Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

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Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:02 pm

I've found myself in a little bit of a strange spot - I came into law school wanting biglaw. I got an offer from a terrific firm I thought I had no chance with.

I'm now finding myself talking myself out of it / worried about it. Something about the reality setting in? Something about how many biglaw horror stories I've read for years now? I worked a serious job before school - I don't want to kid myself about the hours, but I also have experience with actual work and know I can hack it for at least a period of time.

This is the only path forward for me (debt, etc.). But I'm not wanting to say yes to this. What's wrong with me?

Any 3L's / graduates experience similar? Or other 2L's in the same boat?

This isn't even a debate between offers - it's saying yes at all.

Pokemon
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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby Pokemon » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:11 pm

You should reject the offer. If this is difficult, things will only get more difficult once you start working...

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glitter178
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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby glitter178 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:12 pm

:? No. No. No. No.

Because the alternative is being un- or underemployed with a mountain of debt, and I've got enough friends/ classmates who are about to sail that boat.

Be grateful and accept the damn offer. right.now.

lolwat
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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby lolwat » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:14 pm

what. the. fuck.

this makes me want to punch babies

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hichvichwoh
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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby hichvichwoh » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:14 pm

lolwat wrote:what. the. fuck.

this makes me want to punch babies


are you sure you don't feel pity for this poor soul with a big law offer?

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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:17 pm

hichvichwoh wrote:
lolwat wrote:what. the. fuck.

this makes me want to punch babies


are you sure you don't feel pity for this poor soul with a big law offer?


I read it the other way - he has similar angst over the dozens biglaw offers he is drowning in and the only way he has found to relieve the anxiety is through punching babies.

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bk1
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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby bk1 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:20 pm

It isn't slavery, it's just the summer. You don't even have a full time offer. You can always turn down the full time offer. You can always quit once you start.

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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:22 pm

This is retarded--accept. If the summer is too horrible you can search 3L year.

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thesealocust
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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby thesealocust » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:28 pm

Think it might suck? Might be hard? You might not cut it? Try some perspective.

At the end of a very hard week in biglaw, if you go to an ATM and attempt to withdraw the (after tax) salary you just earned for your week of labor, you will not be able to. That amount is in excess of basically all ATM withdrawal limits.

If you worked 40 hours per week at minimum wage, all 52 weeks per year, and paid no tax, you would earn $15,080. It will take you well under two months to earn that much money after tax at a biglaw job in a high-tax city/state.

If you save roughly 1/3 of your after-tax biglaw salary per year for roughly 4 years, and invest in a diversified mix of stocks and bonds, your expected return PER YEAR will be around an entire year's worth of minimum wage labor. Your money will work a minimum wage job for you. All day, every day, forever.

And if you don't like it? From the moment you get sworn in and/or appear in your law firm's website, you will receive recruiting phone calls from headhunters looking to place you into other law firms or legal jobs.

And if you hate it? It's a free country, you can grab the belongings off of your desk, send a rage-quit email to the firm, and carry on doing whatever you want, wherever you want.

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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:21 pm

You're idealizing both the positive and negative aspects of the job. It's not going to be a dream job but it won't kill you, either. Is there something else you want to be doing or is it just cold feet? If the latter, just accept. If the former, probably still just accept, but start thinking about what it is you want to do with your career and researching how to set yourself up for it. But this is not a life or death decision. It's closing some doors, like every decision does, but them's the breaks.

Also, FWIW I think it's pretty common to feel some of the things you're feeling about going into biglaw, and I don't understand the derision about it.

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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:37 pm

OP, I totally understand. I got the V5 NYC dream offer that I thought I wanted. Fruck out. Ended up accepting SA spot at a smaller firm in my dream market where I know even if I hate the job I'll be living somewhere I love. There's more to life than work, bro. If you're freaking out, there might be a reason for it...

...then again, I probably should have just gone with the V5.

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OneMoreLawHopeful
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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:42 pm

In the hopes of creating actually helpful discussion...

When did you start feeling this way? I know that my "number 1 choice" firm from before OCI started was most definitely NOT my "number 1 choice" once the process was over. There are firms (or more specifically, offices of firms) that look great on paper only to seem terrible once you do a callback and hear what things are like.

