New associate banter

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Old Gregg
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Old Gregg » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:Do most firms have biz development accounts for first years? My secondary market biglaw firm gives us like $800 a year for client development, and I have no idea how to spend it. (First world problem, I know.) I know very few people here, and I highly doubt anyone I know in this town will ever be a client of the firm. How do you guys use these funds?



Varies from firm to firm. My advice: Hold onto it until you have an opportunity to use it, rather than creating that opportunity. Wait for connections to develop, then offer dinner or something like that. Don't do it the other way around.

Anonymous User
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:40 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Do most firms have biz development accounts for first years? My secondary market biglaw firm gives us like $800 a year for client development, and I have no idea how to spend it. (First world problem, I know.) I know very few people here, and I highly doubt anyone I know in this town will ever be a client of the firm. How do you guys use these funds?



Varies from firm to firm. My advice: Hold onto it until you have an opportunity to use it, rather than creating that opportunity. Wait for connections to develop, then offer dinner or something like that. Don't do it the other way around.



my midlaw firm gives first years $2,500 in business development budget. Pretty sweet perk.

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reasonable_man
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Re: New associate banter

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:29 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:It kind of starts to become a negative feedback loop. Once you start somewhat disliking your firm or big law, it can turn quickly into hating it. Just need to stay as objective as possible, find the positives and the negatives, don't turn the negatives into positives and don't turn the positives into the negatives. But if you do find negatives that you can correct, then correct them.

Often times, many negatives many be associated with working with a particular person as opposed to working at that firm; correcting that negative would be as simple as trying to work for someone else. As a junior associate, many of you all owe it to yourself to try out different attorneys to work under. Before you know it, you'll be permanently under one's shadow and you won't be able to escape from it. Best to shop around now rather than commit (that is, unless you're already working under someone you really like working under).


This is really good advice.

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reasonable_man
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Re: New associate banter

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:32 pm

I used to have sort of an unlimited account to within reason. Now I'm back in a midlaw setting and I have no idea what my limits are with respect to client development funds.

But on a more fun note - solo oral argument tomorrow on appellate brief. Should be fun (I hope).

rad lulz
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Re: New associate banter

Postby rad lulz » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:32 pm

RM when do I stop constantly feeling like a total dumbass

And when do I start feeling like a barely competent individual

edit: this isn't your first solo oral arg, right?

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reasonable_man
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Re: New associate banter

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:46 pm

rad lulz wrote:RM when do I stop constantly feeling like a total dumbass

And when do I start feeling like a barely competent individual

edit: this isn't your first solo oral arg, right?



No, I've argued dozens and dozens of motions for summary judgment and similar issue and I've seconded Court of Appeals Args before. This is my second fully solo oral argument on an appeal (where I handled the entire appeal and argument from start to finish).

The first year is by far the worst Rad - it really is a hard year. In some ways, its worse than the first year of law school because the path to success is less well defined and there is more than one way to "pass" or "fail." By about the end of the first year, you will start to feel like you know what you're doing. As far as really actually knowing what you're doing - that is different for everyone, but I feel like I actually started to know what I was doing after 2 years (and then realized at the 4 year mark that I didn't know all that much when I was a 2nd year. Its sort of one of those constantly evolving processes. So don't be too freaked out by it. Just keep in mind that senior associates and partners have probably seen your problem before (and should be used as an asset).

rad lulz
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Re: New associate banter

Postby rad lulz » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:52 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
rad lulz wrote:RM when do I stop constantly feeling like a total dumbass

And when do I start feeling like a barely competent individual

edit: this isn't your first solo oral arg, right?



No, I've argued dozens and dozens of motions for summary judgment and similar issue and I've seconded Court of Appeals Args before. This is my second fully solo oral argument on an appeal (where I handled the entire appeal and argument from start to finish).

