New associate banter

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Anonymous User
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:48 pm

3rd year at a v10: this is why I don't work on the same floor as most that people I work with. I leave my office at 6pm and work from home when people need me. I am responsive and get the work done, and nobody notices or cares about the difference. It is very rare that I'm actually in the office past 8pm.

Edit: and I do corporate.

Anonymous User
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:10 pm

Were you able to do this or any iteration of this as a first or second year?

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IAFG
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Re: New associate banter

Postby IAFG » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:03 pm

Maybe it's just because I have a kid but I don't get the big deal about working at home. I would rather just stay til I am done.

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thesealocust
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Re: New associate banter

Postby thesealocust » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm

IAFG wrote:Maybe it's just because I have a kid but I don't get the big deal about working at home. I would rather just stay til I am done.


I feel like that sometimes too. Home as a relatively safe-from-work place has its benefits.

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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Were you able to do this or any iteration of this as a first or second year?


Yes, but I was a little more sensitive and tried to communicate that just because I am home, doesn't mean I'm done for the night. Some associates still didn't get it ( and would not give me work and complained behind my back). I just don't work for them anymore.

stayway
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Re: New associate banter

Postby stayway » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:52 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
On the flip side, the lifestyle that comes with the well paying in-house position can't be underestimated, especially if you're someone who values his(her) personal well-being.


It's not just that. Starting in an in-house position basically guarantees that you'll never advance significantly in-house. When in big law, it is always very important that if an associate laterals in-house, he lateral at the right level of seniority. The more junior you are, the less room there is for advancement. The more senior you are, the more room there is. This also depends on how big the company is.

Four years at the V20 means he can lateral in-house at a more senior position, with a better salary, higher ceiling and better lifestyle.


This is what I'm afraid of currently. I had no choice but to take the in-house gig right out of LS. I'm afraid I'll never be able to lateral anywhere significant. But at the same time I'm in a very unconventional situation where I am the only in-house counsel at the company and my company is transitioning from a mid-sized to a large corporation (currently hiring a lot of people, departmentalizing, drafting/creating corporate policies/handbooks, etc.). So I basically am banking on my company getting huge and me at the end of the day leading the legal department eventually.

On the flipside, my fear is the company hiring someone better than me down the road as my superior. Hopefully they stay loyal to me.

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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:14 pm

IAFG wrote:Maybe it's just because I have a kid but I don't get the big deal about working at home. I would rather just stay til I am done.


Really? I would rather get home around 8 and work while I sit near my wife a million times over rather than sit in my office until 11 and get home to find her asleep. I don't mind doing the work at home, I just like being in the same room as my wife, even if I have to focus on work while I am there. Is this not a common sentiment?

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beach_terror
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Re: New associate banter

Postby beach_terror » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:Maybe it's just because I have a kid but I don't get the big deal about working at home. I would rather just stay til I am done.


Really? I would rather get home around 8 and work while I sit near my wife a million times over rather than sit in my office until 11 and get home to find her asleep. I don't mind doing the work at home, I just like being in the same room as my wife, even if I have to focus on work while I am there. Is this not a common sentiment?

If you don't hate your wife, then I'd imagine so.

Personally, getting out of the office and having dinner at home then rebooting around 8 to wrap some stuff up is a tremendous help. I'm a lot more productive after clearing my head and changing locations.

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IAFG
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Re: New associate banter

Postby IAFG » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:Maybe it's just because I have a kid but I don't get the big deal about working at home. I would rather just stay til I am done.


Really? I would rather get home around 8 and work while I sit near my wife a million times over rather than sit in my office until 11 and get home to find her asleep. I don't mind doing the work at home, I just like being in the same room as my wife, even if I have to focus on work while I am there. Is this not a common sentiment?

Stopping to come home, change clothes, chat a little, then work with more distractions just extends the amount of time it will take to wrap it up before bed.

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Re: New associate banter

Postby rad lulz » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:21 pm

beach_terror wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:Maybe it's just because I have a kid but I don't get the big deal about working at home. I would rather just stay til I am done.


