Character and Fitness worries...

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Anonymous User
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Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:24 pm

What are the C&F ramifications of having been on University Probation? (this is behavioral, not academic). According the the code of conduct on the UG website,

University Probation is the highest level of probation status, which remains in place for a specified period of time. University Probation indicates that similar or more severe violations of the Code of Student Conduct while on this status will result in the mandatory imposition of a suspension or dismissal from the University, the length being a minimum of the balance of the semester or one full semester. University Probation is a serious matter. While on University Probation, certain privileges may not be available to the student based upon the discretion of the hearing officer.


As long as I disclose, I should be all right? :|

anonymous2012
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby anonymous2012 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:30 pm

The probation status is less relevant than what you did.

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:31 pm

accused of sending harassing emails/using abusive language

anonymous2012
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby anonymous2012 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:accused of sending harassing emails/using abusive language


I'd drop the "accused" mindset/parlance. Nothing raises more red flags than someone who refuses to take responsibility or minimizes what they did. Any idiot can tell that if it was an abusive email, a message was in fact sent and there was a neutral factfinder who found by a preponderance of the evidence you sent the abusive emails (which were more than likely objectively abusive).

C & F isn't a time to retry your case. Your "guilt" will be assumed.

Own it. Describe how you've learned and what steps you've taken to address it, and kept your nose clean.

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:44 pm

anonymous2012 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:accused of sending harassing emails/using abusive language


I'd drop the "accused" mindset/parlance. Nothing raises more red flags than someone who refuses to take responsibility or minimizes what they did. Any idiot can tell that if it was an abusive email, a message was in fact sent and there was a neutral factfinder who found by a preponderance of the evidence you sent the abusive emails (which were more than likely objectively abusive).

C & F isn't a time to retry your case. Your "guilt" will be assumed.

Own it. Describe how you've learned and what steps you've taken to address it, and kept your nose clean.


thanks. you're sure that this won't be an outright bar, so long as I own up to it?

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
anonymous2012 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:accused of sending harassing emails/using abusive language


I'd drop the "accused" mindset/parlance. Nothing raises more red flags than someone who refuses to take responsibility or minimizes what they did. Any idiot can tell that if it was an abusive email, a message was in fact sent and there was a neutral factfinder who found by a preponderance of the evidence you sent the abusive emails (which were more than likely objectively abusive).

C & F isn't a time to retry your case. Your "guilt" will be assumed.

Own it. Describe how you've learned and what steps you've taken to address it, and kept your nose clean.


thanks. you're sure that this won't be an outright bar, so long as I own up to it?


Can't see how it would be, unless you threatened to kill someone or something.

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
anonymous2012 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:accused of sending harassing emails/using abusive language


I'd drop the "accused" mindset/parlance. Nothing raises more red flags than someone who refuses to take responsibility or minimizes what they did. Any idiot can tell that if it was an abusive email, a message was in fact sent and there was a neutral factfinder who found by a preponderance of the evidence you sent the abusive emails (which were more than likely objectively abusive).

C & F isn't a time to retry your case. Your "guilt" will be assumed.

Own it. Describe how you've learned and what steps you've taken to address it, and kept your nose clean.


thanks. you're sure that this won't be an outright bar, so long as I own up to it?


Can't see how it would be, unless you threatened to kill someone or something.


haha, no, it wasn't THAT bad. will this shit be enough to delay my admission to the bar by several months-more than a year?

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:05 pm

bump. any other perspectives?

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splitsplat
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby splitsplat » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:15 pm

there are specific attorneys that deal with this issue. id consider spending the small (usually) consultation fee to get an expert perspective.

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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:18 pm

have ppl passed c&f with worse conduct? worried as hellllll...

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:48 pm

Yes. People have passed the C&F test despite being felons - in some states. You're going to have to convince them that you've reformed, of course.

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:57 pm

How to do this? Not repeat the conduct and show remorse/accept responsibility?

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BVest
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby BVest » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:06 pm

splitsplat wrote:there are specific attorneys that deal with this issue. id consider spending the small (usually) consultation fee to get an expert perspective.


This.

As far as an outright bar, definitely not. If it were, it's unlikely you would have gotten past C&F during the law school application phase. (Law schools don't want students who can't get licensed). I very closely know a case of a licensed attorney who had been suspended for harassment in a public campus forum.