The first year is by far the worst Rad - it really is a hard year. In some ways, its worse than the first year of law school because the path to success is less well defined and there is more than one way to "pass" or "fail." By about the end of the first year, you will start to feel like you know what you're doing. As far as really actually knowing what you're doing - that is different for everyone, but I feel like I actually started to know what I was doing after 2 years (and then realized at the 4 year mark that I didn't know all that much when I was a 2nd year. Its sort of one of those constantly evolving processes. So don't be too freaked out by it. Just keep in mind that senior associates and partners have probably seen your problem before (and should be used as an asset).

Thanks for the advice; definitely makes me feel better. The attys I work with have been really helpful, especially the sr associate. She's done a great job of making sure I don't just totally mess up and she's been good with trying to get me on some good intro-type matters.

I just hope I pass the bar next week so that I can be a dumb lawyer instead of dumb grad. Such cache!

Best of luck tmrw man. You feelin good about your arguments?

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Big Shrimpin » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:07 pm

rad lulz wrote:RM when do I stop constantly feeling like a total dumbass

And when do I start feeling like a barely competent individual

edit: this isn't your first solo oral arg, right?


For me it's been never/never for a year so far.

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reasonable_man
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Re: New associate banter

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:15 pm

rad lulz wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:
rad lulz wrote:RM when do I stop constantly feeling like a total dumbass

And when do I start feeling like a barely competent individual

edit: this isn't your first solo oral arg, right?



No, I've argued dozens and dozens of motions for summary judgment and similar issue and I've seconded Court of Appeals Args before. This is my second fully solo oral argument on an appeal (where I handled the entire appeal and argument from start to finish).

The first year is by far the worst Rad - it really is a hard year. In some ways, its worse than the first year of law school because the path to success is less well defined and there is more than one way to "pass" or "fail." By about the end of the first year, you will start to feel like you know what you're doing. As far as really actually knowing what you're doing - that is different for everyone, but I feel like I actually started to know what I was doing after 2 years (and then realized at the 4 year mark that I didn't know all that much when I was a 2nd year. Its sort of one of those constantly evolving processes. So don't be too freaked out by it. Just keep in mind that senior associates and partners have probably seen your problem before (and should be used as an asset).

Thanks for the advice; definitely makes me feel better. The attys I work with have been really helpful, especially the sr associate. She's done a great job of making sure I don't just totally mess up and she's been good with trying to get me on some good intro-type matters.

I just hope I pass the bar next week so that I can be a dumb lawyer instead of dumb grad. Such cache!

Best of luck tmrw man. You feelin good about your arguments?


Thats good - stick close to her - a good mentor is invaluable.

I'm feeling pretty good - but I refuse to let myself "feel" too much about it right now. Just need to go in there and get it done.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Big Shrimpin » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:17 pm

Good to see ya RM - hope all is well brother, and I'm sure you'll kill it tomorrow.

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reasonable_man
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Re: New associate banter

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:24 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:Good to see ya RM - hope all is well brother, and I'm sure you'll kill it tomorrow.



You too brah - and I'm sure you're killin it way more than you give yourself credit for above..

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20160810
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Re: New associate banter

Postby 20160810 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:46 pm

First long day of doc review.

It hurts my soul a little, but honestly it's fine, because it makes it really easy to bill a lot of hours without having to gun for moar work.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: New associate banter

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:00 am

rad lulz wrote:Best of luck tmrw man.

Ditto.

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reasonable_man
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Re: New associate banter

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:04 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Best of luck tmrw man.

Ditto.



Thanks - appreciate it. Getting up nice and early to go over everything one more time. The appeal has been perfected for so damn long that I actually spent time today re-Keyciting the cases and seeing if there have been any new case law developments since we perfected. I feel like my worst fear would be to walk face first into a new contrary precedent...

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20160810
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Re: New associate banter

Postby 20160810 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:11 am

Left the office around 8 today, was basically the last one out. Perk of working in a tertiary market is that I'm pretty sure billing 2000-2200 qualifies me as gunning for partnership.

phonepro
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Re: New associate banter

Postby phonepro » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:24 am

SBL wrote:First long day of doc review.