Really? I would rather get home around 8 and work while I sit near my wife a million times over rather than sit in my office until 11 and get home to find her asleep. I don't mind doing the work at home, I just like being in the same room as my wife, even if I have to focus on work while I am there. Is this not a common sentiment?

If you don't hate your wife, then I'd imagine so.

Personally, getting out of the office and having dinner at home then rebooting around 8 to wrap some stuff up is a tremendous help. I'm a lot more productive after clearing my head and changing locations.

Yeah I'm with you there bro

desertlaw
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Re: New associate banter

Postby desertlaw » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:10 pm

So to summarize:

Some people like to work from home for the last few hours. Others would rather finish it all at work so that home is a work-free place.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Big Shrimpin » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:40 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP from above here. I totally get that as a first year you can't let the work fall to a 4th year bc you want to go home earlier, but how about leaving earlyish (8ish) and finishing the work at home, or coming in super early the next morning, or both? I'm just trying to devise a way to get everything done but also get to go home and spend time with my wife, who is literally just sitting at home alone. And no, I'm not talking about telling a partner or associate no when there's an assignment that must clearly be done by you, I'm talking about not volunteering for more work, trying to stay "under the radar" and look as busy as possible when new assignments are being passed out, that sort of thing. As I said, the goal is to do a good job but not be perceived as a workhorse or a gunner.


Sometimes all of that will be possible. Sometimes you'll have no work after 6. Other times your whole team will be working at 9 pm, frequently passing documents back and forth or stopping in to check on things - nobody will block the exit if you try to leave, and you'll be happier if you don't just hang around for the sake of hanging around, but it's not always so simple.

Unfortunately, the line is rarely "I should work a little harder on this to make it sparkle" (read: workhorse/gunner) and more frequently "It would take me 6 hours to do this in a way that doesn't make me look like a drooling, lazy retard, and they need it by the morning, and it's 8:00 p.m., whydid I choose this profession".



This. You won't know until you're actually in it. When PARTNER gives you handwritten edits on a brief with like a million missing cites at 7PM, and CLIENT wants a redacted draft of it for review first thing the next day, expect to be there until it's done. However long that takes.

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Re: New associate banter

Postby Big Shrimpin » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:43 pm

ITT we discuss the soul-sucking nature of biglaw. The more I think about it, maybe it's just MFH. Seems to me that so many smaller cities are more hospitable workplaces. I have buddies at big firm offices around the country and they regularly scoff at my MFH hours.

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Re: New associate banter

Postby rad lulz » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:46 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:49 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:ITT we discuss the soul-sucking nature of biglaw. The more I think about it, maybe it's just MFH. Seems to me that so many smaller cities are more hospitable workplaces. I have buddies at big firm offices around the country and they regularly scoff at my MFH hours.


I think that's true.

If you're at a busy firm in NYC, expect to bill 2600-2700+ for a serious shot at partner. Anything else communicates less (in my experience).

In other markets, that tends to drop down to 2300 or so. Not lifestyle by any stretch of the imagination, but an improvement.

And then in true secondary markets, around 2000-2100.

After my first year doing 2700+, 2100... even 2300... is a walk in the park.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Big Shrimpin » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:ITT we discuss the soul-sucking nature of biglaw. The more I think about it, maybe it's just MFH. Seems to me that so many smaller cities are more hospitable workplaces. I have buddies at big firm offices around the country and they regularly scoff at my MFH hours.


I think that's true.

If you're at a busy firm in NYC, expect to bill 2600-2700+ for a serious shot at partner. Anything else communicates less (in my experience).

In other markets, that tends to drop down to 2300 or so. Not lifestyle by any stretch of the imagination, but an improvement.

And then in true secondary markets, around 2000-2100.

After my first year doing 2700+, 2100... even 2300... is a walk in the park.



Yeah I should hit at least 2300 this year. And I've been less busy than many, perhaps a lower-end biller.

Womp.

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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:43 am

Big Shrimpin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:ITT we discuss the soul-sucking nature of biglaw. The more I think about it, maybe it's just MFH. Seems to me that so many smaller cities are more hospitable workplaces. I have buddies at big firm offices around the country and they regularly scoff at my MFH hours.


