Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

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Anonymous User
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Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:04 pm

I am planning on doing Litigation (non-specified) and am in NYC.

I get that "fit" and "culture" are important.

What differences should I be aware of in trying to weigh between these two firms?

bdubs
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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby bdubs » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:13 pm

If you want someone to decide for you, you belong at S&C

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Detrox
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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Detrox » Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:50 pm

Retake.

Pokemon
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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Pokemon » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:05 pm

V3 >>>>>>> V5. Not even a question.

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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:13 pm

bdubs wrote:If you want someone to decide for you, you belong at S&C


Genuinely curious what the logic is here...*Can I glean anything useful form whatever this stereotype is?*

Detrox wrote:Retake.


Whats the joke?

Pokemon wrote:V3 >>>>>>> V5. Not even a question.


Are you sure its note even a question?

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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:24 pm

I was fortunate to make this decision a few years ago and am very glad I went with DPW. Working in a friendly nurturing environment makes going to work and the long hours much more bearable. S&C is a great firm, but their culture is simply terrible. My friends tell me that the associates and partners do not appreciate their juniors and just see them as a body who can be used and then tossed if they can't handle it. At DPW, the associates who do not fit into the DPW culture (e.g., difficult to work with, rude to junior associates) get a talking to to correct their behavior. This is a huge plus in my book because I can handle the work and the hours but not people who are jerks and disrespectful to people below them.

You will definitley not understand the importance of culture unless you've worked before.

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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was fortunate to make this decision a few years ago and am very glad I went with DPW. Working in a friendly nurturing environment makes going to work and the long hours much more bearable. S&C is a great firm, but their culture is simply terrible. My friends tell me that the associates and partners do not appreciate their juniors and just see them as a body who can be used and then tossed if they can't handle it. At DPW, the associates who do not fit into the DPW culture (e.g., difficult to work with, rude to junior associates) get a talking to to correct their behavior. This is a huge plus in my book because I can handle the work and the hours but not people who are jerks and disrespectful to people below them.

You will definitley not understand the importance of culture unless you've worked before.


Thank you for the helpful response. One follow up, do you have any insight into whether the workload is the same? Do you mind sharing anything about what you work in terms of hours.

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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:57 pm

weird double post.

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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I was fortunate to make this decision a few years ago and am very glad I went with DPW. Working in a friendly nurturing environment makes going to work and the long hours much more bearable. S&C is a great firm, but their culture is simply terrible. My friends tell me that the associates and partners do not appreciate their juniors and just see them as a body who can be used and then tossed if they can't handle it. At DPW, the associates who do not fit into the DPW culture (e.g., difficult to work with, rude to junior associates) get a talking to to correct their behavior. This is a huge plus in my book because I can handle the work and the hours but not people who are jerks and disrespectful to people below them.

You will definitley not understand the importance of culture unless you've worked before.


Thank you for the helpful response. One follow up, do you have any insight into whether the workload is the same? Do you mind sharing anything about what you work in terms of hours.


Same anon here: I think on average you will work more at S&C simply because of the firm culture which is perpetuated by the people they recruit. I think the people who are drawn to S&C value work more than anything else. I was told by multiple people while interviewing at S&C that they are a "quality of work firm, not a quality of life firm."

At DPW, a large percentage of our class are married or engaged and many have families. We chose this place because, while we want to do cool interesting work, we also care about other things in life besides work. I find this mentality prevalent in the people I work with, as they will often say things like "I know this sucks and I have to be here as well, but let's just get this done and get out of here" when work comes up unexpectedly. I know that's not going to change the fact that you're still here working rather than with your friends/family, but there's something nice about knowing that you and your senior are struggling with this together and that you both want to leave as soon as possible. And that's only if the work needs to be done immediately. I've had multiple occasions where something comes in on Friday and the senior wants to spend time with their kids so s/he will push to have it by Monday afternoon.