The bar will want evidence that you disclosed the situation to your law school, as will any future bar you apply to that doesn't have reciprocity, so be sure to hold onto a copy of your law school app.

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wbrother
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby wbrother » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:34 pm

For what it's worth the I think the NAACP, or someone similar, profiled ex-murderers turned lawyers as part of a campaign to change laws that ban felons from voting. So yes, people have done things worse than bullying via email and got past C&F. Disclose everything.

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:33 pm

UPDATE:
So, I got a lovely email from my Dean this afternoon

"Based on your current status [University Probation] and the course of conduct that led to it [Trap] Law School will be unable to certify you for the character provision necessary for [student practice] certification to participate in any clinical course that requires certification. In addition, [Trap] Law School is unable to certify you for the character and fitness requirements for admission to any state bar"

HALP!

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:UPDATE:
So, I got a lovely email from my Dean this afternoon

"Based on your current status [University Probation] and the course of conduct that led to it [Trap] Law School will be unable to certify you for the character provision necessary for [student practice] certification to participate in any clinical course that requires certification. In addition, [Trap] Law School is unable to certify you for the character and fitness requirements for admission to any state bar"

HALP!


follow up question: how would a law firm handle this (if, indeed, someone like OP failed CF or their admissions was delayed)? the obvious answer seems to be auto-revoke offer, but i've also heard that some firms keep "associates" who fail the bar exam on as "clerks" and allow them to take the next exam.

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:39 pm

someone PLEASE help me.

had a meltdown today.

:cry:

lukertin
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby lukertin » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:someone PLEASE help me.

had a meltdown today.

:cry:

Not all states require the schools to certify students for character provisions. Does yours?

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:54 pm

really? i though a dean's cert was required. let me check; thanks for the head's up.

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BVest
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby BVest » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:09 pm

First of all, is this the OP? Is your probation current and as a result of actions taken while at LS? That was not clear to me previously. I apologize if I misled as a result.

Secondly:
Lawyer up.

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:24 pm

BVest wrote:First of all, is this the OP? Is your probation current and as a result of actions taken while at LS? That was not clear to me previously. I apologize if I misled as a result.

Secondly:
Lawyer up.


yeah, i'm OP. probation is still current, and was result of actions taken in LS (i know i f*cked up, please don't berate me any further; i'm in a vulnerable state right now) i have not violated probation in any fashion since the clock on probation started running.

Srsly about the second? are you not sure than i can't work something out with the administration before resorting to litigation? like a plan to redeem myself somehow? i mean, the letter says, "based on your CURRENT status"

wishful thinking, perhaps! just tryna find the silver lining in this veritable hell of a situation.

lukertin
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby lukertin » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:really? i though a dean's cert was required. let me check; thanks for the head's up.

Nope. For example, my state just required a certified letter stating I was a student there and graduated.

Adb808
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Adb808 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:34 pm

I'm kind of confused about the timing of all of this... So your UG school put you on probation and now your law school won't certify to your moral character?

The advice about getting a lawyer to help is good. Sometimes your ethics law professors will help with that too.

I recently passed my state's moral character certification with no delays or problems and I've been arrested twice (disclosed both). In fact, my moral character app was processed and cleared even faster than my boss who was already an out of state atty and he had no arrests. I guess he looked too clean to be legit...

Also, my professional responsibility teacher said he only personally knew one guy who didn't pass the moral character and that guy had been convicted of manslaughter (but was still trying).

You'll get through this.

Anonymous User
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:42 pm

thanks for the reassurance.

no no, i did stupid shit in LS resulting in probation, and the dean sent me the above email today saying that he won't certify me for C&F, resulting in me transforming into a blubbering mess this afternoon.

Adb808
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Re: Character and Fitness worries...

Postby Adb808 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:51 pm

Ooooh. That makes more sense.

I would talk to a lawyer who really knows her sh_t and preferably has connections with your school. In this situation, a lawyer is not for "litigation". You would lose that battle against a law school for sure. The lawyer is to help you put together mitigating factors and assist in discussions with the dean. If you pick someone the dean respects, that could go a long way.




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