Sources like Chambers Associate and the Vault blurbs somehow manage to never give you any of the negative aspects of any firm (probably because they depend upon firm participation in producing their products). But then you go on a callback, go out to lunch, ask the associates what their favorite movie of the summer was...and find out they haven't been to the movies since law school. Or one of them slips up and says something like "It's frustrating working for partners at this office, but once you get cross-staffed with partners from another office it's a lot better."

If you're having trouble accepting it might not be about the "biglaw lifestyle" so much as what you actually saw at that office. It's easy to get wrapped up in Vault and AmLaw rankings and start thinking "I just HAVE to work for firm X," only to realize that, no, you don't want to work for firm X at all, and in fact, firm y is probably the better choice even though you bid it 12th at the start of OCI.

So, ask yourself, is this a general fear of biglaw, or is this a specific fear of what you saw at a callback?

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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP, I totally understand. I got the V5 NYC dream offer that I thought I wanted. Fruck out. Ended up accepting SA spot at a smaller firm in my dream market where I know even if I hate the job I'll be living somewhere I love. There's more to life than work, bro. If you're freaking out, there might be a reason for it...

...then again, I probably should have just gone with the V5.


There may be more to life than work, but there's also a corporate wellness service called "more to life" that can help jury-rig a life onto your symbiotic relationship with your office at some big firms!!11!~~~

(anon because my firm has such a service with such a name but I have no idea how common that is)

lolwat
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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby lolwat » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:45 pm

Also, FWIW I think it's pretty common to feel some of the things you're feeling about going into biglaw, and I don't understand the derision about it.


Because the OP specifically said he wasn't choosing between offers. If he had a biglaw offer and some other offer (which, in the typical situation, would require less hours, have a better quality of life, but pay less) and he was trying to choose between them, then these are legitimate concerns about accepting the biglaw offer. But this, what's he going to do, turn down the offer to search for another job (importantly, not "turn down this offer to ACCEPT another job")? What sense does that make when there are so many unemployed law students/graduates? Maybe he should just go read the Vale of Tears thread and then realize that accepting is 100% the right choice.

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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:17 pm

lolwat wrote:
Also, FWIW I think it's pretty common to feel some of the things you're feeling about going into biglaw, and I don't understand the derision about it.


Because the OP specifically said he wasn't choosing between offers. If he had a biglaw offer and some other offer (which, in the typical situation, would require less hours, have a better quality of life, but pay less) and he was trying to choose between them, then these are legitimate concerns about accepting the biglaw offer. But this, what's he going to do, turn down the offer to search for another job (importantly, not "turn down this offer to ACCEPT another job")? What sense does that make when there are so many unemployed law students/graduates? Maybe he should just go read the Vale of Tears thread and then realize that accepting is 100% the right choice.

There are legal jobs other than biglaw. There are many people who turn down biglaw jobs, or who could get a biglaw job but don't even try, to pursue those other jobs. I know this is hard for TLS to square with its hard-on for analyzing 2% differences in NLJ placement among law schools, but it's true. Is it riskier? Yeah, it's not the most risk averse move to turn down a sure thing for a hypothetical future opportunity. But for some people the "sure thing" is sufficiently unappealing. If I offered you the choice between making $160,000 to eat shit for 80 hours a week or a 50% shot at making $50,000 to do something you kind of like, I think you'd take your chances.

lolwat
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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby lolwat » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:31 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:There are legal jobs other than biglaw. There are many people who turn down biglaw jobs, or who could get a biglaw job but don't even try, to pursue those other jobs. I know this is hard for TLS to square with its hard-on for analyzing 2% differences in NLJ placement among law schools, but it's true.


Of course there are. But we're talking about OP, not a hypothetical someone that, say, went to law school knowing they wanted to do PI or work as an ADA or something and, as a result, doesn't pursue biglaw. Instead, we know that OP doesn't know what the hell he wants or doesn't want to do, but has a biglaw offer. We also know that OP said he thought he had no chance with the firm he got an offer from, which implies that his credentials aren't so great that he's guaranteed to have opportunities everywhere else.

