How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

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Hutz_and_Goodman
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How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:35 am

I had a callback with a firm that I absolutely loved. Everything seemed to click during the cb, I loved the office, the people I met with, the practice group. One of the interviewers told me during the interview that I did a fantastic job and that would reflected in his review. I couldn't imagine a better set of interviews, and I came away thinking if offered I would probably accept and that would end the job search. The timeline given by the hiring partner was "1 to 2 weeks" for a decision. I left this firm (V50, major market) and have been obsessively thinking about it ever since. Every time my phone would ring I'd immediately check it to see the number. Every day that passed I'd be pretty bummed when it got to be around 6pm because I hadn't heard. After a week I followed up with the screener interview by email (he is an alum of my school, and was out of office during my cb) to tell him that I loved the firm and had a great experience. I didn't hear back from him.

Now as I write this its been slightly longer than two weeks. I've gone from really excited about this possibility to not knowing what to think. Any thoughts on this? I recognize no one can give a definite answer, but is it realistic to think that they haven't made a decision and extended an offer despite the timeline? Is it more likely that they've made offers and I'm either a backup candidate or rejected? Anyone who has been through something similar want to share?

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:52 am

depends on the firm. i had firms that didn't get back for me for a month, so i ended up accepting another offer. i had told these firms about my offers too, but didn't seem to expedite anything.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:54 am

Employers often say things like "one to two weeks," and then things change and they follow a completely different timeline. It might mean you've been rejected, it might mean the firm had other things come up that changed their timeline. I don't think you can read anything specific into it.

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:depends on the firm. i had firms that didn't get back for me for a month, so i ended up accepting another offer. i had told these firms about my offers too, but didn't seem to expedite anything.


Right. The thing about this firm is that even though it is a big office (200+ attorneys) they are very fit-based in terms of who they select, and multiple people mentioned during the cb that they are careful with extending an offer. Their summer class is not going to be large. So I can't really believe they haven't met. My dream scenario is that they have met and decided on people, but are waiting for word on how many offers they can make (this is not the main office of firm). The second best scenario I can think of is that I'm a wait list candidate and if someone else rejects I will get offered. The worst situation obviously would be that I'm dinged, in which case I can't imagine how the cb could go so well with that result but I imagine others have had this happen.

edit: 1. any thoughts on relationship between cb (ex. an attorney specifically saying I killed the interview) and offer?
2. how does wait list typically work? Or is it generally either offer or ding?
Last edited by Hutz_and_Goodman on Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:59 am

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:Right. The thing about this firm is that even though it is a big office (200+ attorneys) they are very fit-based in terms of who they select, and multiple people mentioned during the cb that they are careful with extending an offer. Their summer class is not going to be large. So I can't really believe they haven't met.

Respectfully, what is the causal linkage between those two statements? How careful they are about extending an offer doesn't seem to me to have anything to do with when they meet to decide who will get offers. There are lots of factors that have nothing to do with hiring that can affect a firm's timeline for making offers.

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:00 pm

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:I had a callback with a firm that I absolutely loved. Everything seemed to click during the cb, I loved the office, the people I met with, the practice group. One of the interviewers told me during the interview that I did a fantastic job and that would reflected in his review. I couldn't imagine a better set of interviews, and I came away thinking if offered I would probably accept and that would end the job search. The timeline given by the hiring partner was "1 to 2 weeks" for a decision. I left this firm (V50, major market) and have been obsessively thinking about it ever since. Every time my phone would ring I'd immediately check it to see the number. Every day that passed I'd be pretty bummed when it got to be around 6pm because I hadn't heard. After a week I followed up with the screener interview by email (he is an alum of my school, and was out of office during my cb) to tell him that I loved the firm and had a great experience. I didn't hear back from him.

Now as I write this its been slightly longer than two weeks. I've gone from really excited about this possibility to not knowing what to think. Any thoughts on this? I recognize no one can give a definite answer, but is it realistic to think that they haven't made a decision and extended an offer despite the timeline? Is it more likely that they've made offers and I'm either a backup candidate or rejected? Anyone who has been through something similar want to share?


I feel you. I'm in the same boat as your right now with one particular firm. Best of luck. I'm sure it is hard getting a bunch of attorneys together for a hiring meeting. So hopefully the good news is coming.

