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Fresh Prince wrote:

KidStuddi wrote:

hoos89 wrote: Except in Contracts we also learned about firm offers, which are irrevocable before a certain date, and law firm offers are supposed to be just that: firm. Kasowitz should have planned better and not given out so many offers. This probably happened because other firms chose to give out fewer offers, or to pace the rate of offers. Kasowitz probably should have had some warning of this, but they were totally blindsided.

Out of curiosity, what'd you get in contracts? Because an offer for at-will employment is most certainly not an irrevocable offer in the contract law sense. Like at all.
The 28 day period is the result of benevolent NALP guidance and nothing more.

The last thing this thread needs is legal arguments.

Of course not. Why would a forum full of lawyers and aspiring lawyers care about blatant misstatements of the law.

KidStuddi wrote: Of course not. Why would a forum full of lawyers and aspiring lawyers care about blatant misstatements of the law.

You're reminding me why I hate law students.

outsidethescope wrote:

KidStuddi wrote: Of course not. Why would a forum full of lawyers and aspiring lawyers care about blatant misstatements of the law.

You're reminding me why I hate law students.

Glad to do my part.

KidStuddi wrote:

hoos89 wrote: Except in Contracts we also learned about firm offers, which are irrevocable before a certain date, and law firm offers are supposed to be just that: firm. Kasowitz should have planned better and not given out so many offers. This probably happened because other firms chose to give out fewer offers, or to pace the rate of offers. Kasowitz probably should have had some warning of this, but they were totally blindsided.

Out of curiosity, what'd you get in contracts? Because an offer for at-will employment is most certainly not an irrevocable offer in the contract law sense. Like at all.
The 28 day period is the result of benevolent NALP guidance and nothing more.

Yea people aren't so concerned about Kasowitz breaking any laws as just coming across as totally unprofessional and slimy. That dude doesn't quite understand at-will employment in America, but he does understand general legal hiring, and in the general legal hiring world Kasowitz looks terribly unprofessional.

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Stop being an apologist. Obviously this is better than no-offering summers. You know what's even better than this outcome? Not getting too greedy and offering too many "must have" candidates at once. This is an easy problem to avoid: be careful with your outstanding offers and don't be greedy trying to get all the top kids. What do they lose by being careful and slowing the process down?

They messed up. /thread

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rad lulz wrote:Maybe I don't care that much about this or see that much of a problem with what went down because I just expect firms to fuck people.

The more "prestigious" NYC firms seem to be more genteel about the whole offer thing. They don't no offer people. If they do, they cold offer them. I would bet my last dollar that there are people who do things to get no offered in other markets (whether justifiably or unjustifiably) and those same people would have gotten offers from most top NYC firms had they summered there instead but still done those same things. You can't tell me that all 100 or whatever SAs at Skadden haven't done things that are worse than SAs at countless other firms yet the Skadden SAs get offers and the other ones don't.

I agree that firms are going to look out for their own interests most of the time, but there are firms towards the top that do care about their offer rate enough that they will eat some money or overlook some things that other firms might not. Not sure where Kasowitz fits into this whole thing though my suspicion is that they are not on the level of the firms that will give 100% offers just because.

[snarky comments deleted - why bother]

Do current 3Ls with offers to return have anything to worry about with this?

Anonymous User wrote:Do current 3Ls with offers to return have anything to worry about with this?

Well what the hell are you gonna do now, forgo your shot at biglawls and look for something else

anyone else in this thread accepted before the offers started "exploding"? Anyone accept after?

Im trying to get a grip on the damage, are we talking 25 summers instead of their normal 15-20 or just a couple more?

Yes, 3L’s returning should worry. A firm cutting its class is usually a sign of financial trouble. I just don’t buy that Kasowitz just became so popular over the course of the last year that their offer to acceptance exploded. It will be uphill, obviously, but apply other places and accept Kasowitz if nothing else bites for you. I'm guessing they won't rescind permanent offers, but, what if they do over the course of the year? Its still early enough that you might have a shot at a job elsewhere.

