Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

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NJPitcher
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby NJPitcher » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:01 pm

IAFG wrote:
what to do wrote:
IAFG wrote:Or people who know tell other people at the law school and you are just "guy who reports to ATL" among all your peers.


I feel like you're scared a lot.

Having good judgment and knowing when to STFU are pretty crucial traits in a lawyer. No one wants to hire or work with a leaker.


People like you are how Jerry Sandusky happens.

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IAFG
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:04 pm

NJPitcher wrote:
IAFG wrote:
what to do wrote:
IAFG wrote:Or people who know tell other people at the law school and you are just "guy who reports to ATL" among all your peers.


I feel like you're scared a lot.

Having good judgment and knowing when to STFU are pretty crucial traits in a lawyer. No one wants to hire or work with a leaker.


People like you are how Jerry Sandusky happens.

That's stupid on a couple of levels, but particularly that it's like reporting Sandusky to TMZ.

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thesealocust
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby thesealocust » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:22 pm

NJPitcher wrote:
IAFG wrote:
what to do wrote:
IAFG wrote:Or people who know tell other people at the law school and you are just "guy who reports to ATL" among all your peers.


I feel like you're scared a lot.

Having good judgment and knowing when to STFU are pretty crucial traits in a lawyer. No one wants to hire or work with a leaker.


People like you are how Jerry Sandusky happens.


LAW STUDENTS, ASSEMBLE! SPOT THE FLAWS IN THE LOGIC!

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:27 pm

IAFG wrote:Or people who know tell other people at the law school and you are just "guy who reports to ATL" among all your peers.

Wait, what's wrong with reporting stuff to ATL?

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OneMoreLawHopeful
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:32 pm

thesealocust wrote:Here's the nightmare scenario:
...


This seems HIGHLY unlikely. What seems far more likely is that the recruiting staff at Kasowitz will be "dealt with" for being unable to accurately predict yields and/or generally screwing up. Given that it's on ATL, and there may be NALP repercussions, I wouldn't be surprised if a junior person (someone with a title like "HR Assistant") even ended up out of a job.

It also seems unlikely that other firms would withdraw offers from someone who already has a track record of telling ATL about their withdrawn offers (to say nothing of other recruiters not really wanting to listen to the Kasowitz recruiting department whine about how it's "not fair" that they are bad at their jobs).

There's also the whole issue about the divide between recruiters and lawyers that exists at most large firms. It's 100% accurate that a recruiter can absolutely screw your chances pre-SA, but if someone has an offer for an SA postition, and they accept it, the recruiter's input becomes severely restrained. How the lawyers at the firm rate the summer associate's performance becomes much more important. It's really hard to believe that the determining factor in being offered/no-offered will be what a recruiter heard from a failed colleague, a year prior, over brunch, especially when said failed colleague had a reason to sling sour grapes in the first place.

It's far more likely that a partner who was removed from this entire situation will review a bunch of assessments filed by likewise-removed-from-the-situation associates, relating to performance over the summer, without recruiter input at all, and use that as the basis for offer/no-offer.

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IAFG
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:38 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
IAFG wrote:Or people who know tell other people at the law school and you are just "guy who reports to ATL" among all your peers.

Wait, what's wrong with reporting stuff to ATL?

Would you be comfortable with your firm knowing you reported another firm to ATL in the past?

Anonymous User
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:42 pm

Would you be comfortable if the only firm you had an offer from took it away? Who the fuck cares what happens to the person who wrote it. Let's just hope firms won't do it again.

09042014
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby 09042014 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:46 pm

Image

Nobody wants an associate leaking shit to the press. It's arguably justified here, but you still don't want someone on your payroll who is inclined to do it.

Liam
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Liam » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:47 pm

IAFG wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
IAFG wrote:Or people who know tell other people at the law school and you are just "guy who reports to ATL" among all your peers.

Wait, what's wrong with reporting stuff to ATL?

Would you be comfortable with your firm knowing you reported another firm to ATL in the past?


Depends on what that person reported.

Discretion isn't an all-or-nothing trait. To the contrary, someone who wouldn't ordinarily talk to ATL about vacant crap like a partner being drunk, but who also understands that Kasowitz's bullshit merits public discussion, seems to be demonstrating quite a bit of discretion.

p1arnold
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby p1arnold » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:49 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Nobody wants an associate leaking shit to the press. It's arguably justified here, but you still don't want someone on your payroll who is inclined to do it.


Theres a difference between leaking something to the press about a firm that deserves no loyalty from you after reneging an offer, with leaking something while employed by a firm that may hurt that firm.

p1arnold
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby p1arnold » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:51 pm

OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Here's the nightmare scenario:
...


This seems HIGHLY unlikely. What seems far more likely is that the recruiting staff at Kasowitz will be "dealt with" for being unable to accurately predict yields and/or generally screwing up. Given that it's on ATL, and there may be NALP repercussions, I wouldn't be surprised if a junior person (someone with a title like "HR Assistant") even ended up out of a job.

It also seems unlikely that other firms would withdraw offers from someone who already has a track record of telling ATL about their withdrawn offers (to say nothing of other recruiters not really wanting to listen to the Kasowitz recruiting department whine about how it's "not fair" that they are bad at their jobs).

There's also the whole issue about the divide between recruiters and lawyers that exists at most large firms. It's 100% accurate that a recruiter can absolutely screw your chances pre-SA, but if someone has an offer for an SA postition, and they accept it, the recruiter's input becomes severely restrained. How the lawyers at the firm rate the summer associate's performance becomes much more important. It's really hard to believe that the determining factor in being offered/no-offered will be what a recruiter heard from a failed colleague, a year prior, over brunch, especially when said failed colleague had a reason to sling sour grapes in the first place.

