Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

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Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:36 am

I don't want to go in to too many details because it might sort of out me, but so far I have done 6 CBs and have 0 offers (and won't be getting offers from any of these since they have made offers to people that CB'd after I did and some of these CBs were as much as 3 and 1/2 weeks ago). In screening interviews I have done fairly well, converting around half of the screening interviews to CBs. I have solid grades, nothing outstanding that would get me past a screener alone, but not out of the range of being an eligible candidate by any means.

I'm not really sure what, if anything, to do about this? I've done mock interviews and been told I am an excellent interviewer. My screener record seems to suggest that I am a solid interviewer. Any thoughts or suggestions?

rad lulz
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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby rad lulz » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:40 am

You haven't actually been rejected from any of those?

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:51 am

I feel sort of the same. I have 3 CB's left but so far I'm 0 for 2 after CB's after I thought I killed both interviews, so now I'm very unsure of myself. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong either is the worst part.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:52 am

rad lulz wrote:You haven't actually been rejected from any of those?

I've received rejections from 2 of the 6. 2 others are firms that are known for making offers within 24 hours (and it's now been more than 1 week for me since those). The other 2 are a bit slower to get back to me, but didn't go quite as well as some of those that I know I didn't get and are also more selective at the CB stage so i'd bet those are dings too.

I'm trying to get out ahead of this while I still have 4-6 CBs remaining to not screw up.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:54 am

Just brain storming:

1) Bad luck. Shit happens. Each CB is a coinflip, but sometimes you flip 6 tails in a row.

2) You had good enough grades to get Callbacks based grades alone, but your rotten personality ruins you at callbacks. You seem to suggest this isn't it, but what exactly are your grades.

3) You piss off some segment of the population, like women, ugly women, hipsters, bros, shitlibs, and if you screener isn't that group you are fine, but then you get sunk in a callback?

4) you are doing something different on callbacks that is alienating. Do adjust your strategy somehow? Are you not researching the firm well enough?

5) you are panicking a bit too early and you'll get an offer or two from these 6. 3.5 weeks ago is really, really early. How did you even get CB's that early? Did you interview at a special career fair (like IP or diversity?).

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Hobbes89
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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Hobbes89 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:04 am

I'll signal the above that the offers might be coming. But to be blunt - the only thing you can control now is your interviewing - you may in fact be an excellent interviewer, but there's always room for improvement. My suggestion is to try to talk to some people you trust who are not connected with any sort of OCS mock interview program. Friends/other folks you trust will be more candid, because they know they won't be hurting your feelings by trying to help.

rad lulz
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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby rad lulz » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
rad lulz wrote:You haven't actually been rejected from any of those?

I've received rejections from 2 of the 6. 2 others are firms that are known for making offers within 24 hours (and it's now been more than 1 week for me since those). The other 2 are a bit slower to get back to me, but didn't go quite as well as some of those that I know I didn't get and are also more selective at the CB stage so i'd bet those are dings too.

I'm trying to get out ahead of this while I still have 4-6 CBs remaining to not screw up.

If you're worried, get up on some mock interviews. People are terrible at assessing their own interviewing ability.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby NYstate » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:10 am

And go for more than one mock interview. There was someone in the vale thread who was making a statement that probably hurt him in interviews and no one picked up on it until he went back for more practice.

If you are wondering, the statement was something like " I went to law school because I was bored at my old job and it wasn't intellectually stimulating. So I went to law for the challenge."

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby rad lulz » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:59 am

NYstate wrote:And go for more than one mock interview. There was someone in the vale thread who was making a statement that probably hurt him in interviews and no one picked up on it until he went back for more practice.

If you are wondering, the statement was something like " I went to law school because I was bored at my old job and it wasn't intellectually stimulating. So I went to law for the challenge."

Good example of a statement that doesn't seem so bad at first blush but when you think about what lawyers actually do...

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:28 am

rad lulz wrote:
NYstate wrote:And go for more than one mock interview. There was someone in the vale thread who was making a statement that probably hurt him in interviews and no one picked up on it until he went back for more practice.

If you are wondering, the statement was something like " I went to law school because I was bored at my old job and it wasn't intellectually stimulating. So I went to law for the challenge."

Good example of a statement that doesn't seem so bad at first blush but when you think about what lawyers actually do...

Just be genuine. Had an interview recently where the candidate said, "I saw your bio and you are the most impressive attorney I'm seeing today." No I'm not; I'm a first year. Or "That's an amazing observation" when I asked a fairly obvious follow up to a resume bullet.

