New associate banter

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courtneylove
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Re: New associate banter

Postby courtneylove » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:19 pm

mr. wednesday wrote: I'm in gov't and have been teased by my coworkers for still being in my office at 4:45pm on a Friday. But you all undoubtably make more than twice what I make so.


same... the more senior attorneys in my office roll in around 9am and are all completely gone by 5pm. my work so far has actually been fun and interesting, plus in my first two weeks my office has thrown two parties and the atmosphere is so casual people just hang out and talk in the hallway. i'm already exchanging dog pictures with the division head via our govt email addresses. idk why i spent so much time applying to biglaw firms. oh ya, $$$. 8)

masterbrowski
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Re: New associate banter

Postby masterbrowski » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:45 pm

courtneylove wrote:
mr. wednesday wrote: I'm in gov't and have been teased by my coworkers for still being in my office at 4:45pm on a Friday. But you all undoubtably make more than twice what I make so.


same... the more senior attorneys in my office roll in around 9am and are all completely gone by 5pm. my work so far has actually been fun and interesting, plus in my first two weeks my office has thrown two parties and the atmosphere is so casual people just hang out and talk in the hallway. i'm already exchanging dog pictures with the division head via our govt email addresses. idk why i spent so much time applying to biglaw firms. oh ya, $$$. 8)


This is new associate banter. Ur ruining our party.

stayway
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Re: New associate banter

Postby stayway » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:19 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:
Don't take this personally, but I want to strangle you.

If I get out before 10PM, I'm REALLY happy.

Can't blame anyone but myself for my situation though.


haha its ok. I'm still someone's bitch. but I guess I'm fortunate to work 50 hours MAX a week and still get paid decent. I get paid what Big 4 accounting in my market make. hoping I can get paid more after my 6 month evaluation (along with getting officially licensed - hopefully).

In other news...hired outside counsel for the first time...that retainer fee shit was interesting...also closed/executed my first commercial lease agreement (ofc with assistance from outside counsel).

Still doing bitch work on the side though.

Headybrah
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Headybrah » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:27 pm

NinerFan wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:Don't take this personally, but I want to strangle you.

If I get out before 10PM, I'm REALLY happy.

Can't blame anyone but myself for my situation though.


Serious question: if you had the chance right now, would you cut your pay by 40% to be able to go home at 5:30?


Reliably at 5:30? Hell yes.


make market in a small state - Im out by 5:30 every day. More money would be nice, but Im digging my quality of life!

wildhaggis
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Re: New associate banter

Postby wildhaggis » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:31 pm

Had a 50+ hours billed week last week, but this week the work started to peter out.

Anyone else still have trouble being consistently busy?

09042014
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Re: New associate banter

Postby 09042014 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:35 pm

I've heard hours wise nothing counts in the stub year. Is this true?

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Old Gregg
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Old Gregg » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:23 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I've heard hours wise nothing counts in the stub year. Is this true?

Yes

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:29 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I've heard hours wise nothing counts in the stub year. Is this true?

Yes


Ya basically. You might get a nod if you were hellaciously busy when you first started, but it depends.

Anonymous User
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:32 am

Big Shrimpin wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:Don't take this personally, but I want to strangle you.

If I get out before 10PM, I'm REALLY happy.

Can't blame anyone but myself for my situation though.


Serious question: if you had the chance right now, would you cut your pay by 40% to be able to go home at 5:30?


Absofuckinglutely.

For me, the money isn't worth being someone's slave 24/7. Now, if I was looking at a really fat bonus (my firm is lockstep/Cravath-scale), then I would reconsider. But until you're really just a fucking slave to someone, you wouldn't understand my position.

Maybe I just have a low tolerance for abuse - iono.

This actually makes me feel better about my situation. Missed the big law boat but was able to snag biggov. Low six figs plus get to leave the office by 6 everyday. I'm greatful but to be honest, I was really bummed out about not getting biglaw, but seeing that people would trade positions, adds perspective. thanks for sharing.

Anonymous User
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:00 pm

TatteredDignity wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:Don't take this personally, but I want to strangle you.

If I get out before 10PM, I'm REALLY happy.

Can't blame anyone but myself for my situation though.


Serious question: if you had the chance right now, would you cut your pay by 40% to be able to go home at 5:30?