I'm pretty sure almost everyone who got an offer at DPW also got one at S&C, but it is definitely not the other way around. At S&C if you get a callback, which you will if you have the grades, you almost automatically get an offer. At DPW, the interview process is much more holistic and they really try to gauge the person and whether you would fit well into our firm.

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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:36 am

I don't mean to thread jack, but since we have a DPW associate here, I'm curious if you have any tips for the callback process. Definitely interested in the firm for many of the reasons you identified and the quality of work obviously and want to do whatever I can to increase my odds at an offer.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm pretty sure almost everyone who got an offer at DPW also got one at S&C, but it is definitely not the other way around. At S&C if you get a callback, which you will if you have the grades, you almost automatically get an offer. At DPW, the interview process is much more holistic and they really try to gauge the person and whether you would fit well into our firm.

Sorry to interrupt the DPW circle jerk but this is just absurd.

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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I was fortunate to make this decision a few years ago and am very glad I went with DPW. Working in a friendly nurturing environment makes going to work and the long hours much more bearable. S&C is a great firm, but their culture is simply terrible. My friends tell me that the associates and partners do not appreciate their juniors and just see them as a body who can be used and then tossed if they can't handle it. At DPW, the associates who do not fit into the DPW culture (e.g., difficult to work with, rude to junior associates) get a talking to to correct their behavior. This is a huge plus in my book because I can handle the work and the hours but not people who are jerks and disrespectful to people below them.

You will definitley not understand the importance of culture unless you've worked before.


Thank you for the helpful response. One follow up, do you have any insight into whether the workload is the same? Do you mind sharing anything about what you work in terms of hours.


Same anon here: I think on average you will work more at S&C simply because of the firm culture which is perpetuated by the people they recruit. I think the people who are drawn to S&C value work more than anything else. I was told by multiple people while interviewing at S&C that they are a "quality of work firm, not a quality of life firm."

At DPW, a large percentage of our class are married or engaged and many have families. We chose this place because, while we want to do cool interesting work, we also care about other things in life besides work. I find this mentality prevalent in the people I work with, as they will often say things like "I know this sucks and I have to be here as well, but let's just get this done and get out of here" when work comes up unexpectedly. I know that's not going to change the fact that you're still here working rather than with your friends/family, but there's something nice about knowing that you and your senior are struggling with this together and that you both want to leave as soon as possible. And that's only if the work needs to be done immediately. I've had multiple occasions where something comes in on Friday and the senior wants to spend time with their kids so s/he will push to have it by Monday afternoon.

I'm pretty sure almost everyone who got an offer at DPW also got one at S&C, but it is definitely not the other way around. At S&C if you get a callback, which you will if you have the grades, you almost automatically get an offer. At DPW, the interview process is much more holistic and they really try to gauge the person and whether you would fit well into our firm.


It's a personal decision. For a lot of people, the S&C culture might actually be better since they prefer the straighforwardness to passive aggressiveness. S&C has a strong no face time culture, while face time is more of an issue at DPW. The bolded in quote is completely false; at my school (HYS) DPW gave 30% more offers than S&C in New York. The offer yield rates for both are similar; which rate is higher depends on the year.

justinp
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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby justinp » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:00 am

I just got here, have they passed out the kool-aid yet?

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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:02 am

Was an SA at S&C this summer. A lot of people are also married/engaged/in a long-term relationship who choose S&C. Also, S&C is a big firm, so it doesn't really feel like there's one "firm culture." Just like law school or anywhere else, you find people you like.

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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:29 am

One of my closest law school friends and I wound up at these two firms. The take in this thread seems a little koolaide induced, but there's a kernel of truth - S&C has, and has had for a very long time, a reputation for a harsh and uncaring culture while DPW has had one for niceness and/or passive aggression. Like all generalizations, you will find exceptions and individuals who either fit the description to a T or don't fit it at all.

