New associate banter Forum

[20160810]

What kinds of costumes is he dressing up in?

Without getting too specific, it is a soldier's costume (think WWII).

World war two era soldier is pretty specific bro

[studebaker07]

What kinds of costumes is he dressing up in?

Without getting too specific, it is a soldier's costume (think WWII).

World war two era soldier is pretty specific bro

True, but its a specific person. Maybe that gave too much away...

[20160810]

I really hope he's dressing up as Hitler

[Anonymous User]

There are some interesting sources on our lives if you know where to look.

We came at this as stary-eyed college grads and law students with big debt and big ambition. But this system is way, way older than us, and it has been examined from a lot of interesting perspectives.

I recently stumbled on a lengthy treatise on maximizing law firm profitability. Reading about recruiting, mentoring, associate development, etc. from that point of view was interesting. Not full of revelations necessarily, but very interesting.

There's also this: http://www.amazon.com/Tournament-Lawyer ... 0226278786 - which puts the oddity of the big firm model and the Cravath system in stark relief. It's particularly interesting to read about the history of associate progression and development over the years.

I'm still not sure what my ambitions are, but this insane system feels more comfortable knowing that other people think it's insane too...

[rad lulz]

Any of you bros coppin dem billables today

[Anonymous User]

Any of you bros coppin dem billables today

Bit the bullet and ground out some projects yesterday, but today is free.

I'm already near 2,000 for the year (over 1,800 last I counted, maybe already over 1,900) and I've completely abandoned the concept of trying for billables. My life is constant triage, trying to avoid more work, and striving... to make things hurt less.

[run26.2]

There are some interesting sources on our lives if you know where to look.

We came at this as stary-eyed college grads and law students with big debt and big ambition. But this system is way, way older than us, and it has been examined from a lot of interesting perspectives.

I recently stumbled on a lengthy treatise on maximizing law firm profitability. Reading about recruiting, mentoring, associate development, etc. from that point of view was interesting. Not full of revelations necessarily, but very interesting.

There's also this: http://www.amazon.com/Tournament-Lawyer ... 0226278786 - which puts the oddity of the big firm model and the Cravath system in stark relief. It's particularly interesting to read about the history of associate progression and development over the years.

I'm still not sure what my ambitions are, but this insane system feels more comfortable knowing that other people think it's insane too...

The Tournament of Lawyers resource is likely going to be dated since it was written in 1994 and partnership prospects have changed since then. Still, since there are used copies for about 25-cents, I bought one.

What was the lengthy treatise on maximizing law firm profitability?

[Anonymous User]

The Tournament of Lawyers resource is likely going to be dated since it was written in 1994 and partnership prospects have changed since then.

I thought so too, but leafing through it made me think it might be more cyclical than permanently changed. These firms have been around for dozens of years, often over a hundred, and some passages talked about partnership prospects getting as short as 5 years and being as long as 10+ and basically unheard of over various time frames.

There's a chance we're in for an era of relatively easy partnership prospects. If business picks up over the next decade, there are going to be serious gaps in the profession due to reduced hiring, lay-offs, and wear and tear from those who stuck it out or were "lucky" enough to get in on the ground floor.

The "lengthy treatise on maximizing law firm profitability" was one of those big reporter type books with new pages added now and then you see in law libraries for specific topics, except it was about (you guessed it) maximizing law firm profitability. That may have even been its title.

[bk1]

This?

[Anonymous User]

This?

bingo. Some real gems; I leafed through it as uber-awkward procrastination the other day

[tfer2222]

Reading through the thread a bit about everyone's home office set-ups. I live in an NYC studio with barely enough room for a bed, couch and TV. How important is it to have a full home-desk set-up with monitors/scanners/bells/whistles?

[mr. wednesday]

Reading through the thread a bit about everyone's home office set-ups. I live in an NYC studio with barely enough room for a bed, couch and TV. How important is it to have a full home-desk set-up with monitors/scanners/bells/whistles?

You're going to want a desk and a nice chair, or you'll have to go into the office evenings/weekends to do work. I'd give up my couch before I gave up my desk, since you can watch tv from bed and if your apartment is too small for a desk, it's probably too small to invite people over to sit on the couch. You can fit a laptop and a second monitor on even a very small desk, and put a printer/scanner underneath the desk on a low printer stand.

[tfer2222]

Reading through the thread a bit about everyone's home office set-ups. I live in an NYC studio with barely enough room for a bed, couch and TV. How important is it to have a full home-desk set-up with monitors/scanners/bells/whistles?

