New associate banter

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seespotrun
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Re: New associate banter

Postby seespotrun » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:12 pm

My favorite ice cream flavor is Prison Grape. I also enjoy Cherry Sandusky.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Big Shrimpin » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:56 pm

seespotrun wrote:My favorite ice cream flavor is Prison Grape. I also enjoy Cherry Sandusky.


With mashed strawberries and chocolate chips?

Anonymous User
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:34 am

NYC specific question, sorry -- how far is too far for BigLaw, in terms of commute? I'm familiar with NYC geography and travel times, I'm just asking current associates for their opinion. You are probably often leaving after you're entitled to car service, and if there was ever an emergency when you needed to be in suddenly, I would imagine you could also take a cab. So, for instance, is being a few stops in along the L line in Brooklyn (~40 minutes by train) too far if your office is in Midtown East? I would not enjoy living in the parts of Manhattan that are close to BigLaw offices, so I am willing to sacrifice in terms of commute time to save money and live somewhere I prefer. But if this seems absurd to you in your experience please let me know.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Lincoln
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Lincoln » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:NYC specific question, sorry -- how far is too far for BigLaw, in terms of commute? I'm familiar with NYC geography and travel times, I'm just asking current associates for their opinion. You are probably often leaving after you're entitled to car service, and if there was ever an emergency when you needed to be in suddenly, I would imagine you could also take a cab. So, for instance, is being a few stops in along the L line in Brooklyn (~40 minutes by train) too far if your office is in Midtown East? I would not enjoy living in the parts of Manhattan that are close to BigLaw offices, so I am willing to sacrifice in terms of commute time to save money and live somewhere I prefer. But if this seems absurd to you in your experience please let me know.


I think it would be totally fine. I'm on the 1st Ave L stop, so it'd only be 5 mins further for you (and you'd actually get on the train every time!). I would, however, look into setting up a good home office so that you don't have to trek in every time you have doc review on weekends or such.

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thesealocust
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Re: New associate banter

Postby thesealocust » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:55 am

Should definitely be doable. Even if you take the car home frequently, it's not going to be every night (I think the stat is that a third or so of the lawyers at your average giant firm use the car service any given night).

For somebody new to their city and/or the lifestyle of biglaw I'd hesitate to recommend starting so far away, but as long as it's an informed choice based on what you know about NYC it shouldn't be awful.

Anonymous User
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:11 pm

Guys I'm really struggling.

I went to HYS and worked really hard. I didn't particularly like it, but I did what I thought I had to do. I have about 120k in debt.

Because I worked hard, I got good grades (I guess this gives it away that I didn't go to Yale), jumped through all the hoops that I needed to jump through, and work for a tip-top firm.

I live in a shitty apartment with roommates that annoy me. I'm doing this in an effort to pay off all my loans in 2 years and have the freedom to walk away from this if I need to.

I work all the time. Seriously, I haven't taken a day off in about a month. I bill in high 50s/low 60s every week. There's always a day where I have to stay really late to get something done on time, and that ruins my productivity (and billing) for the rest of the week. I gather that my work schedule / billing numbers are not atypical at my firm or in biglaw in general.

I have no personal life. My fitness has gone to hell. I've lost about 15 lbs since starting work in early september and now look like a stick figure. (as a male, this is a bad thing.)

Despite working a lot, nothing I do is good enough or fast enough. This is also not unique to my situation, especially at my firm, but it still doesn't feel great.

It's tough to think that I've worked really hard for really long, and the payoff is pretty terrible. Please tell me it gets better. Sorry for whining.

Anonymous User
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:19 pm

Are you in your stub year (as in started during the past couple months)? This seems pretty out of whack from what I've heard from others that just started.

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thesealocust
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Re: New associate banter

Postby thesealocust » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:21 pm

It really does get better. The entry learning curve is very variable (I know people who had no work for weeks) but it can be intensely brutal if you wind up in a busy group and make the mistake of doing good work and/or appearing pain tolerant enough to handle high volumes of work. Everything is foreign and you'll have an inability to manage your schedule/work flow/multiple matters without gaining more experience and getting your bearings.

It never gets "easy" or "short" but the anxiety should drop down several notches as you see emergencies come up, get handled, and wind up not being a big deal. You'll be able to complete work faster AND with more accuracy in just a few months, you'll have a better feeling for how long things will take you, you'll have more credibility to be able to push back on projects or deadlines or complete things on your own timeline, etc.

Don't get me wrong - "better" doesn't mean "it gets compatible with anything like a normal life" but you'll get more used to the tempo and more comfortable with the environment, even if you still don't want to stick it out the whole time.

Hang in there anon bro <3

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: New associate banter

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:59 pm

thesealocust wrote:It really does get better. The entry learning curve is very variable (I know people who had no work for weeks) but it can be intensely brutal if you wind up in a busy group and make the mistake of doing good work and/or appearing pain tolerant enough to handle high volumes of work. Everything is foreign and you'll have an inability to manage your schedule/work flow/multiple matters without gaining more experience and getting your bearings.