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:02 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:Right. The thing about this firm is that even though it is a big office (200+ attorneys) they are very fit-based in terms of who they select, and multiple people mentioned during the cb that they are careful with extending an offer. Their summer class is not going to be large. So I can't really believe they haven't met.

Respectfully, what is the causal linkage between those two statements? How careful they are about extending an offer doesn't seem to me to have anything to do with when they meet to decide who will get offers. There are lots of factors that have nothing to do with hiring that can affect a firm's timeline for making offers.


If I were making offer decisions and the main issue was fit (at cb stage I think everyone has the grades) then I think it would be more YES/NO decision making, as in am I feeling this person as a part of the office or not. Again, I am a 2L and have no real knowledge of how these decisions are made.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:16 pm

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:Right. The thing about this firm is that even though it is a big office (200+ attorneys) they are very fit-based in terms of who they select, and multiple people mentioned during the cb that they are careful with extending an offer. Their summer class is not going to be large. So I can't really believe they haven't met.

Respectfully, what is the causal linkage between those two statements? How careful they are about extending an offer doesn't seem to me to have anything to do with when they meet to decide who will get offers. There are lots of factors that have nothing to do with hiring that can affect a firm's timeline for making offers.


If I were making offer decisions and the main issue was fit (at cb stage I think everyone has the grades) then I think it would be more YES/NO decision making, as in am I feeling this person as a part of the office or not. Again, I am a 2L and have no real knowledge of how these decisions are made.

Sure, but they still need to meet to make the decisions, because different people can disagree about a specific candidate's fit, and work out the details about making the offers. I don't think there's any correlation between the factors they're considering when deciding about offers, and how long it takes them to make an offer. I'm just saying all kinds of work factors could have delayed such a meeting, even if people agree on who should be hired.

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bk1
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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby bk1 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:28 pm

1. Stop obsessing over it. You can't change it at this point so move on and keep hunting for a job. The only time this might matter is if you have an offer from another firm that is expiring. If that's true then contact them and let them know. If it's not then put this firm out of your mind.

2. You can't know that this:
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:So I can't really believe they haven't met.

is true. Maybe one of the hiring partners had something come up on a case and couldn't make time so they pushed the meeting back a week. Maybe they haven't met because last week was Labor Day so because of the truncated week they didn't have time. Honestly you cannot know anything for sure.

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IAFG
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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby IAFG » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:30 pm

Do you have another offer?

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:43 pm

IAFG wrote:Do you have another offer?


I have an offer from my 1L SA firm for half the summer. They encourage splitting I think in part because they aren't sure they will make a permanent offer (this is true for everyone). I prefer the firm mentioned in the OP. So there's not really anything I can say to the firm described above. The offer I have isn't near expiring. I told the hiring partner during the cb that I had interviews with other firms in the same market but that I really liked there firm. I have a recommender who knows the hiring partner email him after the cb to convey that I really liked the firm. All of this makes me think that no news is probably bad news.

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:02 pm

Waiting sucks. I had something similar happen; the recruiters & partner told me it would be definitely 2 weeks. The two-week mark came and went with no news. I finally sent the recruiters an email (figuring that it was OK to follow up given the timetable they'd told me) and they got right back to me with an offer.

I realize this is totally anecdata, but I don't see anything wrong with following up with the recruiter(s) to express your interest.

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby IAFG » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:Do you have another offer?


I have an offer from my 1L SA firm for half the summer. They encourage splitting I think in part because they aren't sure they will make a permanent offer (this is true for everyone). I prefer the firm mentioned in the OP. So there's not really anything I can say to the firm described above. The offer I have isn't near expiring. I told the hiring partner during the cb that I had interviews with other firms in the same market but that I really liked there firm. I have a recommender who knows the hiring partner email him after the cb to convey that I really liked the firm. All of this makes me think that no news is probably bad news.

Dude, stop obsessing over this firm that probably dinged you and scramble to line up something else. Seriously. It's unhealthy and you might be hugely fucking yourself.

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:14 pm

IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:Do you have another offer?


I have an offer from my 1L SA firm for half the summer. They encourage splitting I think in part because they aren't sure they will make a permanent offer (this is true for everyone). I prefer the firm mentioned in the OP. So there's not really anything I can say to the firm described above. The offer I have isn't near expiring. I told the hiring partner during the cb that I had interviews with other firms in the same market but that I really liked there firm. I have a recommender who knows the hiring partner email him after the cb to convey that I really liked the firm. All of this makes me think that no news is probably bad news.

