Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

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Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:15 pm

So about a week ago I interviewed with a firm, and the topic on whether I received an offer from my past summer firm came up. I did not receive an offer. I was honest, and told them I didn't get one. We didn't really dive deep into why.

So, now I'm pretty worried that I am completely out of the running for a callback, much less an offer. The interview was going very well up until that point.

Am I doomed? Or is there a glimmer of hope on a callback which translates into an offer?


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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:26 pm

Danger Zone wrote:Tea leaves and what not.


Yeah, I'm still going to mass-mail regardless.

I'm working under the impression that question sunk any chance I had.

So, if I do get a callback then ***hooray*** but if I don't, then I'll just continue what I'm doing.

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Danger Zone » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm working under the impression that question sunk any chance I had.

Maybe, maybe not. Sorry bro, this whole process blows.

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:08 pm

I wonder how much of a difference it makes that my no-offer came when I was a 1L SA.

I was interviewing for a 2L SA.

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby brotherdarkness » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:57 pm

.
Last edited by brotherdarkness on Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:02 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I wonder how much of a difference it makes that my no-offer came when I was a 1L SA.

I was interviewing for a 2L SA.


I've read elsewhere that firms generally tend to find a no-offer after a 1L SA to be less of a red flag than a no-offer after a 2L SA. Some firms routinely no-offer 1L SAs, some don't. I assume you've already asked for a cold-offer and gone to a trusted associate to ask that (s)he would be willing to provide you with a recommendation?


I did not ask for a cold-offer. I know, it was stupid of me.

And yes, an associate that I was very close to me, and I trust, is willing to act as a reference.

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:24 pm

OP Here.

I guess my dim ray of hope is whether anyone has (1) personally had the issue of a 1L/2L no-offer come up during an interview and received a CB and offer anyways, or (2) knows of someone who went through that dilemma and received a CB & offer.

I just can't help but feel that firms will think that I'm damaged goods, and move on to the next candidate.

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:46 pm

You're speaking about such a low percentage of the populace - those who get a 1L SA position, and then another small percentage - those who get no offered that it'd be hard to get realistic advice.

The best thing would be if the other firms are in a different market, different practice area. If you find it's really hurting you, IDK you have to assess ethics versus your career.

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:51 am

I had a 1L SA at a large regional firm (~500 attorneys); got no offered.

I typically tried to downplay this as much as possible in my interviews this year but it came up pretty much every time. To be completely honest, the firm that no-offered was not a good fit for me anyways--so that's the story I stuck with. 1L SA--you live and you learn.

Regardless, I ended up with a V30 offer and while a big part of that is luck, there's hope for you. Keep your head up and keep pushing. Don't stop mass mailing and if possible, stop trying to over analyze... Most importantly, you did the right thing. Don't ever make things up or lie about getting no offered bc you never know who has friends where ... but you did the right thing. If you get an offer, it's because they want you regardless. If not, keep grinding.

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:I had a 1L SA at a large regional firm (~500 attorneys); got no offered.

I typically tried to downplay this as much as possible in my interviews this year but it came up pretty much every time. To be completely honest, the firm that no-offered was not a good fit for me anyways--so that's the story I stuck with. 1L SA--you live and you learn.

Regardless, I ended up with a V30 offer and while a big part of that is luck, there's hope for you. Keep your head up and keep pushing. Don't stop mass mailing and if possible, stop trying to over analyze... Most importantly, you did the right thing. Don't ever make things up or lie about getting no offered bc you never know who has friends where ... but you did the right thing. If you get an offer, it's because they want you regardless. If not, keep grinding.


Yeah, one of my classmates had said to say something like how I "withdrew consideration" before anyone made a decision. But I never feel comfortable saying stuff like that. I figured I'd be honest, play up the valuable experience I gained, and how I still respected my 1L firm and all of their attorneys.

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I had a 1L SA at a large regional firm (~500 attorneys); got no offered.

I typically tried to downplay this as much as possible in my interviews this year but it came up pretty much every time. To be completely honest, the firm that no-offered was not a good fit for me anyways--so that's the story I stuck with. 1L SA--you live and you learn.

Regardless, I ended up with a V30 offer and while a big part of that is luck, there's hope for you. Keep your head up and keep pushing. Don't stop mass mailing and if possible, stop trying to over analyze... Most importantly, you did the right thing. Don't ever make things up or lie about getting no offered bc you never know who has friends where ... but you did the right thing. If you get an offer, it's because they want you regardless. If not, keep grinding.


Yeah, one of my classmates had said to say something like how I "withdrew consideration" before anyone made a decision. But I never feel comfortable saying stuff like that. I figured I'd be honest, play up the valuable experience I gained, and how I still respected my 1L firm and all of their attorneys.


Also. for your current V30 offer, did the 1L no-offer topic come up during your interview?

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I had a 1L SA at a large regional firm (~500 attorneys); got no offered.

I typically tried to downplay this as much as possible in my interviews this year but it came up pretty much every time. To be completely honest, the firm that no-offered was not a good fit for me anyways--so that's the story I stuck with. 1L SA--you live and you learn.