It never gets "easy" or "short" but the anxiety should drop down several notches as you see emergencies come up, get handled, and wind up not being a big deal. You'll be able to complete work faster AND with more accuracy in just a few months, you'll have a better feeling for how long things will take you, you'll have more credibility to be able to push back on projects or deadlines or complete things on your own timeline, etc.

Don't get me wrong - "better" doesn't mean "it gets compatible with anything like a normal life" but you'll get more used to the tempo and more comfortable with the environment, even if you still don't want to stick it out the whole time.

Hang in there anon bro <3

I want to make this post my desktop background at work.

Anonymous User
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:53 pm

thesealocust wrote:It really does get better. The entry learning curve is very variable (I know people who had no work for weeks) but it can be intensely brutal if you wind up in a busy group and make the mistake of doing good work and/or appearing pain tolerant enough to handle high volumes of work. Everything is foreign and you'll have an inability to manage your schedule/work flow/multiple matters without gaining more experience and getting your bearings.

It never gets "easy" or "short" but the anxiety should drop down several notches as you see emergencies come up, get handled, and wind up not being a big deal. You'll be able to complete work faster AND with more accuracy in just a few months, you'll have a better feeling for how long things will take you, you'll have more credibility to be able to push back on projects or deadlines or complete things on your own timeline, etc.

Don't get me wrong - "better" doesn't mean "it gets compatible with anything like a normal life" but you'll get more used to the tempo and more comfortable with the environment, even if you still don't want to stick it out the whole time.

Hang in there anon bro <3


Thank you. I'll keep all of this in mind and keep grinding.

Yes, I'm a stub year. Started a week after labor day.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Big Shrimpin » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:21 pm

Cosigned, TSL. Nice poast.

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quakeroats
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Re: New associate banter

Postby quakeroats » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:26 pm

thesealocust wrote:It really does get better. The entry learning curve is very variable (I know people who had no work for weeks) but it can be intensely brutal if you wind up in a busy group and make the mistake of doing good work and/or appearing pain tolerant enough to handle high volumes of work. Everything is foreign and you'll have an inability to manage your schedule/work flow/multiple matters without gaining more experience and getting your bearings.

It never gets "easy" or "short" but the anxiety should drop down several notches as you see emergencies come up, get handled, and wind up not being a big deal. You'll be able to complete work faster AND with more accuracy in just a few months, you'll have a better feeling for how long things will take you, you'll have more credibility to be able to push back on projects or deadlines or complete things on your own timeline, etc.

Don't get me wrong - "better" doesn't mean "it gets compatible with anything like a normal life" but you'll get more used to the tempo and more comfortable with the environment, even if you still don't want to stick it out the whole time.

Hang in there anon bro <3


Practically, you're spot on, but our dear anon's problem is deeper, almost existential. His problem--our problem--is he's forgotten his place in the world. Let's begin at the beginning. Everyone in this thread currently lives in the US or in one of a handful of exceedingly wealthy western countries. We've all graduated from college and have graduate degrees. Most of our degrees are from the most prestigious law schools in a rich country that turn out only a few thousand graduates a year. Most of us are making over triple the median household wage in our 20s or early 30s. And for the most part we have neither kids nor spouses to spend our money on. To the extent we have debts, the payments are indexed to our income, so if we decided to work for less, we'll pay back less and possibly nothing.

Well yes, our dear anon will surely say, that's all well and good, but it doesn't take my feelings into account. I may have 3 times what a normal family makes, but I'm asked to work over 1.5 times (perhaps even twice!) as much as the average worker. My fitness routine is really suffering and I'm not thrilled with the people I share an apartment with in a desirable location. At this rate I may not have an extra 120,000 dollars available to pay off that debt with extremely generous terms in two years time. I'm sure we all feel for our dear anon and his ghastly situation. It reminds us of the many troubles we've seen (remember when we did 20 interviews with some of the most prestigious employers in the world back to back, amirite??). But perhaps, just this once, we could stop staring directly into our navels and consider our larger position in the world. Dearest anon, few people living or dead have had it as good as you, as we, do. Stop whining and enjoy.

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bk1
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Re: New associate banter

Postby bk1 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:41 pm

Oh for fuck's sake.

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quakeroats
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Re: New associate banter

Postby quakeroats » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:43 pm

bk1 wrote:Oh for fuck's sake.


+1

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5ky
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Re: New associate banter

Postby 5ky » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:44 pm

bk1 wrote:Oh for fuck's sake.


this almost makes me want to read the post, but i'll just continue to have quaker on my foe list and my QOL will continue to improve

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El Pollito
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Re: New associate banter

Postby El Pollito » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:44 pm

:|

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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:49 pm

quakeroats wrote:
thesealocust wrote:It really does get better. The entry learning curve is very variable (I know people who had no work for weeks) but it can be intensely brutal if you wind up in a busy group and make the mistake of doing good work and/or appearing pain tolerant enough to handle high volumes of work. Everything is foreign and you'll have an inability to manage your schedule/work flow/multiple matters without gaining more experience and getting your bearings.