If anything, the right move is to hold off on accepting this offer as long as he can while pursuing other opportunities; if/once the deadline approaches, accept the offer and then see if he wants to keep pursuing other opportunities and reneg on this offer if he gets something else he would rather have. In other words, only if he gets something else does he have any reasonable choice of turning down this offer. Turning this down without any other guaranteed employment would NOT be the right choice.

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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:54 pm

I could understand if you had other offers. But otherwise... no.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby Danger Zone » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:11 pm

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS THREAD IM SO FUCKING MAD

Gonna go mass mail and cry into a pillow while OP jerks off.

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laxbrah420
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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby laxbrah420 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:12 pm

Danger Zone wrote:WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS THREAD IM SO FUCKING MAD

Gonna go mass mail and cry into a pillow while OP jerks off.

How does this affect you?

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP, I totally understand. I got the V5 NYC dream offer that I thought I wanted. Fruck out. Ended up accepting SA spot at a smaller firm in my dream market where I know even if I hate the job I'll be living somewhere I love. There's more to life than work, bro. If you're freaking out, there might be a reason for it...

...then again, I probably should have just gone with the V5.


Well this I can understand. I had interviews at three if the V5 (NYC) and the atmosphere was so unpleasant to me at each place that if I were offered I would have serious pause. But none of these was a "dream" firm except in that I was flattered to be interviewed.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby Danger Zone » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:14 pm

It's called jealousy, lax. Are you even a law student? You should know.

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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby Pokemon » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:15 pm

I want to respond in a more serious note than my first comment. This firm will not be the last job of your life. This firm will not be the job you will have five years from now. There is a really good chance that it will only last two years.

Worse case scenario. You hate it. Two years of your life feel horrible. At the end of the day however, at the end of those two years, you will have options that 98% of your fellow citizens do not have. That is a good thing; in my opinion, worth a two year sacrifice.

Best case scenario. You love it. You end up becoming the unicorn that ends up being a V5 partner. Good for you if you love it.

Most likely it will be somewhere in between. You will like elements of your current job, and you will hate others. Take the offer, work there, and if you hate it, get out of it in two years. It might feel like a long time, but two years is nothing. Even law school lasts three years...

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laxbrah420
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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby laxbrah420 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:16 pm

Danger Zone wrote:It's called jealousy, lax. Are you even a law student? You should know.

:lol: my bad you were joking

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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby fanlinxun » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:43 pm

I think the knee jerk reaction to OP's post is to be grateful and just take the offer and it is the best advice you will hear. To be fair, however, in the past year since accepting the offer to my current firm (starting in a couple of weeks) I have had several moments when I asked myself what I am getting myself into. The biglaw lifestyle is not great and may be one of the few areas in life where the bite is as bad as the bark. Still, even if you are having doubts, take the offer. This will be your last chance to accept the offer of your dreams. There are a lot of ways to exit biglaw, but not too many ways to get in.

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Re: Difficulty accepting dream offer? Experience similar?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:15 pm

lolwat wrote:
Also, FWIW I think it's pretty common to feel some of the things you're feeling about going into biglaw, and I don't understand the derision about it.


Because the OP specifically said he wasn't choosing between offers. If he had a biglaw offer and some other offer (which, in the typical situation, would require less hours, have a better quality of life, but pay less) and he was trying to choose between them, then these are legitimate concerns about accepting the biglaw offer. But this, what's he going to do, turn down the offer to search for another job (importantly, not "turn down this offer to ACCEPT another job")? What sense does that make when there are so many unemployed law students/graduates? Maybe he should just go read the Vale of Tears thread and then realize that accepting is 100% the right choice.


the world is not going to stop spinning because there are people in the vale, and i say that as someone with the utmost sympathy for people in the vale etc. this habit of going into every thread to shit on people's legitimate concerns because someone might have a worse problem is annoying. by that metric, nobody should be complaining in america about anything since some kid has it worse in damascus. if you don't like op's question and concerns, just avoid the thread.

people lose it in biglaw. partners have walked away from it all. it's not an easy decision for everyone to make and for some, there's more to life than slaving away for money (however relatively large a sum that may be). his concerns are not unusual, and it's baffling why it bothers you this much.




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