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Anonymous User
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Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:33 am

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:28 am

What do you mean when you say "lower ranked"? Are you talking about Vault ranking? Why are you interested in Quinn? Are you interested in IP litigation?

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hephaestus
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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby hephaestus » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:33 am

Quinn associates I talked to reported awful hours, but no more awful than their peer litigation firms.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:48 am

ImNoScar wrote:Quinn associates I talked to reported awful hours, but no more awful than their peer litigation firms.


I know several firms that have much lower hours on average in their litigation departments than Quinn. Quinn is definitely not an outlier, but they are certainly higher than many firms that have billable expectations below or at 2000 hours.

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Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:28 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

NYstate
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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby NYstate » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:31 pm

Go for the people you want. Big law New York experience is valuable. You will be working hard at Wilkie as well. If you are worried about Quinn, you should listen to your instincts.

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IAFG
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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby IAFG » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:33 pm

I guess in your shoes I would summer at Quinn then try to trade that for a saner firm, IF after summering you think that's necessary.

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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby NYstate » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:46 pm

IAFG wrote:I guess in your shoes I would summer at Quinn then try to trade that for a saner firm, IF after summering you think that's necessary.


Because Quinn has the work he wants? That makes sense too. (But he might not be able to find something else, or at least can't count on it.). Do both firms offer 100%?
My first comment I was thinking in terms of permanent offers though, not SAs.

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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:48 pm

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IAFG
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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby IAFG » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:49 pm

NYstate wrote:
IAFG wrote:I guess in your shoes I would summer at Quinn then try to trade that for a saner firm, IF after summering you think that's necessary.


Because Quinn has the work he wants? That makes sense too. (But he might not be able to find something else, or at least can't count on it.). Do both firms offer 100%?
My first comment I was thinking in terms of permanent offers though, not SAs.

I don't think trading up or laterally from Quinn will be too terribly hard, assuming offer.

NYstate
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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby NYstate » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
NYstate wrote:Go for the people you want. Big law New York experience is valuable. You will be working hard at Wilkie as well. If you are worried about Quinn, you should listen to your instincts.


I don't want to overstate things too much. I've really liked everyone I've met at Quinn. I really like that people work hard but seem less pretentious than some places. But, there's so much negativity out there about Quinn that it makes me apprehensive.

Willkie has less of a reputation so doubt doesn't creep in the same way, I guess.

Do both firms offer 100%?


I'm not totally certain. I think Quinn no-offered some people several years back (like after the Lehman collapse) but I don't think they have done so recently. I know that Willkie has had a solid 100% offer rate for a number of years.


I think a lot of people just don't like Quinn, but you have to make your own decision on fit. Some people thrive there.

NYstate
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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby NYstate » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:56 pm

IAFG wrote:
NYstate wrote:
IAFG wrote:I guess in your shoes I would summer at Quinn then try to trade that for a saner firm, IF after summering you think that's necessary.


Because Quinn has the work he wants? That makes sense too. (But he might not be able to find something else, or at least can't count on it.). Do both firms offer 100%?
My first comment I was thinking in terms of permanent offers though, not SAs.

I don't think trading up or laterally from Quinn will be too terribly hard, assuming offer.


Yeah, probably true. 3L hiring is hard to tell but the Quinn name is definitely going to help with finding another job if he wants to leave. Just don't let the firm know you are unhappy if you are because you need to get the offer.

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IAFG
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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby IAFG » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:05 pm

3L hiring is pretty different with an offer.

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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:06 pm

IAFG wrote:3L hiring is pretty different with an offer.


I know this thread is about Quinn, but what if you go into 3L OCI with an offer from a firm like Baker & McKenzie or DLA Piper?

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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:3L hiring is pretty different with an offer.


I know this thread is about Quinn, but what if you go into 3L OCI with an offer from a firm like Baker & McKenzie or DLA Piper?

3L hiring with Quinn grades is totally different than hiring with DLA Piper grades. Obviously crushing it 2L will change things some

NYstate
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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby NYstate » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:10 pm

IAFG wrote:3L hiring is pretty different with an offer.

True. But I was thinking of that NALP stat from last year about only 82 3Ls getting jobs. I don't know how it is going this year. That stat could be outdated. It just depends if firms have room after their summer class.

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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:3L hiring is pretty different with an offer.


I know this thread is about Quinn, but what if you go into 3L OCI with an offer from a firm like Baker & McKenzie or DLA Piper?

3L hiring with Quinn grades is totally different than hiring with DLA Piper grades. Obviously crushing it 2L will change things some


Can you explain?

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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:3L hiring is pretty different with an offer.


I know this thread is about Quinn, but what if you go into 3L OCI with an offer from a firm like Baker & McKenzie or DLA Piper?

3L hiring with Quinn grades is totally different than hiring with DLA Piper grades. Obviously crushing it 2L will change things some


I'm the quoted anon. I was a transfer student who had perfect grades 1L year but didn't do well at OCI. DLA is one of my "best" options at this point... Hopefully I'll crush this year, too. Just wondering if I can trade up.

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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:3L hiring is pretty different with an offer.