Dude, stop obsessing over this firm that probably dinged you and scramble to line up something else. Seriously. It's unhealthy and you might be hugely fucking yourself.


I agree with the unhealthy part but I've done nothing differently. I'm mass mailing like crazy, and I had two callbacks last week and another on Monday. I have two professors reaching out to two different firms for me and am doing sone networking phonecalls next week. I'm asking just for advice and thoughts on the process. Counter to what you've said a lot of people seem to be saying anecdotally that my chances with this firm may not be dead.

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby IAFG » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Counter to what you've said a lot of people seem to be saying anecdotally that my chances with this firm may not be dead.

I didn't say your chances are dead though, did I.

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:41 pm

IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Counter to what you've said a lot of people seem to be saying anecdotally that my chances with this firm may not be dead.

I didn't say your chances are dead though, did I.


That's correct, you didn't. I think the critique that this is a huge waste of emotional energy is completely accurate, and I don't know what to say. I take deadlines very seriously so when a deadline comes and goes like this does it make sense to just assume a no offer and move on? One of my callbacks last week the firm said they would be meeting the next day, and I haven't heard from them.

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby bk1 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:15 pm

Dude, things come up. Hiring isn't necessarily their top priority. Any deadline they gave you is a soft one at best and in reality it was likely just an estimate.

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Waiting sucks. I had something similar happen; the recruiters & partner told me it would be definitely 2 weeks. The two-week mark came and went with no news. I finally sent the recruiters an email (figuring that it was OK to follow up given the timetable they'd told me) and they got right back to me with an offer.

I realize this is totally anecdata, but I don't see anything wrong with following up with the recruiter(s) to express your interest.



What did you say in your email? I'm trying to figure out the most tactical way to phrase everything.

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby TooOld4This » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Waiting sucks. I had something similar happen; the recruiters & partner told me it would be definitely 2 weeks. The two-week mark came and went with no news. I finally sent the recruiters an email (figuring that it was OK to follow up given the timetable they'd told me) and they got right back to me with an offer.

I realize this is totally anecdata, but I don't see anything wrong with following up with the recruiter(s) to express your interest.



What did you say in your email? I'm trying to figure out the most tactical way to phrase everything.


Since you have an open offer, you can use that to check status. Be careful in phrasing though, so that you don't make it seem as if you need an answer ASAP (if you don't). If you are in a maybe pile and they think they need to give you a yes or no, you might move yourself to no.

I'd ask for a timeline update, rather than pressing for an answer.

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Waiting sucks. I had something similar happen; the recruiters & partner told me it would be definitely 2 weeks. The two-week mark came and went with no news. I finally sent the recruiters an email (figuring that it was OK to follow up given the timetable they'd told me) and they got right back to me with an offer.

I realize this is totally anecdata, but I don't see anything wrong with following up with the recruiter(s) to express your interest.



What did you say in your email? I'm trying to figure out the most tactical way to phrase everything.


I wouldn't mind seeing an example of this either. This week will only mark 2 weeks with a firm I'm very interested in, and although it's not the length of time that is worrisome, I've heard anecdotally that, because of the small size of the office, they want to see some sort of continued interest before extending an offer.

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Re: How seriously to take offer timelines ("one to two weeks")

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:57 am

descartesb4thehorse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Waiting sucks. I had something similar happen; the recruiters & partner told me it would be definitely 2 weeks. The two-week mark came and went with no news. I finally sent the recruiters an email (figuring that it was OK to follow up given the timetable they'd told me) and they got right back to me with an offer.

I realize this is totally anecdata, but I don't see anything wrong with following up with the recruiter(s) to express your interest.



What did you say in your email? I'm trying to figure out the most tactical way to phrase everything.


I wouldn't mind seeing an example of this either. This week will only mark 2 weeks with a firm I'm very interested in, and although it's not the length of time that is worrisome, I've heard anecdotally that, because of the small size of the office, they want to see some sort of continued interest before extending an offer.


+1

I'm in the same boat. This particular office is small, they told me I should hear something in about 2 weeks, and it's now approaching the three week mark. I don't have an offer about to expire, though, so I'm not sure what to say.




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