Character and Fitness worries...

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dresden doll
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby dresden doll » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:33 am

Bronx Bum wrote: I bet that 75% of the hold ups are idiots who don't provide all of the documentation.


As a member of that 75 percent, I concur.

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:50 am

Bronx Bum wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Bronx Bum wrote:If anyone is tired of getting advice from 2L's who have no idea, and want advice from someone who passed C&F with an assault arrest (bar fight) WHILE in law school and a previous open container violation, PM me or straight ask me in this thread.

NY AND NJ fwiw.


To both anons (in law school and the 2 dwi guy):

Thank you for being available for ?s.

I am the idiot OP who f*cked up in law school w/ behavioral (nonacademic) misconduct. What course of action would you recommend?

I have been prescribed new meds, undergo regular psych counseling, and participate in 15-20 hours of pro bono work a week (volunteered full time over winter break and will do the same over spring breaks). What are some non-obvious ways to show rehabilitation?

Interested in PA/NJ.


The only thing I can see being a problem is the counseling and meds but if that's all done by the time you apply, you *should* be ok. I got into a bar fight, and won pretty handedly. I was charged with assault, had a lawyer come down right away and got it dropped to disorderly conduct. At court, it was further dropped to some bs town ticket (equivalent to disorderly conduct except that this was municipal). Immediately AFTER there was a disposition on the case, I went to the dean of academic whatever and provided him with every document known to man pertaining to my case. I even brought medical records showing that I was injured too so it didn't look like I blindsided the dude.

I really didn't take blame for it. I believe I was justified in what I did and I expressed that. I did, however, say that I embarrassed myself and, as a law student, never should have been in that bar. What I said was somewhat inconsistent with the police report because, quite frankly, the 21 year old seasonal cop straight up lied.

The law school allowed me to amend my app. I provided them with everything. Then when I filled out my character and fitness apps, I took about 6 hours to make sure everything was together in neat exhibits.

End result: New Jersey, admitted without even being questioned. New York, the guy said that the "only thing that even raises a slight flag is the fact that your account is different than the police report but your explanation is reasonable" and then complimented me on the time I took to put together all of the documents. I'm now admitted in both states without delay. In fact, I was admitted in the first available class for NY and I was admitted a week after bar results came out for NJ (had to send in signed oath card). I bet that 75% of the hold ups are idiots who don't provide all of the documentation.

If you provided EVERYTHING to them, every report from the counseling, all the medications, etc. then you did your part. It's when you only provide "7 out of the 9" counseling reports or "forget" to provide the entire police report that you have yourself to blame.


why will counseling and meds be seen as bad? i thought they would see it as a form of self-care/rehabilitation. the bad part is what i actually did and the fact that it occurred during law school.

dean is willing to certify me post may 2014, which is when the university probation status expires.

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Bronx Bum
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Bronx Bum » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Bronx Bum wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Bronx Bum wrote:If anyone is tired of getting advice from 2L's who have no idea, and want advice from someone who passed C&F with an assault arrest (bar fight) WHILE in law school and a previous open container violation, PM me or straight ask me in this thread.

NY AND NJ fwiw.


To both anons (in law school and the 2 dwi guy):

Thank you for being available for ?s.

I am the idiot OP who f*cked up in law school w/ behavioral (nonacademic) misconduct. What course of action would you recommend?

I have been prescribed new meds, undergo regular psych counseling, and participate in 15-20 hours of pro bono work a week (volunteered full time over winter break and will do the same over spring breaks). What are some non-obvious ways to show rehabilitation?

Interested in PA/NJ.


The only thing I can see being a problem is the counseling and meds but if that's all done by the time you apply, you *should* be ok. I got into a bar fight, and won pretty handedly. I was charged with assault, had a lawyer come down right away and got it dropped to disorderly conduct. At court, it was further dropped to some bs town ticket (equivalent to disorderly conduct except that this was municipal). Immediately AFTER there was a disposition on the case, I went to the dean of academic whatever and provided him with every document known to man pertaining to my case. I even brought medical records showing that I was injured too so it didn't look like I blindsided the dude.

I really didn't take blame for it. I believe I was justified in what I did and I expressed that. I did, however, say that I embarrassed myself and, as a law student, never should have been in that bar. What I said was somewhat inconsistent with the police report because, quite frankly, the 21 year old seasonal cop straight up lied.

The law school allowed me to amend my app. I provided them with everything. Then when I filled out my character and fitness apps, I took about 6 hours to make sure everything was together in neat exhibits.

End result: New Jersey, admitted without even being questioned. New York, the guy said that the "only thing that even raises a slight flag is the fact that your account is different than the police report but your explanation is reasonable" and then complimented me on the time I took to put together all of the documents. I'm now admitted in both states without delay. In fact, I was admitted in the first available class for NY and I was admitted a week after bar results came out for NJ (had to send in signed oath card). I bet that 75% of the hold ups are idiots who don't provide all of the documentation.

If you provided EVERYTHING to them, every report from the counseling, all the medications, etc. then you did your part. It's when you only provide "7 out of the 9" counseling reports or "forget" to provide the entire police report that you have yourself to blame.


why will counseling and meds be seen as bad? i thought they would see it as a form of self-care/rehabilitation. the bad part is what i actually did and the fact that it occurred during law school.

dean is willing to certify me post may 2014, which is when the university probation status expires.


Right, if it's all done, and you provided all of the documents, I think you should be ok. If they caught you in a period where you still have some sessions left, you might have a problem. But clearly you said that you will be done. Keep a neat file and be ready to submit everything.

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:46 pm

so you're saying i should quit the counseling when may 2014 rolls around?

NYstate
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby NYstate » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:so you're saying i should quit the counseling when may 2014 rolls around?

No. I would get advice from a lawyer. These situations are different. You are claiming that a bad reaction to medication was the reason your behavior was out of control at school and you are on probation. He was in a bar fight. Not the same thing. You need counseling to show you are dealing with your psychological problems.

I don't know how many times you need to be advised to hire an expert to help you.

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:03 pm

I wanna know what kind of behavior results in being put on probation in law school.

The only thing I saw when I was in LS were false (malicious) allegations of cheating by disgruntled gunners who couldn't make the cut.

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I wanna know what kind of behavior results in being put on probation in law school.

The only thing I saw when I was in LS were false (malicious) allegations of cheating by disgruntled gunners who couldn't make the cut.


it is behavioral, non-academic.

my behavior basically amounted to harassment of a professor and several administrators/being disruptive.

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Bronx Bum
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Bronx Bum » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:so you're saying i should quit the counseling when may 2014 rolls around?


He's right. Get a lawyer if you need one. But I would not quit. You should complete it before though.

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Two DWIs. One when 19; one after 1L year of law school. Already working at a firm, waiting on bar passage and C&F. SHITTING.

They were both brought down to DWAI (driving with ability impaired) which is a traffic infraction, not a crime in the relevant state. However, I know how bad it looks to have one during law school. Took (by my own will) alcohol classes after that incident and I have a beaming resume otherwise (govt service, etc.). I am so scared.


what state? hopefully not a hardass one like FL. the fact that you took alcohol classes by your own will after the incident was a smart move.


new york.



So do you guys think I am royally screwed? I am freaking out. I already work at a mid-sized firm. I don't even know what would happen if I wasnt admitted. :(

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:20 pm

update from OP: Dean certified me for summer 2014




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