You're going to want a desk and a nice chair, or you'll have to go into the office evenings/weekends to do work. I'd give up my couch before I gave up my desk, since you can watch tv from bed and if your apartment is too small for a desk, it's probably too small to invite people over to sit on the couch. You can fit a laptop and a second monitor on even a very small desk, and put a printer/scanner underneath the desk on a low printer stand.

ugh ok, thanks.

I start tomorrow and feel completely clueless and useless and in over my head.

[mr. wednesday]

ugh ok, thanks.

I start tomorrow and feel completely clueless and useless and in over my head.

I think everyone feels that way, don't worry. You probably won't have much to take home this week, and you could just go to the ikea in red hook on Saturday and come home with a small desk for like $50 if you wanted. You can slowly add the other stuff, like a docking station and monitor, in the upcoming weeks as your workload increases.

[jeeptiger09]

Billed 7.5 today.

[Anonymous User]

Bros,

I went home to visit my family this weekend (about a three hour drive from where I work) and spent the whole time doing work. Now I am back, I just got off the road for three hours, and I have at least 3-4 more billable hours of shit to do before I can call it a night because all of this stuff needs to be reviewed by Monday am.

All I want to do is drink a beer and watch Breaking Bad and instead I'm stuck doing this. I realize that on the grand scale of human injustice getting paid a good salary to do usually-kinda-interesting work that requires a lot of my time ranks pretty low, but this is the first time I've really felt indications that this job may really have a way of sucking it out of me.

Anyhow, time to quit being a pussy and get to work. Just needed to get a little "this is a bummer" moment off my chest. Sucked to have my weekend with family spent on Westlaw.

[Old Gregg]

Bros,

I went home to visit my family this weekend (about a three hour drive from where I work) and spent the whole time doing work. Now I am back, I just got off the road for three hours, and I have at least 3-4 more billable hours of shit to do before I can call it a night because all of this stuff needs to be reviewed by Monday am.

All I want to do is drink a beer and watch Breaking Bad and instead I'm stuck doing this. I realize that on the grand scale of human injustice getting paid a good salary to do usually-kinda-interesting work that requires a lot of my time ranks pretty low, but this is the first time I've really felt indications that this job may really have a way of sucking it out of me.

Anyhow, time to quit being a pussy and get to work. Just needed to get a little "this is a bummer" moment off my chest. Sucked to have my weekend with family spent on Westlaw.

What kind of firm you at? Not all biglaw places are like this. But anyways, I assume you're in your first two years. Now's the time to put in the time. It'll pay off in the end.

[Anonymous User]

Bros,

I went home to visit my family this weekend (about a three hour drive from where I work) and spent the whole time doing work. Now I am back, I just got off the road for three hours, and I have at least 3-4 more billable hours of shit to do before I can call it a night because all of this stuff needs to be reviewed by Monday am.

All I want to do is drink a beer and watch Breaking Bad and instead I'm stuck doing this. I realize that on the grand scale of human injustice getting paid a good salary to do usually-kinda-interesting work that requires a lot of my time ranks pretty low, but this is the first time I've really felt indications that this job may really have a way of sucking it out of me.

Anyhow, time to quit being a pussy and get to work. Just needed to get a little "this is a bummer" moment off my chest. Sucked to have my weekend with family spent on Westlaw.

What kind of firm you at? Not all biglaw places are like this. But anyways, I assume you're in your first two years. Now's the time to put in the time. It'll pay off in the end.

1st year at what we call biglaw but what is really a midlaw shop in a smaller market. Normally the hours are relatively humane, I just got owned with a bunch of "oh this just came up and it's time sensitive" type stuff this weekend.

[Old Gregg]

1st year at what we call biglaw but what is really a midlaw shop in a smaller market. Normally the hours are relatively humane, I just got owned with a bunch of "oh this just came up and it's time sensitive" type stuff this weekend.

Gotcha. This kind of shit always worries me. I bill a ton of hours at my firm, and always think "grass is greener" in secondary markets and in midlaw, but I'm always sort of skeptical.

I used to be of the opinion that you have to work hard if you want to earn six figures. And while I still believe that, it's hard to watch when you see Kim Kardashian on TV.

[Anonymous User]

1st year at what we call biglaw but what is really a midlaw shop in a smaller market. Normally the hours are relatively humane, I just got owned with a bunch of "oh this just came up and it's time sensitive" type stuff this weekend.

