Small class sizes

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Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Small class sizes

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:01 pm

seems that all the firms i've done CBs with in multiple markets have tiny class sizes, even only 1 SA per office per summer. i'm done with my CBs and already got some dings...really frustrating because i've been told they just have to reject ppl for no good reason to get their class size. any advice on how to deal with this? T25, above median but below top 30%, secondary journal, moot court, work experience

feel like the barn door has closed anyway (or maybe something will work out), but also i just feel the need to vent. hard reading stories about people turning down a whole bunch of offers and still getting chased by firms, when i'm sure plenty of them are dumber and less-personable than i am

Anonymous User
Posts: 273186
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Small class sizes

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:seems that all the firms i've done CBs with in multiple markets have tiny class sizes, even only 1 SA per office per summer. i'm done with my CBs and already got some dings...really frustrating because i've been told they just have to reject ppl for no good reason to get their class size. any advice on how to deal with this? T25, above median but below top 30%, secondary journal, moot court, work experience

feel like the barn door has closed anyway (or maybe something will work out), but also i just feel the need to vent. hard reading stories about people turning down a whole bunch of offers and still getting chased by firms, when i'm sure plenty of them are dumber and less-personable than i am


hey I'm in the exact same position as you, still waiting on two CBs but not expecting anything. I'm checking symplicity every day and applying to small firms. There are a lot of good firms that hire SAs that have barely started to look plus accounting firms and in house positions. Keep your head up!! Our grades are pretty decent we should be able to get SOMETHING.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mr.hands
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:23 pm

Re: Small class sizes

Postby mr.hands » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:07 pm

It's really difficult when firms have only 4-8 summer associates. You get dinged for seemingly meaningless reasons. I applied exclusively to firms with small class sizes and I got rejected from 5 callbacks before I found anything. (Each of them had between 1 and 8 summer associates).

Don't take it personally. This process is inherently arbitrary and that's compounded when you're applying to firms with small class sizes. Keep churning away and keep your chin up. It'll work out.

echooo23
Posts: 265
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Re: Small class sizes

Postby echooo23 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:09 pm

Once you get the SA offer, does a small class affect the offer rate? In other words, is someone in a small class size more or less likely to get no offered than someone in a big class?

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bk1
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Re: Small class sizes

Postby bk1 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:any advice on how to deal with this?

Keep mass mailing. Stop spending time worrying about places you've already interviewed at and focus on applying to more firms. The only way to deal with small class sizes is to ideally target firms with large class sizes (this is why people say that marginal candidates should target NYC), but that is moot advice for you at this point.

echooo23 wrote:Once you get the SA offer, does a small class affect the offer rate? In other words, is someone in a small class size more or less likely to get no offered than someone in a big class?

A small class size does not necessarily affect offer rate. That said, firms with small class sizes tend to be ones with lower offer rates (think of the V10 NYC firms with 100ish or more summers that have 100% offer rates). On top of that, a firm with a small class is likely more vulnerable to market fluctuations. If a firm is huge and has 50+ summers, that firm is going to need to experience a fairly sizable economic shock before it starts no offering due to economics since it can probably absorb more summers due to its size and the fact that each summer is a smaller percentage of their expenses. A firm that has only 1 summer? That summer probably represents a much larger expense (percentage-wise) for the firm and thus is more vulnerable to economic shocks. This is just generalizing though as there are some firms with small class sizes that consistently do have high or 100% offer rates.

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mephistopheles
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Re: Small class sizes

Postby mephistopheles » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:when i'm sure plenty of them are dumber and less-personable than i am



sure sounds like it

Anonymous User
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Re: Small class sizes

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:11 pm

the offer rates for firms with small class sizes can be misleading. no-offering one dude from a class of 5 looks way worse than doing it to a class of 50 or 100, when that dude could have potentially been no-offered anywhere.

In general, you should probably aim for the firms with 100% offer rate but the offer rates do not tell the whole story. there are a lot of good people who get no offered for arbitrary reasons or pissing off the wrong person etc., but you also would not believe some of the incredible shit summers do. the law tends to attract some weird, weird characters. naturally, the ultra-aspies are always stunned when they get no-offered because it couldn't possibly be their fault. with few exceptions, law students are overwhelmingly intolerable, and compound the issue by constantly overrating how personable they are.

no offering summers for non-economic reasons, is as bad for some firms, as it is for the student, and is not a decision they make lightly.

i've been involved in a class with a no-offer, and the first thing i wondered upon meeting the person was how s/he could have possibly made it through the screener and callback.

that said, i generally don't agree with firms no-offering summers, unless absolutely necessary.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Small class sizes

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:51 pm

I'm top five people at a T1 in a state (think NC/GA/SC) where literally every big firm either has no summer class or 1-3 spots. I've struck out at OCI except have 1 pending. Honestly I cannot figure out what the basis is and I think a lot of it comes down to minor differences.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Small class sizes

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:35 am

really appreciate the support, and not surprised the problem is common. i targeted many different biglaw firms, got a decent conversion rate of screeners to CBs if not great, but just happened that all of them had small class sizes.

not an issue of getting no-offered but of getting the SA...on to mass mailing i spose and hoping for holdouts.

lol i know what i said sounded asinine but we all know how many morons in law school do well, and how antisocial a lot of people here are

iplulzer
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:43 am

Re: Small class sizes

Postby iplulzer » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:58 pm

mephistopheles wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:when i'm sure plenty of them are dumber and less-personable than i am



sure sounds like it




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