Winston Strawn Chicago

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Anonymous User
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Winston Strawn Chicago

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:29 pm

I am debating accepting a summer offer from Winston but am hesitating due to their recent struggles. I've heard about their low morale and no-offers 2 years ago...but I thought the culture seemed decent during the OCI process. This is my only big law offer, so if I don't accept, I will hit the small and mid sized market this fall/spring. Any thoughts? Is it really so bad?

This is asking a lot on TLS, but please try to refrain from wild hyperbole and speculation. I want opinions but not uninformed ones

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Re: Winston Strawn Chicago

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:34 pm

Take the offer if you have any interest in biglaw. You can always change courses, but this is your only chance for a large firm.

2013applicant
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Re: Winston Strawn Chicago

Postby 2013applicant » Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:43 pm

The general advice seems to be "Don't take Winston if you have other market-paying offers." Here, it looks like it is fine for you to take Winston.

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Re: Winston Strawn Chicago

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:44 pm

FWIW, I don't think they're going to no offer this summer. They made a concerted effort to keep their offer rates low last summer to avoid a repeat (and were successful, I believe) and they seemed to have offered some more this year, but not by a substantial amount. In any event, (anecdotally) a lot of people took the no-offers very seriously. A bigger concern is the overall financial well-being of a firm that was forced into the no-offering situation. That's something no one without inside knowledge of W&S can answer, but it may mean your job as a first- or second-year associate position is not as stable as your peers in other big firms in the city.

Hence the constant TLS refrain: take another offer if you have one. However, since you don't, you should probably take Winston. It's a huge name in Chicago, and the firm still has access to great litigation work. Chicago was brutal this year, and you're lucky to come out with anything. The mid/small firms you want either: do their summer hiring now (to compete for the same candidates as the big firms), or hire you as a full-time associate sometime during your 3L year. The fall/spring job search for a gig in a smaller firm is probably not going to pan anything useful.

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hephaestus
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Re: Winston Strawn Chicago

Postby hephaestus » Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:12 pm

2013applicant wrote:The general advice seems to be "Don't take Winston if you have other market-paying offers." Here, it looks like it is fine for you to take Winston.

Yes, take it. I don't see why you'd turn it down when there isn't an alternative.

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Re: Winston Strawn Chicago

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:51 pm

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but is there any reason to choose Winston if you do have comparable offers with say firms like Mayer Brown?

I understand that the offer rate is definitely something to be weary of, but they gave 100% offers this past summer and probably will next summer as well to avoid any more backlash. I guess you could argue that the less-than-100% offer rate could be an indicator of a firm's poor overall financial standing as well - although it does not seem like many of the Chicago firms (barring Kirkland and Sidley) are doing that great either.

I guess I only ask because I really connected well with everyone at Winston during my CB and the one thing really holding me back from choosing them over other Chicago firms is their offer rate.

Are there other things we should consider when choosing between firms when the tangibles are mostly the same (160k, large firm, similar work, etc.)? I know fit is supposedly a big deal but it's so amorphous and tough to determine from a callback alone.

Any input on those actually at Winston or other large Chicago firms would be greatly appreciated!

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Re: Winston Strawn Chicago

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:34 pm

OP here...thanks everyone for your well thought out replies and civility.

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Re: Winston Strawn Chicago

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:Don't mean to hijack this thread, but is there any reason to choose Winston if you do have comparable offers with say firms like Mayer Brown?

I understand that the offer rate is definitely something to be weary of, but they gave 100% offers this past summer and probably will next summer as well to avoid any more backlash. I guess you could argue that the less-than-100% offer rate could be an indicator of a firm's poor overall financial standing as well - although it does not seem like many of the Chicago firms (barring Kirkland and Sidley) are doing that great either.

I guess I only ask because I really connected well with everyone at Winston during my CB and the one thing really holding me back from choosing them over other Chicago firms is their offer rate.

Are there other things we should consider when choosing between firms when the tangibles are mostly the same (160k, large firm, similar work, etc.)? I know fit is supposedly a big deal but it's so amorphous and tough to determine from a callback alone.

Any input on those actually at Winston or other large Chicago firms would be greatly appreciated!


I am at/will be at one of K&E/Sidley as a 1st year, so my input is limited.

If I were in your situation, I would probably pick Mayer Brown based on the rumors I've heard floating around about Winston. Even if they aren't true, it's not good to have the rumor that you're consolidating and renting out floors of your office because the space is empty now. And their 100% offer rate isn't a great indication of the firm health because they may be cutting elsewhere or, more villainously, bringing in associates they can't support with work in the middle and long term.

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greenchair
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Re: Winston Strawn Chicago

Postby greenchair » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:Even if they aren't true, it's not good to have the rumor that you're consolidating and renting out floors of your office because the space is empty now.


It's not a rumor. It's fact.

http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/a ... fice-space

That site is run by the Crain's Chicago Business.

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Re: Winston Strawn Chicago

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:09 pm

Definitely take the offer if it's your only offer. Perhaps all the recent purging will make room for you to be able to get an offer and to get enough work when you return as a full-time associate.

I wouldn't recommend picking Winston over Mayer based on who you clicked with during interviews. It's a bit of a crap shoot who you end up meeting during a callback, and you will likely never work with most of those people at either firm, anyways.

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Re: Winston Strawn Chicago

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:28 pm

Great info., thanks all! Anyone wanna white-knight Winston at all?




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