I think that's true.

If you're at a busy firm in NYC, expect to bill 2600-2700+ for a serious shot at partner. Anything else communicates less (in my experience).

In other markets, that tends to drop down to 2300 or so. Not lifestyle by any stretch of the imagination, but an improvement.

And then in true secondary markets, around 2000-2100.

After my first year doing 2700+, 2100... even 2300... is a walk in the park.


Yeah I should hit at least 2300 this year. And I've been less busy than many, perhaps a lower-end biller.

Womp.


Yeah, that's what frustrates me about NYC. It's not that I have to bill 2700+, it's that even at 2700+, I'm somehow still not good enough. In any other market, those hours would make me a superstar. Fuck... 2300 hours would make you a superstar at many other firms (even firms with a super nice PPP).

Anyways, my point is that NYC is a tough place to be. Even associates at the tippity top of their class are denied partnership because partners are scared of them taking business. I know of situations at some firms where they deliberately promoted less talented/productive associates to partnership in order to consolidate power.

This shit man. It's poison.

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thesealocust
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Re: New associate banter

Postby thesealocust » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:45 am

You never want to be a superstar because of hours. It'll make your life hell and it'll peg you as a grinder, which is a very disposable role in the large firm world where churning ambitious associates is the name of the game. Nothing wrong with hard work, but it's got very little to do with the decision to make somebody partner, which is all about ability to develop and maintain business.

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Re: New associate banter

Postby run26.2 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:53 am

Big Shrimpin wrote:ITT we discuss the soul-sucking nature of biglaw. The more I think about it, maybe it's just MFH. Seems to me that so many smaller cities are more hospitable workplaces. I have buddies at big firm offices around the country and they regularly scoff at my MFH hours.

What is MFH?

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mr. wednesday
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Re: New associate banter

Postby mr. wednesday » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:54 am

dixiecupdrinking wrote:On the other hand, I feel pretty confident that I'm not about to get furloughed at my biglaw job, so that's something.

I sort of wish I was subject to furlough. I mean, it's going to suck for a lot of people if it happens but I'd rather get paid a little less this year and stay home next week.

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5ky
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Re: New associate banter

Postby 5ky » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:09 am

run26.2 wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:ITT we discuss the soul-sucking nature of biglaw. The more I think about it, maybe it's just MFH. Seems to me that so many smaller cities are more hospitable workplaces. I have buddies at big firm offices around the country and they regularly scoff at my MFH hours.

What is MFH?


man-fucking-hattan, breh

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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:13 am

thesealocust wrote:You never want to be a superstar because of hours. It'll make your life hell and it'll peg you as a grinder, which is a very disposable role in the large firm world where churning ambitious associates is the name of the game. Nothing wrong with hard work, but it's got very little to do with the decision to make somebody partner, which is all about ability to develop and maintain business.


Same anon as above. Agreed.

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Re: New associate banter

Postby desertlaw » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:19 am

thesealocust wrote:You never want to be a superstar because of hours. It'll make your life hell and it'll peg you as a grinder, which is a very disposable role in the large firm world where churning ambitious associates is the name of the game. Nothing wrong with hard work, but it's got very little to do with the decision to make somebody partner, which is all about ability to develop and maintain business.


But as a 1st-2nd year, what can I offer other than hours + good attitude? It's not like I have a lot of knowledge or a book of business at that point, right?

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IAFG
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Re: New associate banter

Postby IAFG » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:20 am

HAPPY MONDAY ERRYONE

stayway
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Re: New associate banter

Postby stayway » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:35 am

Big Shrimpin wrote:ITT we discuss the soul-sucking nature of biglaw. The more I think about it, maybe it's just MFH. Seems to me that so many smaller cities are more hospitable workplaces. I have buddies at big firm offices around the country and they regularly scoff at my MFH hours.


Maybe it's just me but I'm envious of everyone in big law at MFH. I understand the hours are crazy and you are at the bottom of the shit pile but it just seems better than what I have. Perhaps its the potential upward mobility I'm envious of. I try to persuade myself that the biglaw business model is going down sooner or later.




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