Irell v. Munger Forum

[Anonymous User]

Is there any big difference between these firms in terms of exit options? If someone is indifferent in terms of the work the two firms do, is it ok to just choose based on culture or is one a lot better/prestigious than the other?

[Anonymous User]

Munger is more selective than Irell. More people at Munger make partner, though still not a lot. Munger is downtown. Munger has an SF office. Irell does a lot of patent lit (which can mean the chance to exit into tech companies). Irell tends to be more lavish. It seems that hours at Irell > hours at Munger, though not entirely sure by how much. Irell is in CC. Irell has an Orange County office.

Munger might be perceived (especially by law students) as more "prestigious" because it is more selective.My opinion is that they are fairly close and other than culture I would consider their work to be an important factor. Even if you are not sure what type of lit you want to do, the fact that Irell does so much patent lit is an enormous factor imo.

[Anonymous User]

Munger is more selective than Irell. More people at Munger make partner, though still not a lot. Munger is downtown. Munger has an SF office. Irell does a lot of patent lit (which can mean the chance to exit into tech companies). Irell tends to be more lavish. It seems that hours at Irell > hours at Munger, though not entirely sure by how much. Irell is in CC. Irell has an Orange County office.

Munger might be perceived (especially by law students) as more "prestigious" because it is more selective.My opinion is that they are fairly close and other than culture I would consider their work to be an important factor. Even if you are not sure what type of lit you want to do, the fact that Irell does so much patent lit is an enormous factor imo.

For someone who isn't sure what they want to do after firm life, is there one right answer here? I have no predilection for patent law but it does seem pretty interesting. I don't think they require people to have a background in order to work on those cases but I may be mistaken about that.

What kind of lit is Munger known for? Just commercial?

[anonymous2012]

Munger --> Academia is a pretty defined route.

[Anonymous User]

Munger --> Academia is a pretty defined route.

Sort of a chicken and egg problem though, right?

Munger hires people from top schools with very high grades, lots of whom are also on law review, etc.

People from top schools with very high grades, law review, etc, are likelier than the average law student to want to go the academia route and to be able to do so successfully.

[Anonymous User]

Munger --> Academia is a pretty defined route.

Sort of a chicken and egg problem though, right?

Munger hires people from top schools with very high grades, lots of whom are also on law review, etc.

People from top schools with very high grades, law review, etc, are likelier than the average law student to want to go the academia route and to be able to do so successfully.

Irell also hires students with high grades & LR as well, right? So if more Munger alum are going into academia, maybe it's self-selection because of that kind of culture at Munger? Maybe Irell is more for people into trial work?

[Anonymous User]

Munger --> Academia is a pretty defined route.

Sort of a chicken and egg problem though, right?

Munger hires people from top schools with very high grades, lots of whom are also on law review, etc.

People from top schools with very high grades, law review, etc, are likelier than the average law student to want to go the academia route and to be able to do so successfully.

Irell also hires students with high grades & LR as well, right? So if more Munger alum are going into academia, maybe it's self-selection because of that kind of culture at Munger? Maybe Irell is more for people into trial work?

Certainly not impossible. It'd just be a relatively bad reason to choose between the two.

[Anonymous User]

OP, have you heard back from munger post-CB?

[Anonymous User]

OP, have you heard back from munger post-CB?

CB in two weeks several days before Irell deadline so if I get it, I'll need to make a decision quickly.

How did your CB go? Any tips?

[Anonymous User]

Really great, smart people. I was asked more substantive questions than in other callbacks (for example, to explain a legal concept I found interesting). Appearing intellectually engaged is always a plus, I think.

edit: also, you will probably need an extension on your irell deadline. MTO votes as a whole firm on extending offers, so they take forever.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to bump this thread - but I'm also choosing between an Irell/Munger offer.

Is anyone else concerned about Munger's historic no-offering? From what I can tell, usually it's 1-2 people. In a summer class of 20-24, that seems sort of terrifying. I have an inclination to take Irell to avoid that. Am I being crazy?

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to bump this thread - but I'm also choosing between an Irell/Munger offer.

Is anyone else concerned about Munger's historic no-offering? From what I can tell, usually it's 1-2 people. In a summer class of 20-24, that seems sort of terrifying. I have an inclination to take Irell to avoid that. Am I being crazy?

I've heard that it happens because Munger takes SA work product/writing ability very seriously and they no offer people who don't meet their high expectations. That said, most people with Munger SAs likely have the stats for and are gunning for a clerkship and will likely be fine because of that.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to bump this thread - but I'm also choosing between an Irell/Munger offer.

Is anyone else concerned about Munger's historic no-offering? From what I can tell, usually it's 1-2 people. In a summer class of 20-24, that seems sort of terrifying. I have an inclination to take Irell to avoid that. Am I being crazy?

I've heard that it happens because Munger takes SA work product/writing ability very seriously and they no offer people who don't meet their high expectations. That said, most people with Munger SAs likely have the stats for and are gunning for a clerkship and will likely be fine because of that.

And I currently do, but I have to pick a firm before I have a single 2L grade. What if they slip? Munger no-offer --> DC Clerkship does not seem to me like a guaranteed job.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to bump this thread - but I'm also choosing between an Irell/Munger offer.