The data suggests S&C gives offers to almost everyone they call back and care a lot about grades, no matter what school you came from. DPW is often especially selective at the callback stage but has softer GPA requirements. You can draw conclusions from there if you'd like, but that's one of the only pieces of hard data available that may speak to different cultures (I do not think it's fair to say everyone who had a DPW offer also had an S&C offer...)

I would say our workloads have been nearly identical (long unpredictable hours, we both do corporate). We've seen passive aggression at DPW and we've seen harshness at S&C. We've worked for MS and for Goldman. One of us is in the financial district and the other is in midtown. We both struggle with the stress and hours and spend time thinking about greener pastures, so don't for a second think you'll have more time to yourself one place or the other. Basically, I don't know that we have much more to add than what gets thrown around all the time.

Nothing should influence this decision more than the impression YOU got from the people you spoke with. A second visit may be a perfect way to narrow that down, let you meet with associates on your level, and ask more penetrating questions. If the polite/passive aggressive thing seems like a load of crap, DPW associates seem stuffy, and you clicked with the people you met at S&C (be they hard-charging type A or otherwise) then you should go to S&C . If you felt comfortable chatting with DPW people but got a cold/harsh vibe from the S&C folks, you should go to DPW.

You might not be able to accurately and shortly describe the differences between the two firms, but at the end of the day there's something different about them and pools of people self select between them in somewhat predictable ways.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KaNa1986
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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby KaNa1986 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:One of my closest law school friends and I wound up at these two firms. The take in this thread seems a little koolaide induced, but there's a kernel of truth - S&C has, and has had for a very long time, a reputation for a harsh and uncaring culture while DPW has had one for niceness and/or passive aggression. Like all generalizations, you will find exceptions and individuals who either fit the description to a T or don't fit it at all.

The data suggests S&C gives offers to almost everyone they call back and care a lot about grades, no matter what school you came from. DPW is often especially selective at the callback stage but has softer GPA requirements. You can draw conclusions from there if you'd like, but that's one of the only pieces of hard data available that may speak to different cultures (I do not think it's fair to say everyone who had a DPW offer also had an S&C offer...)

I would say our workloads have been nearly identical (long unpredictable hours, we both do corporate). We've seen passive aggression at DPW and we've seen harshness at S&C. We've worked for MS and for Goldman. One of us is in the financial district and the other is in midtown. We both struggle with the stress and hours and spend time thinking about greener pastures, so don't for a second think you'll have more time to yourself one place or the other. Basically, I don't know that we have much more to add than what gets thrown around all the time.

Nothing should influence this decision more than the impression YOU got from the people you spoke with. A second visit may be a perfect way to narrow that down, let you meet with associates on your level, and ask more penetrating questions. If the polite/passive aggressive thing seems like a load of crap, DPW associates seem stuffy, and you clicked with the people you met at S&C (be they hard-charging type A or otherwise) then you should go to DPW. If you felt comfortable chatting with DPW people but got a cold/harsh vibe from the S&C folks, you should go to DPW.

You might not be able to accurately and shortly describe the differences between the two firms, but at the end of the day there's something different about them and pools of people self select between them in somewhat predictable ways.


We get it. You work at DPW and is implicitly biased in favor of DPW.

Anonymous User
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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:53 pm

Sorry, typo :lol:

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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:00 pm

And is there any reason to think SC has better exit options?

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Re: Decide For Me: DPW v. S&C

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I don't mean to thread jack, but since we have a DPW associate here, I'm curious if you have any tips for the callback process. Definitely interested in the firm for many of the reasons you identified and the quality of work obviously and want to do whatever I can to increase my odds at an offer.


I have interviewed for DPW at both the screener and callback stage. Basically the tips are the same for every firm:

show a lot of energy and enthusiasm
try to show some analytic ability but keep it to non-controversial topics
know your audience - interviewing with a partner is different than with an associate
make sure everyone likes you because one bad review can sink you
do the lunch portion and make sure you act normal. Don't let your guard down though, the lunch is part of the interview.




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