Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

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Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:42 pm

So, I completely struck out at OCI. A ton of screeners, and no callbacks.

I do not get it at all. My credentials are not bad. I have very similar credentials compared to some of my classmates who have gotten callbacks left and right.

I've been told I'm a great interviewer from my career counselor, and other mock interview programs I've participated in.

I am just hoping to get some advice on what I should do now. I've heard that mid-size firms will start posting academic year law clerk positions, and summer 2014 positions within the coming weeks. I've also heard that some mid-size firms will hire a clerk for the school year, and assuming they do well, the law clerk is asked to stay over the summer, and be in consideration for a full time position.

Are there any particular things anyone has noticed that has worked well for them in landing a mid-size 2L clerk/SA position?

All advice is welcome.

Thank you. And I apologize if it just sounds like I'm complaining.

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wiz
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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby wiz » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:47 pm

School? Grades?

I think the best course of action right now is to mass mail.

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:45 pm

There is definitely an element of luck in the biglaw recruiting process. Unfortunately, this can translate into bad luck for some. I am top 10% at T14 with law review, federal court internship, and other work experience (including some legal). Like you, I've been told my interviewing is good. Out of the ten firms I got interviews with at OCI through the lottery, I landed no offers, and many didn't even give me callbacks.

The credited answer here is to mass mail. I landed a V5 offer this way, as well as a couple of V100 offers.

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby UnderrateOverachieve » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:53 pm

Maybe have some trusted people that know the game take a peek at your resume. With that kind of result I would be curious if you accidentally have some red flags going on. I, personally, am curious at why your perceived value is so off from how you are being evaluated.

When you say "similar" do you mean like +-5%?

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:56 pm

Not OP, but does anyone know if anyone has ever had success asking a firm to reconsider after a CB ding? I know it's desperate but quite frankly I am desperate

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Not OP, but does anyone know if anyone has ever had success asking a firm to reconsider after a CB ding? I know it's desperate but quite frankly I am desperate

I have heard of it happening, but it's incredibly rare

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:06 am

Just mass mail. Lower t14 - i got all my offers through mass mail.

Certain things on your resume, while impressive, may not translate to legal hiring. For example, the kind of work experience they like is the kind they understand (which does not necessarily mean prestigious). They understand everything from Fortune 500 to teaching. There are always ways to turn any WE into a positive narrative, but it doesn't always fit neatly with what firms want. My two cents.

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:44 am

Mass mail. I initially struck out at OCI (got some CBs later from it), but the only offer I have right now is from mass mailing. Good luck!

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:34 am

Happens to the best of us. Keep your head up. See if your school has a second round of OCI - if so, obviously jump on that.

Also, what I'm doing is sending out resumes to this firms I did not bid on at the first round of OCI. It won't hurt and with your grades you might get a look at a mid sized firm that you initially skipped on.


Mass mail. I have just started this, but conventional wisdom is that it has a low yield rate. Good luck, post in the Tea Leaves thread, you should find support there.


And fuck those firms who dinged you.

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:So, I completely struck out at OCI. A ton of screeners, and no callbacks.

I do not get it at all. My credentials are not bad. I have very similar credentials compared to some of my classmates who have gotten callbacks left and right.

I've been told I'm a great interviewer from my career counselor, and other mock interview programs I've participated in.

I am just hoping to get some advice on what I should do now. I've heard that mid-size firms will start posting academic year law clerk positions, and summer 2014 positions within the coming weeks. I've also heard that some mid-size firms will hire a clerk for the school year, and assuming they do well, the law clerk is asked to stay over the summer, and be in consideration for a full time position.

Are there any particular things anyone has noticed that has worked well for them in landing a mid-size 2L clerk/SA position?

All advice is welcome.

Thank you. And I apologize if it just sounds like I'm complaining.


I'm in a similar position (I've been told my resume and interviewing are both great by a variety of people, have legal and corporate WE, very strong ties, etc.). I've just been mass mailing and networking as much as possible (which is tough with classes and everything else going on, but I want/need a job).

I think there is a decent amount of luck involved - not that the people with offers don't deserve them, just that some without offers are similarly deserving. I know people with offers who also feel that way. It just means we have to keep hustling!

Best of luck!

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:13 am

OP here.

Thank you for your kind words everyone.

I've definitely started to mass mail, and most of the return emails are "Sorry, we are no longer hiring" or "Sorry, we're not hiring at this time."

I have received one email from a very nice recruiter from a mid-size firm saying how their firm is on the later cycle, and won't start looking for 2L SAs until early spring. That's really the only shining spot.

I just feel like I am taking on just so much stress. Like, I am in the middle between two sets of people. One set includes those who have 2L SA offers and are feeling relieved. And on the other side, there a large amount of my class mates who are simply not looking for SA/law clerk positions, because they either (1) don't care, or (2) think that an opportunity will arise regardless of circumstances.