I'm a 3L and I'm making this decision right now. Either major secondary market V20 firm next year or F100 in house position that pays low six figures. Is it crazy to give up the money? The lifestyle thing seems awesome but I don't want to screw myself in the long run. Any advice?

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Old Gregg
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
TatteredDignity wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:Don't take this personally, but I want to strangle you.

If I get out before 10PM, I'm REALLY happy.

Can't blame anyone but myself for my situation though.


Serious question: if you had the chance right now, would you cut your pay by 40% to be able to go home at 5:30?


I'm a 3L and I'm making this decision right now. Either major secondary market V20 firm next year or F100 in house position that pays low six figures. Is it crazy to give up the money? The lifestyle thing seems awesome but I don't want to screw myself in the long run. Any advice?


You're sacrificing a higher ceiling for a better lifestyle. If you spent some time at the V20, you'd be able to work yourself to a choice where the sacrifice for a better lifestyle isn't as big.

Anonymous User
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:31 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
You're sacrificing a higher ceiling for a better lifestyle. If you spent some time at the V20, you'd be able to work yourself to a choice where the sacrifice for a better lifestyle isn't as big.


I get what you're saying. Would it make a difference if I didn't have any debt? Would you then recommend the inhouse position?

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Stanford4Me
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Stanford4Me » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
You're sacrificing a higher ceiling for a better lifestyle. If you spent some time at the V20, you'd be able to work yourself to a choice where the sacrifice for a better lifestyle isn't as big.


I get what you're saying. Would it make a difference if I didn't have any debt? Would you then recommend the inhouse position?

You have to think about your long-term career ambitions. The V20 will give you better options, even outside if your standard "exit options." You'll meet influential people at and through the V20 and may find paths that interest you that you previously hadn't considered.

On the flip side, the lifestyle that comes with the well paying in-house position can't be underestimated, especially if you're someone who values his(her) personal well-being.

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Old Gregg
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
You're sacrificing a higher ceiling for a better lifestyle. If you spent some time at the V20, you'd be able to work yourself to a choice where the sacrifice for a better lifestyle isn't as big.


I get what you're saying. Would it make a difference if I didn't have any debt? Would you then recommend the inhouse position?


Why would it?

You're a smart guy. You managed to press a bunch of keys to register here, do well in that thing called law school and score a prestigious job (or two). What do you think?

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Old Gregg
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:43 pm

On the flip side, the lifestyle that comes with the well paying in-house position can't be underestimated, especially if you're someone who values his(her) personal well-being.


It's not just that. Starting in an in-house position basically guarantees that you'll never advance significantly in-house. When in big law, it is always very important that if an associate laterals in-house, he lateral at the right level of seniority. The more junior you are, the less room there is for advancement. The more senior you are, the more room there is. This also depends on how big the company is.

Four years at the V20 means he can lateral in-house at a more senior position, with a better salary, higher ceiling and better lifestyle.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Stanford4Me » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:44 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
On the flip side, the lifestyle that comes with the well paying in-house position can't be underestimated, especially if you're someone who values his(her) personal well-being.


It's not just that. Starting in an in-house position basically guarantees that you'll never advance significantly in-house. When in big law, it is always very important that if an associate laterals in-house, he lateral at the right level of seniority. The more junior you are, the less room there is for advancement. The more senior you are, the more room there is. This also depends on how big the company is.

Four years at the V20 means he can lateral in-house at a more senior position, with a better salary, higher ceiling and better lifestyle.

Truth.

Anonymous User
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:57 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
You're sacrificing a higher ceiling for a better lifestyle. If you spent some time at the V20, you'd be able to work yourself to a choice where the sacrifice for a better lifestyle isn't as big.


I get what you're saying. Would it make a difference if I didn't have any debt? Would you then recommend the inhouse position?


Why would it?

You're a smart guy. You managed to press a bunch of keys to register here, do well in that thing called law school and score a prestigious job (or two). What do you think?


First, thanks for the advice. Second, you offer A lot great advice on TLS but you always couch it with some rude/silly comment. Clearly I have my own opinion, the point of a forum is to get other viewpoints, to look at an issue in a different light. While you're insight is greatly appreciated it would come off a lot better without the snarky comments.

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Old Gregg
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
You're sacrificing a higher ceiling for a better lifestyle. If you spent some time at the V20, you'd be able to work yourself to a choice where the sacrifice for a better lifestyle isn't as big.