It's far more likely that a partner who was removed from this entire situation will review a bunch of assessments filed by likewise-removed-from-the-situation associates, relating to performance over the summer, without recruiter input at all, and use that as the basis for offer/no-offer.


Agreed. And judging from the way they went about this, I think they were less than professional. There are many different ways to handle this situation better. Kasowitz might be better off with a new legal recruiting department.

09042014
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby 09042014 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:52 pm

p1arnold wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Nobody wants an associate leaking shit to the press. It's arguably justified here, but you still don't want someone on your payroll who is inclined to do it.


Theres a difference between leaking something to the press about a firm that deserves no loyalty from you after reneging an offer, with leaking something while employed by a firm that may hurt that firm.


I wouldn't hire anyone who sent that much detail to ATL. Playing with fire.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:52 pm

IAFG wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
IAFG wrote:Or people who know tell other people at the law school and you are just "guy who reports to ATL" among all your peers.

Wait, what's wrong with reporting stuff to ATL?

Would you be comfortable with your firm knowing you reported another firm to ATL in the past?

As long as the information given to ATL was truthful and the behavior of the firm was shady, yes.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:54 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Image

Nobody wants an associate leaking shit to the press. It's arguably justified here, but you still don't want someone on your payroll who is inclined to do it.


You're assuming they would behave similarly once they are associates. I don't think this is a fair assumption. You inevitably develop more loyalty toward people you actually work with rather than people you met for 20 minutes during a short interview.

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IAFG
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:55 pm

If you leak shady behavior as a law student, will you leak what you percieve to be shady behavior you witness at your firm?

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IAFG
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:56 pm

p1arnold wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Nobody wants an associate leaking shit to the press. It's arguably justified here, but you still don't want someone on your payroll who is inclined to do it.


Theres a difference between leaking something to the press about a firm that deserves no loyalty from you after reneging an offer, with leaking something while employed by a firm that may hurt that firm.

It's absolutely different. But why risk it? If a person is willing to talk to ATL in one set of circumstances, it's at least more likely they fall into the camp of people who would also rat out their own firm.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:59 pm

IAFG wrote:If you leak shady behavior as a law student, will you leak what you percieve to be shady behavior you witness at your firm?


I think the latter is not nearly as likely. Even if you witness shady behavior at your firm, you're likely to have friends who you are loyal to who work at the firm. You're much likely to reveal something damaging about the firm because you care about hurting these peoples' careers.

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IAFG
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:02 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
IAFG wrote:If you leak shady behavior as a law student, will you leak what you percieve to be shady behavior you witness at your firm?


I think the latter is not nearly as likely. Even if you witness shady behavior at your firm, you're likely to have friends who you are loyal to who work at the firm. You're much likely to reveal something damaging about the firm because you care about hurting these peoples' careers.

Would you bet your reputation on someone who leaked to ATL in one situation not leaking again in a different one?

Anonymous User
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:02 pm

my friend who got said call from Kasowitz did not get any sort of 24 hour deadline. And they did not say they were taking the offer away. They just strongly suggested that the offeree consider NOT accepting. So my friend declined immediately. Probably would have declined anyway though.

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Old Gregg
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Old Gregg » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:04 pm

IAFG wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
IAFG wrote:If you leak shady behavior as a law student, will you leak what you percieve to be shady behavior you witness at your firm?


I think the latter is not nearly as likely. Even if you witness shady behavior at your firm, you're likely to have friends who you are loyal to who work at the firm. You're much likely to reveal something damaging about the firm because you care about hurting these peoples' careers.

Would you bet your reputation on someone who leaked to ATL in one situation not leaking again in a different one?


You're being a little dramatic ITT, and either way the reasoning is fallacious.

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thesealocust
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby thesealocust » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:04 pm

The long and short of it is, firms have like 80,000,000 qualified, bright, over-eager choices. Why increase the risk that some will see you as a risk - even if the unreasonably see you as a risk?

Anonymous User
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:05 pm

IAFG wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
IAFG wrote:If you leak shady behavior as a law student, will you leak what you percieve to be shady behavior you witness at your firm?


I think the latter is not nearly as likely. Even if you witness shady behavior at your firm, you're likely to have friends who you are loyal to who work at the firm. You're much likely to reveal something damaging about the firm because you care about hurting these peoples' careers.

Would you bet your reputation on someone who leaked to ATL in one situation not leaking again in a different one?


you can speculate about me all you want. I shouldn't have named names, people are right about that. I didn't know ATL would copy and paste my entire email, but it's okay. That's on me and I will learn from it. I emailed again and asked for her name to be taken down, but no response yet. However, I stand by my decision to leak this so it wouldn't happen to other students again (hopefully). I already tried OCS. If it were you and your friends, you might have the conviction to get over the fear of potential consequences in your own career to help out the career of (many) others.

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Nelson
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Nelson » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:05 pm

Man you guys have some kind of weird law firm Stockholm syndrome siding with management on this one. He/she whistleblew on a firm breaking hiring rules in an unethical way.

ETA: hiring "guidelines", not rules
Last edited by Nelson on Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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IAFG
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:07 pm

Leaker, I am not speculating about you as a person or what course of conduct you might engage in in the future. I am just saying, I think people have negative opinions about the class of people who leak to ATL.

Anonymous User
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:09 pm

Nelson wrote:Man you guys have some kind of weird law firm Stockholm syndrome siding with management on this one. He/she whistleblew on a firm breaking hiring rules in an unethical way.

ETA: hiring "guidelines", not rules


+1

honestly I am not surprised this is on ATL . It was a topic of discussion this week at my top 5 law school. Perfectly legitimate and true gossip. Isn't that what blogs are for - to report on what people are gossiping about? IMO its a way better story than the stupid crap they write about lawyers' personal relationships and real estate.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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