still cannot believe most firms don't give bonuses based on number of hours. Like 50-80 bucks for everything over 2000 hours and people would be going fucking nuts with billing.

Well, some (many? a lot of?) firms do.

The counterarguments have some weight though. It encourages inefficiency and/or padding and stands to foster a competitive rather than collaborative environment, especially when times are lean. It's also not always up to an associate how hard they work - junior lawyers aren't winning business and can only have so much say in the matters they get on and the pace at which that work comes.

My favorite rumor is that there are firms with ~STEALTH BONUSES~ for high billers. I've heard, through the grape vine (and if you know me, then no, it's not about my firm) that some firms will basically pick up the tab for an expensive vacation if you bill over X hours in the year. It's not cash and they're pretty serious about it being for R&R. Seems like a neat system to me.

I grew up broke and am still broke and it will be a while until I am not broke so I am not complaining and I realize that many people in the world have it much much worse -- however, the structure some (a lot of?) firms have where it's Cravath bonus at 2000 hours (fair enough), but then 10k for 2300 and 10k for 2500 is an absurdly weak (dis)incentive. That's $33 an hour assuming you bill literally every minute of that extra 300 hours, which you aren't going to do. Couple that with everything else that sucks in BigLaw (e.g. that you will be billing said hours at 1 am) and it's really just not worth it.

[Old Gregg]

I still cannot believe most firms don't give bonuses based on number of hours. Like 50-80 bucks for everything over 2000 hours and people would be going fucking nuts with billing.

Well, some (many? a lot of?) firms do.

The counterarguments have some weight though. It encourages inefficiency and/or padding and stands to foster a competitive rather than collaborative environment, especially when times are lean. It's also not always up to an associate how hard they work - junior lawyers aren't winning business and can only have so much say in the matters they get on and the pace at which that work comes.

My favorite rumor is that there are firms with ~STEALTH BONUSES~ for high billers. I've heard, through the grape vine (and if you know me, then no, it's not about my firm) that some firms will basically pick up the tab for an expensive vacation if you bill over X hours in the year. It's not cash and they're pretty serious about it being for R&R. Seems like a neat system to me.

I know one that gives a three-figure restaurant gift card if you exceed a certain number of hours in a month.

It's a lifestyle firm, ironically. I've billed more than the threshold ever since I've started...

I like that type of incentive, but it seems like a restaurant card would get old after awhile. How about just a prepaid spending card?

To be fair, it doesn't get old because associates rarely meet that threshold in a month.

[run26.2]

I still cannot believe most firms don't give bonuses based on number of hours. Like 50-80 bucks for everything over 2000 hours and people would be going fucking nuts with billing.

Well, some (many? a lot of?) firms do.

The counterarguments have some weight though. It encourages inefficiency and/or padding and stands to foster a competitive rather than collaborative environment, especially when times are lean. It's also not always up to an associate how hard they work - junior lawyers aren't winning business and can only have so much say in the matters they get on and the pace at which that work comes.

My favorite rumor is that there are firms with ~STEALTH BONUSES~ for high billers. I've heard, through the grape vine (and if you know me, then no, it's not about my firm) that some firms will basically pick up the tab for an expensive vacation if you bill over X hours in the year. It's not cash and they're pretty serious about it being for R&R. Seems like a neat system to me.

I grew up broke and am still broke and it will be a while until I am not broke so I am not complaining and I realize that many people in the world have it much much worse -- however, the structure some (a lot of?) firms have where it's Cravath bonus at 2000 hours (fair enough), but then 10k for 2300 and 10k for 2500 is an absurdly weak (dis)incentive. That's $33 an hour assuming you bill literally every minute of that extra 300 hours, which you aren't going to do. Couple that with everything else that sucks in BigLaw (e.g. that you will be billing said hours at 1 am) and it's really just not worth it.

This is a fair argument regarding the short-term tradeoff. However, most people will say that to have any chance of making partner in biglaw (as if there is much of a chance), you need to be amassing high annual billable totals from the time you are a mid-level associate onward.

[Old Gregg]

Every year top law school tuition goes higher and base salaries do not adjust for inflation, the more of a losing proposition it is to do biglaw. There will be a massive correction, but not within our associate careers. This is the reality you should accept so for now. If it makes you unhappy, rather than whine for a solution, you should be thinking creatively about making one on your own.

Law students, by their nature, aren't that creative. That's why this whole system has existed for as long as it has and the big change is still a ways away.

[thesealocust]

^ probably exactly accurate.

My creative solution remains planning to drop out of society and blog about Ron Paul '08~~ from a cabin in the woods.

[84651846190]

Every year top law school tuition goes higher and base salaries do not adjust for inflation, the more of a losing proposition it is to do biglaw. There will be a massive correction, but not within our associate careers. This is the reality you should accept so for now. If it makes you unhappy, rather than whine for a solution, you should be thinking creatively about making one on your own.

Law students, by their nature, aren't that creative. That's why this whole system has existed for as long as it has and the big change is still a ways away.

Does starting a Subway franchise count as "creative"?

[thesealocust]

Maybe biglaw salaries will be flat until it's no longer possible to get $5 footlongs?

[legends159]

hm...apparently Cahill gave summer bonuses again this year ($10K). How come they don't get more recognition and coverage? wouldn't that shame the Cravaths of the world to up the ante a little more?

[run26.2]

Every year top law school tuition goes higher and base salaries do not adjust for inflation, the more of a losing proposition it is to do biglaw. There will be a massive correction, but not within our associate careers. This is the reality you should accept so for now. If it makes you unhappy, rather than whine for a solution, you should be thinking creatively about making one on your own.

Law students, by their nature, aren't that creative. That's why this whole system has existed for as long as it has and the big change is still a ways away.

What do you mean by correction? Firms suddenly start paying more? I personally doubt that, but maybe you mean something else.

I would expect that a few would wander away from lockstep every year. But if anything, I think salaries will stratify, and flatten out the bimodal distribution somewhat. A few higher salary entry level positions will be created and many more positions below 160 will emerge.

[Old Gregg]

Every year top law school tuition goes higher and base salaries do not adjust for inflation, the more of a losing proposition it is to do biglaw. There will be a massive correction, but not within our associate careers. This is the reality you should accept so for now. If it makes you unhappy, rather than whine for a solution, you should be thinking creatively about making one on your own.

Law students, by their nature, aren't that creative. That's why this whole system has existed for as long as it has and the big change is still a ways away.

What do you mean by correction? Firms suddenly start paying more? I personally doubt that, but maybe you mean something else.

I would expect that a few would wander away from lockstep every year. But if anything, I think salaries will stratify, and flatten out the bimodal distribution somewhat. A few higher salary entry level positions will be created and many more positions below 160 will emerge.

Law firm salaries could still stay the same, but a huge correction in school tuition would still be considered a major raise.