clifford chance (ny) v. shearman (ny)

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clifford chance (ny) v. shearman (ny)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:59 am

i've heard that being in the ny office of a magic circle firm is a dangerous move re: position within the firm and partner track. also, i've heard that CC churns through lawyers to the point where clients never see the same attorneys.

can anyone weigh in on this choice? cc ups the prestige, but will most likely mean purely cap mots and other really us-centered work. this could push it over shearman since the latter seems to be on the decline. i just don't know.

i want to do international corporate work, most likely m&a, cap mkts, pe, etc. i really want foreign office experience (i have a shot at shearman and am guaranteed at cc.)

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Re: clifford chance (ny) v. shearman (ny)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:52 pm

shearman NYC is in steep decline, but i have not heard any bad things about CC (at least financially). being in the NYC office of a MC firm is, i think, actually a good thing, particularly if you are interested in ever working abroad (CC has way more prestige than S&S in London/Hong Kong/etc).

S&S has been plummeting in the vault rankings, even over the past few years. but if you got a bad vibe at your CC callback, then trust your gut.

honestly, if you want foreign office experience, why are you even considering a firm that won't guarantee it? seems silly to me.

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Re: clifford chance (ny) v. shearman (ny)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:31 pm

If you're 100% committed to go practice banking/finance or capital markets overseas as soon as possible, this might be a good reason to choose Clifford Chance. But Clifford NYC isn't quite up to par with the other Magic Circle NYC offices. Freshfields/Linklaters are more international and A&O does better work in the NYC office.

Shearman is a safer bet. You still have a good shot of moving overseas with Shearman but you have far better domestic exit options and no worse foreign exit options (Magic Circle offices) than you would at CC.

YOLOcontendere
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Re: clifford chance (ny) v. shearman (ny)

Postby YOLOcontendere » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:56 pm

Shearman summer here. Re: the decline, you can read the Amlaw article published this year and come to your own conclusions: http://www.americanlawyer.com/PubArticl ... 0816184907

Re: summering at a foreign office, if you have a background that fits or a good reason to do so, you have a good chance at summering overseas - but of course, not guaranteed like at CC.

Not sure where the rumors of CC being a churn/sweatshop come from - have also heard the same, but I have a friend who summered there and said it was fine.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

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Re: clifford chance (ny) v. shearman (ny)

Postby TokyoSoul » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:19 pm

How is this even a question? For some reason, this forum doesn't give Shearman nearly enough prestige. I know someone who turned down multiple V10s for S&S.

I don't mean to put down CC, which is a good firm, but take a look at the client list. Shearman wins.

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Re: clifford chance (ny) v. shearman (ny)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:48 pm

I am usually a proponent of the Magic Circle firms (especially if you're interested in international experience -- Freshfields/Linklaters are probably comparable to the V5 internationally) but I loathed the CC NYC office -- it seemed horribly dull & dismal & the partners seemed like jerks (at a callback when they're trying to recruit you!)

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Re: clifford chance (ny) v. shearman (ny)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:32 am

i had a really good experience at CC, tbh. i actually loved the partners, which is one of my more important metrics. the associates were fine, nothing special though.

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Re: clifford chance (ny) v. shearman (ny)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:04 pm

my cc callback was so strange. associates seemed really sad even at lunch.
the people as shearman seemed really friendly though. everyone is always raving about cleary's culture, but shearman actually seemed better (enough so that i've accepted their offer)

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Re: clifford chance (ny) v. shearman (ny)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:34 pm

I was a summer at CC and actually had the opposite experience, in re: associate culture. I thought it was great. The firm has been extremely busy (so much so that the incoming class was asked, on a voluntary basis, if they were available to start a week after the bar exam), so I would question whether or not the "sadness" may have just been fatigue. With that being said, you're not going to click with everyone at every firm. That's just life.

I think this is really important to frame this decision: OP, this really isn't a life or death decision between these two firms, IMO. This isn't NYC international V30 versus midlaw in Portland. This is an NYC international V30 versus an NYC international V30. These firms, while they certainly have some distinctions, are two very, very similar firms. I'd say go with your gut (as cliche and unhelpful as that is).

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Re: clifford chance (ny) v. shearman (ny)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:01 pm

Shearman is better than Clifford Chance. Once you're an actual associate like me, you realize Vault is worthless. If I was advising 2Ls, I'd tell them to look at what deals each firm actually works on. S&S simply does way more high profile stuff and has a lot of respect among those in the know.

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Re: clifford chance (ny) v. shearman (ny)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Shearman is better than Clifford Chance. Once you're an actual associate like me, you realize Vault is worthless. If I was advising 2Ls, I'd tell them to look at what deals each firm actually works on. S&S simply does way more high profile stuff and has a lot of respect among those in the know.


Shearman's apparently on the rise again.




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