I know this thread is about Quinn, but what if you go into 3L OCI with an offer from a firm like Baker & McKenzie or DLA Piper?

3L hiring with Quinn grades is totally different than hiring with DLA Piper grades. Obviously crushing it 2L will change things some


Can you explain?

people that have a shot at QE are more likely in the top of their class at a T14 or at least the top quarter at a T6, whereas DLA takes people with much lower grades. Well, those grades are still going to be highly relevant next year.

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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:45 pm

A good friend of mine was at a non-NYC office of QE and lasted less than 18 months. Believe me when I say you're asking the wrong question if you're asking about what the hours are. The work was constant. A better question would be how many non work hours do you get each week. I can't even imagine what NYC would be like.

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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:02 pm

If you are the kind of person that is concerned about hours and the possibility of having a life, Quinn would not be a great choice. I would say Quinn is in fact an outlier. Biglaw litigation is brutal anywhere, but Quinn has the most brutal hours of almost any firm in the country.

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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:44 pm

This is anecdotal, but it made an impression on me: I interviewed (and got an offer at) Quinn. The associates I met were pretty uniformly the most unenthusiastic and miserable people I met. Two went so far as to basically say it sucked and they were just going to collect a paycheck for as long as they could stand it then get out. This to me spoke volumes. I am sure there are miserable associates at every firm. But if you can't trot out 5-6 cheery ones for recruiting (or, at least, 5-6 people who will pretend to be cheery for recruiting purposes), then that seems pretty bad. Again, I didn't end up working there, so no firsthand experience.

The other thing I'd add is the complaint you hear about Quinn isn't just that the hours are long. It's also that they're pretty mercenary about hiring big-deal partners irrespective of personality. So there are a lot of partners who treat associates indifferently and / or badly. I'm sure there are many perfectly nice partners at Quinn who take an interest in associate development, but the point is there isn't as much of an effort to select people who fit into a nice "culture" as much as there is at other firms.

Long story short: You could not pay me enough money to go to Quinn, and I would pick Willkie over them in a heartbeat. But, I am also a random person on the internet, so take that advice for what it's worth.

Edit: I will say there are some people who thrive at Quinn. Just look at the culture and see if you fit in. Some firms' cultures can be summarized as "we're nice" (Debevoise), "we're quirky / interesting" (Cleary), or "work hard, play hard" (Weil). If I had to summarize Quinn's culture, it's "we win, no matter what." Frankly, that sounds terrible to me, but it gets some people going.

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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:51 pm

I'll be going there to SA this summer. At the moment, I embrace high hours and available work. I summered at a firm last summer where the associates had difficulty meeting 1900 hours. It was an insanely stressful environment, and when there was a new project the associates were like sharks fighting over chum.

At any big name firm like this, I think that you will find one of two things happening. Between your second and third year, you'll know if the hours, environment, people, and work are to your liking. If they are, you'll stick around for a few more years before getting up or outed (and from talking to people, at QE they will let you stick around as long as you want as long as you're billing, cause business has been so good. Grain of salt though). If you don't like it, you will have the sort of experience and brand name to lateral somewhere you like.

I can't talk about the "real culture" because I haven't worked there. Just realize, at v20 you are basically going to be living the same lifestyle. After that it is a culture preference for firms. And very few on these boards can tell you what the actual culture is or whether you will like it

Here is some more info BTW

http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2225079&forum_id=2:#23058615

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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This is anecdotal, but it made an impression on me: I interviewed (and got an offer at) Quinn. The associates I met were pretty uniformly the most unenthusiastic and miserable people I met. Two went so far as to basically say it sucked and they were just going to collect a paycheck for as long as they could stand it then get out. This to me spoke volumes. I am sure there are miserable associates at every firm. But if you can't trot out 5-6 cheery ones for recruiting (or, at least, 5-6 people who will pretend to be cheery for recruiting purposes), then that seems pretty bad. Again, I didn't end up working there, so no firsthand experience.

The other thing I'd add is the complaint you hear about Quinn isn't just that the hours are long. It's also that they're pretty mercenary about hiring big-deal partners irrespective of personality. So there are a lot of partners who treat associates indifferently and / or badly. I'm sure there are many perfectly nice partners at Quinn who take an interest in associate development, but the point is there isn't as much of an effort to select people who fit into a nice "culture" as much as there is at other firms.

Long story short: You could not pay me enough money to go to Quinn, and I would pick Willkie over them in a heartbeat. But, I am also a random person on the internet, so take that advice for what it's worth.

Edit: I will say there are some people who thrive at Quinn. Just look at the culture and see if you fit in. Some firms' cultures can be summarized as "we're nice" (Debevoise), "we're quirky / interesting" (Cleary), or "work hard, play hard" (Weil). If I had to summarize Quinn's culture, it's "we win, no matter what." Frankly, that sounds terrible to me, but it gets some people going.


Also curious about how hours at Quinn compare with the worst of the non-WLRK V10 sweatshops (i.e. Cravath/Skadden).

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Re: Just how bad is Quinn?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:12 pm

Also, what are the hours like in comparison to a firm like Boies?




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