Gotcha. This kind of shit always worries me. I bill a ton of hours at my firm, and always think "grass is greener" in secondary markets and in midlaw, but I'm always sort of skeptical.

I used to be of the opinion that you have to work hard if you want to earn six figures. And while I still believe that, it's hard to watch when you see Kim Kardashian on TV.

I think the grass may be greener in some respects and not in others. I've never really worked in biglaw, but I summered at a good midlaw shop in a primary market and work at a good midlaw (maybe quasi biglaw) shop in a secondary market, so I can at least compare those two. Sometimes weekends get slaughtered and deadlines are bad at either place, but here it is genuinely odd to see someone at the office past 8 pm. If I'm there late there will usually be one or two other attorneys I bump into but that's it.

Of course there's also the money issue. I make a good deal less than I'd make at a comparable firm in a primary market. Then again, I rent a nice place for less than $1,000. So maybe it evens out?

All I know right now is that the only thing worse than being up late on a project is being up late on a project where I'm bluffing my way through because I don't know wtf I'm doing.

[Anonymous User]

But anyways, I assume you're in your first two years. Now's the time to put in the time. It'll pay off in the end.

Can you expand on this please? I think an "it gets better" message would go a long way ITT...

[studebaker07]

I honestly wish I had MORE work to do. Some weeks there are a ton of projects going and then other weeks (like the week ahead), it looks exceedingly quiet. I can't really ask for more work because the firm I am at puts me in charge of client files and projects, so if any new work comes in, I am often aware of exactly what needs to be done and I calendar it myself. Maybe its time to get out there and drum up more business?

[Anonymous User]

Up till 2:30 not-quite-finishing things. Now time to go in and actually finish them. Wheeeeeeee.

[Anonymous User]

I think the grass is undoubtedly greener at my secondary market biglaw firm, but it's still more work than your average job. Hours are tolerable (8:30-6:00 most days, with a few hours on the weekend here or there). I'm sure it'll get busier as I get more integrated, but the firm is virtually empty by 7:00 most nights. 1850 is the "requirement," with 2050 paying top bonus, and it sounds like more than 2200 is rare. It seems that the face time requirements are minimal and working from home is the norm. I don't doubt that the weekend emergencies and quick turnarounds will wreak havoc on plans on occasion, but it's nothing like what I've heard and read about big cities.

There are of course cons compared to NYC and the like. I make less, though of course I have a 900 sq. foot apartment two blocks from work for $1000. I imagine the pay difference now is minimal, though it will get bigger with time, since our lockstep isn't like the big city lockstep. The exit opportinities aren't the same either. But all in all, from a lifestyle perspective, its a very good place to be. Can't complain... Yet.

[studebaker07]

I think the grass is undoubtedly greener at my secondary market biglaw firm, but it's still more work than your average job. Hours are tolerable (8:30-6:00 most days, with a few hours on the weekend here or there). I'm sure it'll get busier as I get more integrated, but the firm is virtually empty by 7:00 most nights. 1850 is the "requirement," with 2050 paying top bonus, and it sounds like more than 2200 is rare. It seems that the face time requirements are minimal and working from home is the norm. I don't doubt that the weekend emergencies and quick turnarounds will wreak havoc on plans on occasion, but it's nothing like what I've heard and read about big cities.

There are of course cons compared to NYC and the like. I make less, though of course I have a 900 sq. foot apartment two blocks from work for $1000. I imagine the pay difference now is minimal, though it will get bigger with time, since our lockstep isn't like the big city lockstep. The exit opportinities aren't the same either. But all in all, from a lifestyle perspective, its a very good place to be. Can't complain... Yet.

This is pretty much the way I feel. I am at a small firm (okay, maybe its more like a solo, with one person, me, as an "associate") and there is no billable hours requirement. I work pretty irregular hours and work remotely or from home a lot. Basically, most of the hours I spend working are not devoted to projects that carry billable hours. Instead, I focus more on activities that are designed to bring in more business. Finding speaking opportunities, blogging A LOT, and just generally networking to find business opportunities. All in all, I work about 8:00-6:00 every day during the week and a 3-4 hour day on Sunday is sometimes required.

So no complaints, other than I wish I had more work to do. The pay isn't terrible and is about market for a small firm, but I am more worried about advancing and getting substantive experience from projects. Ironically, that kind of experience may depend largely on my own abilities to find clients with those kinds of projects.