It hurts my soul a little, but honestly it's fine, because it makes it really easy to bill a lot of hours without having to gun for moar work.


I love doc review - is that weird? I don't have to think too much and I can bill a shitload of hours LOL.

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Old Gregg
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Old Gregg » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:37 am

phonepro wrote:
SBL wrote:First long day of doc review.

It hurts my soul a little, but honestly it's fine, because it makes it really easy to bill a lot of hours without having to gun for moar work.


I love doc review - is that weird? I don't have to think too much and I can bill a shitload of hours LOL.


Bingo.

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20160810
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Re: New associate banter

Postby 20160810 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:52 am

I much prefer research but I'll take doc review if it's there. Dem hours.

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thesealocust
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Re: New associate banter

Postby thesealocust » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:54 am

Ah, the halcyon days of worrying about having too few hours :(

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Old Gregg
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Old Gregg » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:56 am

thesealocust wrote:Ah, the halcyon days of worrying about having too few hours :(


Yeah, I find that at our firms it's like a fire hydrant blowing water at our faces...

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thesealocust
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Re: New associate banter

Postby thesealocust » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:01 am

Fresh Prince wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Ah, the halcyon days of worrying about having too few hours :(


Yeah, I find that at our firms it's like a fire hydrant blowing water at our faces...


Truth. I'm finding I'm almost bitter about how much I've learned over the past year (though I'm still largely clueless) because as painful as it has been, it's starting to feel like there may be some method to the madness.

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Old Gregg
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Old Gregg » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:32 am

thesealocust wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Ah, the halcyon days of worrying about having too few hours :(


Yeah, I find that at our firms it's like a fire hydrant blowing water at our faces...


Truth. I'm finding I'm almost bitter about how much I've learned over the past year (though I'm still largely clueless) because as painful as it has been, it's starting to feel like there may be some method to the madness.


Once you figure out the method, you can start anticipating and taking ownership. That's where you begin to shine.

But remember, the reward for good work is more work. Such is life...

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beach_terror
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Re: New associate banter

Postby beach_terror » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:41 am

At least in lit, whenever I feel like I'm freeing up and may need to ask for work I get thrown into something that requires all of my attention for a few days. Luckily my firm doesn't prioritize doc review (at least for me right now) so I always have a few hours of it sitting around if I need some hours to occupy myself. Also not sure if its because I'm a lit boutique or if all lit is like this, but I've already worked on some motions, complaints, and depo questions in my first month here. Definitely enjoying it.

Also, how long until you guys/gals are going to be doing your own depos? Sounds like they want me ready within a year or so, which is sorta terrifying.

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thesealocust
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Re: New associate banter

Postby thesealocust » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:27 pm

beach_terror wrote:Also, how long until you guys/gals are going to be doing your own depos? Sounds like they want me ready within a year or so, which is sorta terrifying.


I think these kinds of questions always depend on the stakes. Big firms are notorious for being more pyramidal and it taking longer to get substantive responsibility, but it all really depends on the deal.

I'm less than a year in and have, through hilarious and terrible circumstances, wound up one-man-armying small deals because somebody had to do it and nobody else was free in the time frame we had.

On the other hand, I've seen headline-making deals where the most junior lawyer on the team had been with the firm for more than half a decade...

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: New associate banter

Postby Big Shrimpin » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:30 pm

phonepro wrote:
SBL wrote:First long day of doc review.

It hurts my soul a little, but honestly it's fine, because it makes it really easy to bill a lot of hours without having to gun for moar work.


I love doc review - is that weird? I don't have to think too much and I can bill a shitload of hours LOL.


I look back to my doc review days as a first year with such nostalgia now. I didn't realize at the time how comparatively unstressful it would be to everything else.




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