I get what you're saying. Would it make a difference if I didn't have any debt? Would you then recommend the inhouse position?


Why would it?

You're a smart guy. You managed to press a bunch of keys to register here, do well in that thing called law school and score a prestigious job (or two). What do you think?


First, thanks for the advice. Second, you offer A lot great advice on TLS but you always couch it with some rude/silly comment. Clearly I have my own opinion, the point of a forum is to get other viewpoints, to look at an issue in a different light. While you're insight is greatly appreciated it would come off a lot better without the snarky comments.


Just pushing you to put on your big people pants. Don't take it personal.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: New associate banter

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:47 pm

masterbrowski wrote:
courtneylove wrote:
mr. wednesday wrote: I'm in gov't and have been teased by my coworkers for still being in my office at 4:45pm on a Friday. But you all undoubtably make more than twice what I make so.


same... the more senior attorneys in my office roll in around 9am and are all completely gone by 5pm. my work so far has actually been fun and interesting, plus in my first two weeks my office has thrown two parties and the atmosphere is so casual people just hang out and talk in the hallway. i'm already exchanging dog pictures with the division head via our govt email addresses. idk why i spent so much time applying to biglaw firms. oh ya, $$$. 8)


This is new associate banter. Ur ruining our party.

On the other hand, I feel pretty confident that I'm not about to get furloughed at my biglaw job, so that's something.

Anonymous User
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:53 am

New NY associate placing a hypothetical here in re: the hours situation-

Let's say you want biglaw for 2-3 years and then exit to do something else. And, let's say you appear outwardly to everyone important as professional, reliable, hard-working. Once it's time to look to lateral, what do you need? Good recommendations from a few attorneys at your firm, good work experience, some good contacts. All of that being true, if you aren't gunning for partner, what's the point of staying at work super late every night and working 70-90 hour weeks? If you can leave at 8 or so every night and still appear all of the things above, plus be available at home if needed, why stay til midnight? Don't accept every assignment, learn to say no once in a while when it's reasonable....I guess I'm just trying to say, if you are looking to do a "good", suitable job but not go above and beyond to "REALLY" impress anyone, what's the mode of attack? Not saying to do too little to get yourself fired or make yourself disposable, just saying not going above and beyond in an attempt to impress everyone an gun for partner. Any and all comments/devils advocate point welcome.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Big Shrimpin » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:New NY associate placing a hypothetical here in re: the hours situation-

Let's say you want biglaw for 2-3 years and then exit to do something else. And, let's say you appear outwardly to everyone important as professional, reliable, hard-working. Once it's time to look to lateral, what do you need? Good recommendations from a few attorneys at your firm, good work experience, some good contacts. All of that being true, if you aren't gunning for partner, what's the point of staying at work super late every night and working 70-90 hour weeks? If you can leave at 8 or so every night and still appear all of the things above, plus be available at home if needed, why stay til midnight? Don't accept every assignment, learn to say no once in a while when it's reasonable....I guess I'm just trying to say, if you are looking to do a "good", suitable job but not go above and beyond to "REALLY" impress anyone, what's the mode of attack? Not saying to do too little to get yourself fired or make yourself disposable, just saying not going above and beyond in an attempt to impress everyone an gun for partner. Any and all comments/devils advocate point welcome.


For me in lit, I'm on a huge case with a few other people. One does not simply have the ability to "not accept every assignment." If I did that, the partners/senior associates would be all like, "the fuck you're not doing this." I'd probably be insta-shitcanned.

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thesealocust
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Re: New associate banter

Postby thesealocust » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:26 am

Big Shrimpin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:New NY associate placing a hypothetical here in re: the hours situation-

Let's say you want biglaw for 2-3 years and then exit to do something else. And, let's say you appear outwardly to everyone important as professional, reliable, hard-working. Once it's time to look to lateral, what do you need? Good recommendations from a few attorneys at your firm, good work experience, some good contacts. All of that being true, if you aren't gunning for partner, what's the point of staying at work super late every night and working 70-90 hour weeks? If you can leave at 8 or so every night and still appear all of the things above, plus be available at home if needed, why stay til midnight? Don't accept every assignment, learn to say no once in a while when it's reasonable....I guess I'm just trying to say, if you are looking to do a "good", suitable job but not go above and beyond to "REALLY" impress anyone, what's the mode of attack? Not saying to do too little to get yourself fired or make yourself disposable, just saying not going above and beyond in an attempt to impress everyone an gun for partner. Any and all comments/devils advocate point welcome.