You didn't give enough detail to determine WHAT you might be doing wrong, but if you're trying too hard to impress/flatter that may be making BS flags go up.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:13 am

Desert Fox wrote:2) You had good enough grades to get Callbacks based grades alone, but your rotten personality ruins you at callbacks. You seem to suggest this isn't it, but what exactly are your grades.


I guess that was just bad wording. I meant that I don't have good enough grades to get CBs on grades alone.

Come to think of it, I have been saying something similar to that statement from "the vale" thread. Something to the effect of "I went to law school because I want to be intellectually challenged and work around smart people." OCS seemed to love that statement but if you guys say I should say something different, then I definitely will. Just not sure how else to answer that question? Obviously, "it was my only job option that had a starting salary in the six figures and I don't mind working long hours to get that because all i'd be doing is playing video games otherwise and besides, I got a huge scholarship" isn't gonna fly.

I'm being genuine. Every now and then I get someone that's like talking to a brick wall, but for the most part, i'm very genuine. Even with the brick wall people I think i'm pretty genuine.

EDIT: CBs are from a job fair that takes place early. The number of CBs I have remaining and my screener/CB conversion rate also includes the ones I got from on-campus interviewing.

2nd EDIT: DESERTFOX - I'm a little concerned about your point on me pissing off some random segment of the population. Not really sure how to figure that one out though. I have some political stuff on my resume, but I can't change that now.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby hoos89 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:39 pm

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Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:2) You had good enough grades to get Callbacks based grades alone, but your rotten personality ruins you at callbacks. You seem to suggest this isn't it, but what exactly are your grades.


I guess that was just bad wording. I meant that I don't have good enough grades to get CBs on grades alone.

Come to think of it, I have been saying something similar to that statement from "the vale" thread. Something to the effect of "I went to law school because I want to be intellectually challenged and work around smart people." OCS seemed to love that statement but if you guys say I should say something different, then I definitely will. Just not sure how else to answer that question? Obviously, "it was my only job option that had a starting salary in the six figures and I don't mind working long hours to get that because all i'd be doing is playing video games otherwise and besides, I got a huge scholarship" isn't gonna fly.

I'm being genuine. Every now and then I get someone that's like talking to a brick wall, but for the most part, i'm very genuine. Even with the brick wall people I think i'm pretty genuine.

EDIT: CBs are from a job fair that takes place early. The number of CBs I have remaining and my screener/CB conversion rate also includes the ones I got from on-campus interviewing.

2nd EDIT: DESERTFOX - I'm a little concerned about your point on me pissing off some random segment of the population. Not really sure how to figure that one out though. I have some political stuff on my resume, but I can't change that now.


How political?

I knew a guy that creeped women out. When he had a male screener he got a CB, but on CB's he'd get dinged for looking like a sex pest.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby alicrimson » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:51 pm

Sometimes how well you do in an interview does not dictate whether you get the job. Where there are smaller classes, there is more room for this. You could have knocked it out of the park, but someone with just as must charm and charisma as you happened to walk into the interview with a 4.0, was an all-american pole vaulter, de-wormed orphans in Somalia, and lived next door to the hiring partner as a child.

If you can get cb's, chances are you're a fine interviewer and candidate, but not the candidate for them. Or, alternatively, are you faking a persona going into screeners that you aren't able to maintain through longer cbs? Have you done enough research and thought about the firm and why you are actually interested in it (I want a job and you offer jobs isn't good enough sadly...I wish it were)?


Also, 3.5 weeks might not be a long wait if they are a big national firm and you are looking at an office with 1-3 slots. Typically, those firms have a ton of choices as far as candidates, so they don't make knee jerk decisions in the hiring process. They want to see them all. I know I had several firms that fit this profile when I was doing OCI, and some did not get back to me for nearly a monthish.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:41 pm

OP, I feel you.

I feel like I'm in the same boat...

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby NYstate » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:58 pm

Comments on why that "vale" comment was a problem:
1. Negative stuff about old job - never say anything negative

2. Being bored - a lot of law for low level associates might be tedious

3. Intellectual challenge- again bad look at old job and also not everything in law is intellectually challenging.

I would find something else to say about why law that is a little more specific and also plays up your strengths. It depends on the person. Just saying you are looking for an intellectual challenge is pretty mundane but it shouldn't hurt you.

Also a screener is easy to charm a person for 20 minutes but at a callback some people might not be impressed.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:11 pm

I'm afraid that I may fall under this category. I did fairly well in OCI, snagging 5+ CBs (but less than 10) at just slightly above median T14 grades, no LR, and no relevant WE. One of CBs also included a pretty big reach for me, so I felt great about getting that.