Regardless, I ended up with a V30 offer and while a big part of that is luck, there's hope for you. Keep your head up and keep pushing. Don't stop mass mailing and if possible, stop trying to over analyze... Most importantly, you did the right thing. Don't ever make things up or lie about getting no offered bc you never know who has friends where ... but you did the right thing. If you get an offer, it's because they want you regardless. If not, keep grinding.


Yeah, one of my classmates had said to say something like how I "withdrew consideration" before anyone made a decision. But I never feel comfortable saying stuff like that. I figured I'd be honest, play up the valuable experience I gained, and how I still respected my 1L firm and all of their attorneys.


Also. for your current V30 offer, did the 1L no-offer topic come up during your interview?


Yeah, it came up briefly and I just did my best to explain the situation. I mean, as a 1L SA, especially at a regional firm (albeit a large one), no-offering is a much bigger thing (vs. most Biglaw firms and some of their typical 100% offer rates 2L summer). Thus, I suppose they didn't weigh it too much against me--although I'm sure it never looks good, sometimes a 1L no-offer is just out of your hands.

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I had a 1L SA at a large regional firm (~500 attorneys); got no offered.

I typically tried to downplay this as much as possible in my interviews this year but it came up pretty much every time. To be completely honest, the firm that no-offered was not a good fit for me anyways--so that's the story I stuck with. 1L SA--you live and you learn.

Regardless, I ended up with a V30 offer and while a big part of that is luck, there's hope for you. Keep your head up and keep pushing. Don't stop mass mailing and if possible, stop trying to over analyze... Most importantly, you did the right thing. Don't ever make things up or lie about getting no offered bc you never know who has friends where ... but you did the right thing. If you get an offer, it's because they want you regardless. If not, keep grinding.


Yeah, one of my classmates had said to say something like how I "withdrew consideration" before anyone made a decision. But I never feel comfortable saying stuff like that. I figured I'd be honest, play up the valuable experience I gained, and how I still respected my 1L firm and all of their attorneys.


Also. for your current V30 offer, did the 1L no-offer topic come up during your interview?


Yeah, it came up briefly and I just did my best to explain the situation. I mean, as a 1L SA, especially at a regional firm (albeit a large one), no-offering is a much bigger thing (vs. most Biglaw firms and some of their typical 100% offer rates 2L summer). Thus, I suppose they didn't weigh it too much against me--although I'm sure it never looks good, sometimes a 1L no-offer is just out of your hands.


Is there any truth to a firm preferring to bring in a new 2L over giving a 1L a return offer, when the 1L had some mixed reviews?

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:37 pm

I am graduated already, but I never understood why just lying about your offer is a problem when interviewing with a firm with many candidates. Look at it this way: The chances of them actually calling your old firm are low, and the chances that they flat out ask your firm whether you have an offer instead of just asking whether you're psychotic or not is even lower. In the off chance they ask, you're dinged immediately but... if you flat out say you don't have an offer there is a high chance you'll be dinged immediately given all the other interviewees of which a substantial number were not no offered. So the way I see it:

Lying: Low chance you get auto-ding.
Not lying: High chance you get auto-ding.

Yeah, I'd just lie.

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:22 am

BarbellDreams wrote:I am graduated already, but I never understood why just lying about your offer is a problem when interviewing with a firm with many candidates. Look at it this way: The chances of them actually calling your old firm are low, and the chances that they flat out ask your firm whether you have an offer instead of just asking whether you're psychotic or not is even lower. In the off chance they ask, you're dinged immediately but... if you flat out say you don't have an offer there is a high chance you'll be dinged immediately given all the other interviewees of which a substantial number were not no offered. So the way I see it:

Lying: Low chance you get auto-ding.
Not lying: High chance you get auto-ding.

Yeah, I'd just lie.


Sure, that's an option--and 9/10 times, you're probably right. But definitely weigh the consequences if you're going to go down this road. Imagine, on the off chance, that someone knows someone who knows someone else (maybe not in NYC market but definitely more likely the smaller the market goes) and it gets out that you lied about an offer. IMHO that would be a quick, solid way to get blacklisted at multiple firms and it'll spread like wildfire (I can't find the link but there was a guy who lied about resume in investment banking and got blacklisted at almost every bank within 24 hours)... and you'll probably have to completely change markets just to get away from that stigma. I don't know--it's a personal call depending on how much of a risk you're willing to take. But personally, I wouldn't risk it.

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Danger Zone » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:46 am

Here ya go (LinkRemoved).

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby SouthernGent » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:29 am

Danger Zone wrote:Here ya go (LinkRemoved).


Exactly. What he said ^

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:50 am

Although I'm going to stick with telling the truth, the JC example is probably the exception.

JC not only lied about getting an offer, he also fabricated evidence about the fake offer. I mean I think that's a step above from saying, "Yeah, I have an offer from firm X."

Like the other poster said, 9/10 times, you'd probably be fine. And the JC example is quite egregious.

But, for my personality, I just can't bring myself to lie. So, although my short-term career goals will take a definite hit, I just don't want to gamble with the chance of something terrible happening.

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Re: Question about No-Offer--Screener to CB?

Postby Danger Zone » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:00 am

They probably asked him to send proof of the offer, and then he was fucked so he made the email up. Don't put yourself in that position.




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