For me in lit, I'm on a huge case with a few other people. One does not simply have the ability to "not accept every assignment." If I did that, the partners/senior associates would be all like, "the fuck you're not doing this." I'd probably be insta-shitcanned.


+1. It's not like as a summer where assignments came one at a time with a check to see if you were available. You only have control over your schedule at the extremes, otherwise your work will be matter based and the business will depend who you're working with and what your matters are doing.

Also, long nights come because it will take a long time to do something well but you'll have a deadline to finish it / deliver to a more senior lawyer / court / client. I've basically never stayed late to work on something I didn't need to pass of that night or by start of business the next morning.

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Lincoln
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Lincoln » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:23 am

Big Shrimpin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:New NY associate placing a hypothetical here in re: the hours situation-

Let's say you want biglaw for 2-3 years and then exit to do something else. And, let's say you appear outwardly to everyone important as professional, reliable, hard-working. Once it's time to look to lateral, what do you need? Good recommendations from a few attorneys at your firm, good work experience, some good contacts. All of that being true, if you aren't gunning for partner, what's the point of staying at work super late every night and working 70-90 hour weeks? If you can leave at 8 or so every night and still appear all of the things above, plus be available at home if needed, why stay til midnight? Don't accept every assignment, learn to say no once in a while when it's reasonable....I guess I'm just trying to say, if you are looking to do a "good", suitable job but not go above and beyond to "REALLY" impress anyone, what's the mode of attack? Not saying to do too little to get yourself fired or make yourself disposable, just saying not going above and beyond in an attempt to impress everyone an gun for partner. Any and all comments/devils advocate point welcome.


For me in lit, I'm on a huge case with a few other people. One does not simply have the ability to "not accept every assignment." If I did that, the partners/senior associates would be all like, "the fuck you're not doing this." I'd probably be insta-shitcanned.


This. I'm the only jr associate on a group of cases, and there is no saying no. If there's nothing to do, I can leave at 6. But when things have to get done, I stay until they're done. If I don't do it, the 4th year associate would have to. He already works a lot more than I do, and he's a lot more expensive for the client than I am. It would take another first-year a week to learn the issues in the case, so that's not really an option.

Anonymous User
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:09 pm

OP from above here. I totally get that as a first year you can't let the work fall to a 4th year bc you want to go home earlier, but how about leaving earlyish (8ish) and finishing the work at home, or coming in super early the next morning, or both? I'm just trying to devise a way to get everything done but also get to go home and spend time with my wife, who is literally just sitting at home alone. And no, I'm not talking about telling a partner or associate no when there's an assignment that must clearly be done by you, I'm talking about not volunteering for more work, trying to stay "under the radar" and look as busy as possible when new assignments are being passed out, that sort of thing. As I said, the goal is to do a good job but not be perceived as a workhorse or a gunner.

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thesealocust
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Re: New associate banter

Postby thesealocust » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP from above here. I totally get that as a first year you can't let the work fall to a 4th year bc you want to go home earlier, but how about leaving earlyish (8ish) and finishing the work at home, or coming in super early the next morning, or both? I'm just trying to devise a way to get everything done but also get to go home and spend time with my wife, who is literally just sitting at home alone. And no, I'm not talking about telling a partner or associate no when there's an assignment that must clearly be done by you, I'm talking about not volunteering for more work, trying to stay "under the radar" and look as busy as possible when new assignments are being passed out, that sort of thing. As I said, the goal is to do a good job but not be perceived as a workhorse or a gunner.


Sometimes all of that will be possible. Sometimes you'll have no work after 6. Other times your whole team will be working at 9 pm, frequently passing documents back and forth or stopping in to check on things - nobody will block the exit if you try to leave, and you'll be happier if you don't just hang around for the sake of hanging around, but it's not always so simple.

Unfortunately, the line is rarely "I should work a little harder on this to make it sparkle" (read: workhorse/gunner) and more frequently "It would take me 6 hours to do this in a way that doesn't make me look like a drooling, lazy retard, and they need it by the morning, and it's 8:00 p.m., whydid I choose this profession".




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