Anonymous User wrote:Yes, 3L’s returning should worry. A firm cutting its class is usually a sign of financial trouble. I just don’t buy that Kasowitz just became so popular over the course of the last year that their offer to acceptance exploded. It will be uphill, obviously, but apply other places and accept Kasowitz if nothing else bites for you. I'm guessing they won't rescind permanent offers, but, what if they do over the course of the year? Its still early enough that you might have a shot at a job elsewhere.

Its very easy to test the theory. Going into the Interview season Kasowitz said on their website that they wanted 15-18 summers. Call up recruiting and find out how many summers they are having this summer. 5-10 your right and its sign of trouble. 15-18 and maybe the really just became more popular. It could also be that the state of the market is so bad this year that more people are grasping at straws with 1 offer so instead of their increased popularity leading to a higher acceptance rates, people applying to kasowitz just all ended up with one offer and had to take Kas.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Yes, 3L’s returning should worry. A firm cutting its class is usually a sign of financial trouble. I just don’t buy that Kasowitz just became so popular over the course of the last year that their offer to acceptance exploded. It will be uphill, obviously, but apply other places and accept Kasowitz if nothing else bites for you. I'm guessing they won't rescind permanent offers, but, what if they do over the course of the year? Its still early enough that you might have a shot at a job elsewhere.

Its very easy to test the theory. Going into the Interview season Kasowitz said on their website that they wanted 15-18 summers. Call up recruiting and find out how many summers they are having this summer. 5-10 your right and its sign of trouble. 15-18 and maybe the really just became more popular. It could also be that the state of the market is so bad this year that more people are grasping at straws with 1 offer so instead of their increased popularity leading to a higher acceptance rates, people applying to kasowitz just all ended up with one offer and had to take Kas.

From the NALP form it looks like Kasowitz may have overhired last year as well, but might have decided to just eat the extra summers. I'm not sure repeating the same mistake represents great decision making. And if they didn't overhire last year then they are cutting the number of summers for other reasons, which also doesn't inspire confidence.

Tiago Splitter wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Yes, 3L’s returning should worry. A firm cutting its class is usually a sign of financial trouble. I just don’t buy that Kasowitz just became so popular over the course of the last year that their offer to acceptance exploded. It will be uphill, obviously, but apply other places and accept Kasowitz if nothing else bites for you. I'm guessing they won't rescind permanent offers, but, what if they do over the course of the year? Its still early enough that you might have a shot at a job elsewhere.

Its very easy to test the theory. Going into the Interview season Kasowitz said on their website that they wanted 15-18 summers. Call up recruiting and find out how many summers they are having this summer. 5-10 your right and its sign of trouble. 15-18 and maybe the really just became more popular. It could also be that the state of the market is so bad this year that more people are grasping at straws with 1 offer so instead of their increased popularity leading to a higher acceptance rates, people applying to kasowitz just all ended up with one offer and had to take Kas.

From the NALP form it looks like Kasowitz may have overhired last year as well, but might have decided to just eat the extra summers. I'm not sure repeating the same mistake represents great decision making. And if they didn't overhire last year then they are cutting the number of summers for other reasons, which also doesn't inspire confidence.

I dont see a problem with cutting the number of summers pre-class especially if they overhired last year. but then again who knows.

Anonymous User wrote:http://abovethelaw.com/2013/09/a-rescinded-offer-is-better-than-a-cold-offer-right

Wow, ATL is roasting Kasowitz this week. I'm loving it.

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I'm not a frequent reader of ATL so I may have missed it but did ATL always reference TLS as frequently as they have of late?

iplulzer wrote:I'm not a frequent reader of ATL so I may have missed it but did ATL always reference TLS as frequently as they have of late?

Lat walks among us.

(no idea)

hoos89 wrote:Question: does NALP actually have any teeth? Do they have the ability to punish firms that violate their guidelines, beyond perhaps removing them from the directory?

Totally toothless.

hoos89 wrote:Question: does NALP actually have any teeth? Do they have the ability to punish firms that violate their guidelines, beyond perhaps removing them from the directory?

As my CSO said when I got an exploding offer to return from my 1L SA while I was going through 2L OCI "There are no NALP police"