Is anyone else concerned about Munger's historic no-offering? From what I can tell, usually it's 1-2 people. In a summer class of 20-24, that seems sort of terrifying. I have an inclination to take Irell to avoid that. Am I being crazy?

I've heard that it happens because Munger takes SA work product/writing ability very seriously and they no offer people who don't meet their high expectations. That said, most people with Munger SAs likely have the stats for and are gunning for a clerkship and will likely be fine because of that.

Munger expects to offer all of its summers. Last summer all 20 2Ls were given offers. There is no expectation that the bottom 1-2 will not be offered or anything like that. But yes, there is a high emphasis on work product. For each bigger assignment, you will generally have an evaluation done though soon after you turn in the memo. So you do get feedback and will have a good sense of where you stand. I don't think the chance of getting no-offered at Munger is significantly worse than being no-offered at any other comparable litigation firm unless you are a terrible writer. Boies, Gibson Dunn, Mofo, etc. all no offer a few people each summer. Munger is also fairly generous about letting you split with other firms, which many people take advantage of. So if that's an issue, you can always try to hedge your bet. I don't think you can split between MTO and Irell though because both require you to do the first half with them.

In terms of deciding between Irell and Munger, I'd choose the one you fit in better. They're pretty comparable firms. Irell has a little bit better compensation (better, generally above market raises); whereas Munger has a little bit better hours. I think you will get early substantive experience at both. From what it seems, Irell appears to be more culturally like a biglaw firm (growing in size, hours requirements, compensation, extremely lavish summer program), whereas Munger still appears to be a bit more boutiquey (boasts about 1:1 ratio).

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to bump this thread - but I'm also choosing between an Irell/Munger offer.

Is anyone else concerned about Munger's historic no-offering? From what I can tell, usually it's 1-2 people. In a summer class of 20-24, that seems sort of terrifying. I have an inclination to take Irell to avoid that. Am I being crazy?

I've heard that it happens because Munger takes SA work product/writing ability very seriously and they no offer people who don't meet their high expectations. That said, most people with Munger SAs likely have the stats for and are gunning for a clerkship and will likely be fine because of that.

Munger expects to offer all of its summers. Last summer all 20 2Ls were given offers. There is no expectation that the bottom 1-2 will not be offered or anything like that. But yes, there is a high emphasis on work product. For each bigger assignment, you will generally have an evaluation done though soon after you turn in the memo. So you do get feedback and will have a good sense of where you stand. I don't think the chance of getting no-offered at Munger is significantly worse than being no-offered at any other comparable litigation firm unless you are a terrible writer. Boies, Gibson Dunn, Mofo, etc. all no offer a few people each summer. Munger is also fairly generous about letting you split with other firms, which many people take advantage of. So if that's an issue, you can always try to hedge your bet. I don't think you can split between MTO and Irell though because both require you to do the first half with them.

In terms of deciding between Irell and Munger, I'd choose the one you fit in better. They're pretty comparable firms. Irell has a little bit better compensation (better, generally above market raises); whereas Munger has a little bit better hours. I think you will get early substantive experience at both. From what it seems, Irell appears to be more culturally like a biglaw firm (growing in size, hours requirements, compensation, extremely lavish summer program), whereas Munger still appears to be a bit more boutiquey (boasts about 1:1 ratio).

I think "expects to offer all of its summers" is putting it too strongly. MTO's policy is better phrased as "has enough space to offer all of its summers." Feedback also isn't as comprehensive as the above poster suggests (it varies by partner/associate) and nobody leaves the office certain that they will receive an offer. That being said, it's a great place to work and they give their summer associates substantive and intellectually challenging assignments. I would suggest splitting with a 100% offer firm, if only for the peace of mind.

Most of the salient MTO/Irell distinctions have been mentioned, but don't underestimate the difference between working downtown and working in century city.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to bump this thread - but I'm also choosing between an Irell/Munger offer.

Sorry to highjack, but what was your CB -> offer turnaround time at Munger? I know there are other threads about this, but none from this year. Also congrats! Are you considering "second looking" both of them?

[Anonymous User]

Go for the fit. Can't go wrong here.

[Anonymous User]

Go for the fit. Can't go wrong here.

Munger is more prestigious than Irell, has reportedly better hours, and has a more diversified business (both in terms of practice areas and clients, and in terms of partners bringing in business). Irell is tops in its specialization.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to bump this thread - but I'm also choosing between an Irell/Munger offer.

Sorry to highjack, but what was your CB -> offer turnaround time at Munger? I know there are other threads about this, but none from this year. Also congrats! Are you considering "second looking" both of them?

Mine was about 2 weeks.

[Anonymous User]

Go for the fit. Can't go wrong here.

Munger is more prestigious than Irell, has reportedly better hours, and has a more diversified business (both in terms of practice areas and clients, and in terms of partners bringing in business). Irell is tops in its specialization.

From my experience with second looks at both of these places, these are marginal differences. Sure Munger is slightly more prestigious than Irell but that's not something you should be using to make your decision. "Better hours" is heavily dependent on what you're working on. I had a Munger associate tell me that there may be fewer billing hours but more "firm" hours, meaning that you're doing a lot more firm-related things that take up time. Some people are cool with that, some aren't.

I agree with the OP here in that people should go for the fit. They have different cultures and locations (CC v. Downtown).