I feel like I'm literally hustling a ton, emailing recruiters, trying to set up lunches with alumni from mid-size firms, and going to different networking events. I just hope this amounts to something.

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:18 am

Just keep mailing. Ignore those "sorry we're done" letters. Firms will often bring you in for a callback after sending those. I got 4 callbacks out of 200 mails.

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby hephaestus » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:Just keep mailing. Ignore those "sorry we're done" letters. Firms will often bring you in for a callback after sending those. I got 4 callbacks out of 200 mails.

And follow up on your mass mails. I found this to be the way to make them most effective. Two weeks or so after you send them, send them another email on your original message chain, and tell them that they are a top choice and you are very much interested in their firm. It makes your mails seem a lot more targeted and less scattershot.

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here.



I just feel like I am taking on just so much stress. Like, I am in the middle between two sets of people. One set includes those who have 2L SA offers and are feeling relieved. And on the other side, there a large amount of my class mates who are simply not looking for SA/law clerk positions, because they either (1) don't care, or (2) think that an opportunity will arise regardless of circumstances.


Bro, I'm right with you on this. Keep fighting and we will find something.

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:06 pm

Mass mailing only works if your grades are decent. I'm slightly above median at T10, close to 400 mass mails and nothing but rejections. Started in July.

ETA: that has been one of the most frustrating things about OCI/hiring in general for me, is these one-size-fits-all approaches and answers. Everything from bidding, to interviewing, to callback approaches, to mass mailing, to networking, differs completely depending on your place in the class and the prestige of your school. There is no single answer for someone who just "struck out".

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:17 pm

Agreed. My grades are median at MVP. They're not gonna get me in the door anywhere through mass mailing, unfortunately. I've been trying but no one is gonna look at my grades and think I'm any different than the hundreds of other kids who are also emailing them

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:23 pm

Guys its too early. I was median at a lower t14 and got all my callbacks through mass mailing. NONE of these came in September. ALL came in October. Firms will screw up their expected yields and call you - I'm including V50 type firms. Just keep mailing and stop making excuses. If you have 3.3 at Duke/UVA/GULC you're not golden by any means but mass mailing can definitely work.

But, from my experience mailing to NYC is a no-go. Traditional wisdom on here says to apply to NY, but that didn't translate to mass mailing for me. Hit up all secondary markets, and other primary markets (Chicago, DC). If you are at one of the t14s I mentioned, you should definitely start hitting up cities like DC, Charlotte, Richmond, Baltimore. Just keep mailing

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Mass mailing only works if your grades are decent.


So the consensus is that mass mailing will not help if you're below median or right at median? Would like to get people to weigh in on this so I can focus my job search in other directions if necessary. (I'm below median at Mich)

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:33 pm

So the consensus is that mass mailing will not help if you're below median or right at median? Would like to get people to weigh in on this so I can focus my job search in other directions if necessary. (I'm below median at Mich)


I think it depends on where you're mass mailing. if you have ties to a secondary market in the midwest, it will most likely be worth it. I'm slightly above median at MVP but my only ties are to major markets. Mass mailing NY/Bay area with my grades just doesn't work.

Also M's median is super low, so if you're below median its probably going to look more like bottom of the class to most firms. I'm not meaning to discourage you, I think its best to focus your job search as necessary. With below median grades at Mich I think your best bet is trying to mass mail secondary markets where the michigan name is strong, and/or use connections to get you in somewhere. I honestly think mass mailing major markets will be a waste of time you could be putting towards other approaches.

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:03 pm

What do you guys mean when you say secondary markets? Do you mean cities not located in the same region as your school?

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby wiz » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What do you guys mean when you say secondary markets? Do you mean cities not located in the same region as your school?


Basically, all markets outside of NY, LA, SF, CHI, and DC.

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:09 pm

Struck out at OCI. Just above median at lower T14 (like "just above" matters). Should I only be MMing secondary markets?

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby wiz » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Struck out at OCI. Just above median at lower T14 (like "just above" matters). Should I only be MMing secondary markets?


Mass mail everywhere. Job > no job.

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:13 pm

My strategy for median at t14

Mass mail in this order: markets with strong ties, markets near school, markets with weak ties, other markets. A lot of times markets near you school will give you a shot for a screener that you can turn into a callback.

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Re: Struck out at OCI, what's the best course of action?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:20 pm

wiz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Struck out at OCI. Just above median at lower T14 (like "just above" matters). Should I only be MMing secondary markets?


Mass mail everywhere. Job > no job.

It's hard for me to mass mail because from what I've read, you're only supposed to apply to firms with practices you can demonstrate an interest in. Isn't the cover letter supposed to tie your experience/interests/etc with the firm's practice areas? What do you do when you have nothing in your transcript or work experience to show that you have the slightest interest in what the firm does?




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