It never gets "easy" or "short" but the anxiety should drop down several notches as you see emergencies come up, get handled, and wind up not being a big deal. You'll be able to complete work faster AND with more accuracy in just a few months, you'll have a better feeling for how long things will take you, you'll have more credibility to be able to push back on projects or deadlines or complete things on your own timeline, etc.

Don't get me wrong - "better" doesn't mean "it gets compatible with anything like a normal life" but you'll get more used to the tempo and more comfortable with the environment, even if you still don't want to stick it out the whole time.

Hang in there anon bro <3


Practically, you're spot on, but our dear anon's problem is deeper, almost existential. His problem--our problem--is he's forgotten his place in the world. Let's begin at the beginning. Everyone in this thread currently lives in the US or in one of a handful of exceedingly wealthy western countries. We've all graduated from college and have graduate degrees. Most of our degrees are from the most prestigious law schools in a rich country that turn out only a few thousand graduates a year. Most of us are making over triple the median household wage in our 20s or early 30s. And for the most part we have neither kids nor spouses to spend our money on. To the extent we have debts, the payments are indexed to our income, so if we decided to work for less, we'll pay back less and possibly nothing.

Well yes, our dear anon will surely say, that's all well and good, but it doesn't take my feelings into account. I may have 3 times what a normal family makes, but I'm asked to work over 1.5 times (perhaps even twice!) as much as the average worker. My fitness routine is really suffering and I'm not thrilled with the people I share an apartment with in a desirable location. At this rate I may not have an extra 120,000 dollars available to pay off that debt with extremely generous terms in two years time. I'm sure we all feel for our dear anon and his ghastly situation. It reminds us of the many troubles we've seen (remember when we did 20 interviews with some of the most prestigious employers in the world back to back, amirite??). But perhaps, just this once, we could stop staring directly into our navels and consider our larger position in the world. Dearest anon, few people living or dead have had it as good as you, as we, do. Stop whining and enjoy.



I get the sentiment, but biglaw is objectively unpleasant for the vast majority of people. It seems silly to argue otherwise, the starving children in Africa notwithstanding.

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quakeroats
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Re: New associate banter

Postby quakeroats » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I get the sentiment, but biglaw is objectively unpleasant for the vast majority of people. It seems silly to argue otherwise, the starving children in Africa notwithstanding.


1. Set aside the starving, the top 1% income cutoff worldwide is 34k. We start at just under 5 times that.

2. I don't know about you, but when I think of objectively unpleasant working conditions, biglaw doesn't spring to mind.

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thesealocust
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Re: New associate banter

Postby thesealocust » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:29 pm

Newsflash: there is no need to compare one set of challenging circumstances to another. Perspective is good, but mental states shouldn't be expected to yield to statistics.

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reasonable_man
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Re: New associate banter

Postby reasonable_man » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:36 pm

Wait. What happened?

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quakeroats
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Re: New associate banter

Postby quakeroats » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:42 pm

thesealocust wrote:Newsflash: there is no need to compare one set of challenging circumstances to another. Perspective is good, but mental states shouldn't be expected to yield to statistics.


Of course they should. Remembering that our failure would count as success for almost anyone else does wonders for one's mental health. Otherwise, you'll end up looking like this:


"I'm not having fun at all," Mr Berlusconi declared yesterday. He complained that in the two years since he came to power, he had barely set foot in his favourite holiday homes around the world and had spent only a single day on his private yacht, which he bought from fellow tycoon Rupert Murdoch.
"My life has changed," said Mr Berlusconi, a swashbuckling free marketeer identified as the world's third most powerful billionaire by Forbes magazine last year, with an estimated fortune of £3.9 billion. "The quality has become terrible. What a brutal job."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... fices.html

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: New associate banter

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:46 pm

quakeroats wrote:Remembering that our failure would count as success for almost anyone else does wonders for one's mental health.

Actually, that sounds like a pretty good recipe for guilt if, in fact, you just don't like working biglaw. Just because it's objectively a pretty good deal doesn't mean everyone's going to enjoy it, and spending that much time on something you don't like is miserable, even if there are people who have it a lot worse in the world.

09042014
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Re: New associate banter

Postby 09042014 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:51 pm

An average dood in Thailand isn't payin 2500 dollars for a shitty apartment. Plus hookers are cheap. You might make 16 times what he does, but don't assume your life is better.

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quakeroats
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Re: New associate banter

Postby quakeroats » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:54 pm

Desert Fox wrote:An average dood in Thailand isn't payin 2500 dollars for a shitty apartment. Plus hookers are cheap. You might make 16 times what he does, but don't assume your life is better.


Per capita GNI in Thailand is $5200. You make more than 30 times that.

09042014
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Re: New associate banter

Postby 09042014 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:58 pm

quakeroats wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:An average dood in Thailand isn't payin 2500 dollars for a shitty apartment. Plus hookers are cheap. You might make 16 times what he does, but don't assume your life is better.


Per capita GNI in Thailand is $5200. You make more than 30 times that.


And if you work NYC biglaw you live in similar third world conditions.




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