But I've done almost all of my CBs now, and I've got one official ding, one very likely ding, and possibly one more on the way (it will be a week tomorrow).

I've mainly done the same thing that I did during screeners. Is that just not good enough anymore?

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:23 pm

Checking in. Same boat. Almost ten cb's, one offer, and several rejections. Still waiting on a few, but it's a little discouraging. Having said that, it's great to have an offer and I do genuinely like the firm I have one from.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:32 pm

NYstate wrote:Comments on why that "vale" comment was a problem:
1. Negative stuff about old job - never say anything negative

2. Being bored - a lot of law for low level associates might be tedious

3. Intellectual challenge- again bad look at old job and also not everything in law is intellectually challenging


I've seen this before and I haven't found it to be the case. I've told every person i interviewed with I worked at a start-up that i quit because it wasn't going to get off the ground (partially a result of the CEOs unfamiliarity with the space). I have 14 callbacks, good grades but not not law review, not urm at lower T14.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby hoos89 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:35 pm

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Gorki » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Checking in. Same boat. Almost ten cb's, one offer, and several rejections. Still waiting on a few, but it's a little discouraging. Having said that, it's great to have an offer and I do genuinely like the firm I have one from.


Oh jeez christ. This brag ain't even humble.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:35 pm

Feel like I'm in same boat. Was able to get 6 CB's median-ish (maybe little below but not by much) at a T6. I've done 5 so far, 2 dings, waiting to hear from 3... I don't think I'm doing anything different. I have noticed that one interviewer is always weaker than the other 3 during CB's for various reasons (some people are just hard to make small talk with), I don't know how much effect that has.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Icculus » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:43 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Checking in. Same boat. Almost ten cb's, one offer, and several rejections. Still waiting on a few, but it's a little discouraging. Having said that, it's great to have an offer and I do genuinely like the firm I have one from.


You're just not allowed to be discouraged if you have an offer. Sorry.


Gorki wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Checking in. Same boat. Almost ten cb's, one offer, and several rejections. Still waiting on a few, but it's a little discouraging. Having said that, it's great to have an offer and I do genuinely like the firm I have one from.


Oh jeez christ. This brag ain't even humble.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:01 pm

Icculus wrote:
hoos89 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Checking in. Same boat. Almost ten cb's, one offer, and several rejections. Still waiting on a few, but it's a little discouraging. Having said that, it's great to have an offer and I do genuinely like the firm I have one from.


You're just not allowed to be discouraged if you have an offer. Sorry.


Gorki wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Checking in. Same boat. Almost ten cb's, one offer, and several rejections. Still waiting on a few, but it's a little discouraging. Having said that, it's great to have an offer and I do genuinely like the firm I have one from.


Oh jeez christ. This brag ain't even humble.


Eh, yes you are. As thesealocust pointed out to a poster like you in the "choosing between Cravath/SullCrom" thread, this is a forum for people looking to achieve the highest level of academic and professional success. If you have the credentials for a V10 and feel like that's what you want and it would be best for your career/professional development and exit options, you have every right to want it and be a little disappointed if you don't get it. Also, how is that a brag? I have an offer at a Vault firm- I didn't say I'm really bummed with my V10 because I wanted V5.

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Re: Blowing CBs but solid in screeners?

Postby Icculus » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Icculus wrote:
hoos89 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Checking in. Same boat. Almost ten cb's, one offer, and several rejections. Still waiting on a few, but it's a little discouraging. Having said that, it's great to have an offer and I do genuinely like the firm I have one from.


You're just not allowed to be discouraged if you have an offer. Sorry.


Gorki wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Checking in. Same boat. Almost ten cb's, one offer, and several rejections. Still waiting on a few, but it's a little discouraging. Having said that, it's great to have an offer and I do genuinely like the firm I have one from.


Oh jeez christ. This brag ain't even humble.


Eh, yes you are. As thesealocust pointed out to a poster like you in the "choosing between Cravath/SullCrom" thread, this is a forum for people looking to achieve the highest level of academic and professional success. If you have the credentials for a V10 and feel like that's what you want and it would be best for your career/professional development and exit options, you have every right to want it and be a little disappointed if you don't get it. Also, how is that a brag? I have an offer at a Vault firm- I didn't say I'm really bummed with my V10 because I wanted V5.


There is a difference between being in a thread specifically dedicated to a question about what law firm to choose versus a thread in which people with 0 offers are trying to figure out if there is a need to change strategies. As has been pointed out in many threads, most people end up with only one offer. To come in and complain when others here have zero is bullshit. You do not feel the same as OP because at the end of the day you will be employed.




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