Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

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Anonymous User
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:55 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How do you word an email to a recruiter after you didn't get a firm at OCI through bidding?


I'm the above anon that has basically turned into a stalker following pre-select dings. I have actually been calling firms mostly and explaining that I am still very interested and unfortunately didn't get an interview. Then I explain that I would like to submit my application materials directly for further review. They generally give me a recruiting email and I say something like "unfortunately I was not selected through Diploma Mill U's OCI but I am still interested in FIRM due to REASON." then I will say I spoke to X person in legal recruiting this morning and would like to submit my materials directly.

Doing this has added (now) 3 extra interviews.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:27 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How do you word an email to a recruiter after you didn't get a firm at OCI through bidding?


Sending 20ish moderately generic emails has netted me exactly 0 responses.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How do you word an email to a recruiter after you didn't get a firm at OCI through bidding?


Sending 20ish moderately generic emails has netted me exactly 0 responses.


Same here. I've sent out maybe 30-40ish and gotten nothing. At best I got 2-3 "please apply through the portal," one outright ding, and one our NYC office is not hiring.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:09 pm

it is NEVER too late to mass mail. Nor is it EVER inappropriate to send a follow up email if you haven't heard back after a week or so. After a week of silence from 7 firms, I blasted them all again, expecting to hear back nothing, and got a screener at one of them.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:36 am

Should I be expecting dings by mail? I'm not sure if either I haven't heard anything from most of my mass mailing or if I have a pile of unread ding mail waiting for me. I'm not in the U.S. for the summer and had to include an address on my resume that won't be valid until Monday - I let the firms know that I am abroad this summer though. I'm trying to decide if I should follow up now, or wait until I move into my new place to see if I got dings (assuming my residence even saved my mail for me).

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:17 pm

I started emailing 100+ New York firms three weeks ago and finished over a week ago. Only three dings so far (expecting many many more). The rest is radio silence. The wait is painful.

w7ldcard
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby w7ldcard » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Should I be expecting dings by mail? I'm not sure if either I haven't heard anything from most of my mass mailing or if I have a pile of unread ding mail waiting for me. I'm not in the U.S. for the summer and had to include an address on my resume that won't be valid until Monday - I let the firms know that I am abroad this summer though. I'm trying to decide if I should follow up now, or wait until I move into my new place to see if I got dings (assuming my residence even saved my mail for me).

I have received only 2/8 of my dings through snail mail

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Kratos
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Kratos » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I started emailing 100+ New York firms three weeks ago and finished over a week ago. Only three dings so far (expecting many many more). The rest is radio silence. The wait is painful.

you could stop waiting and send out to other markets

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:34 am

I hate to say this, but how important are recruiting people? they are not even on the firm webpage, they dont even have their law degree. why would firms rely on their discretion at all?

I have a partner contact in a firm and he has emailed me that he will make sure they interview me. The recruiting person hates me: because I showed up at the reception but Im on the waitlist. so now that Im feeling like Ive been sabotaged by this person. I did apologize for it and tried to have a conversation with the person. nothing worked.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby pancakes3 » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:I hate to say this, but how important are recruiting people? they are not even on the firm webpage, they dont even have their law degree. why would firms rely on their discretion at all?

I have a partner contact in a firm and he has emailed me that he will make sure they interview me. The recruiting person hates me: because I showed up at the reception but Im on the waitlist. so now that Im feeling like Ive been sabotaged by this person. I did apologize for it and tried to have a conversation with the person. nothing worked.


You sound chill.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby star fox » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I hate to say this, but how important are recruiting people? they are not even on the firm webpage, they dont even have their law degree. why would firms rely on their discretion at all?

I have a partner contact in a firm and he has emailed me that he will make sure they interview me. The recruiting person hates me: because I showed up at the reception but Im on the waitlist. so now that Im feeling like Ive been sabotaged by this person. I did apologize for it and tried to have a conversation with the person. nothing worked.

They rely on their discretion because they are specifically trained in getting potential job candidates in touch with those who make the final decisions on hiring and have experience in knowing what to look for. This gives the lawyers more time to focus on law while someone else handles the logistics of getting new lawyers and staff. Sounds like you overlooked an important person in the process of getting hired because you deemed them irrelevant. Hopefully it doesn't cost you an opportunity but if it does you should learn from it.

A recruitment coordinator works closely with job candidates, external recruiters, headhunters and other human resources professionals in support of a business’ hiring needs. They typically manage the flow of candidates thorough the recruitment process, from scheduling interviews to bringing new employees on board.

These human resources specialists may also conduct testing, screening and preliminary interviewing of potential employees. Often, recruitment coordinators arrange travel for job candidates and act as a liaison between the company and the candidate.

Representing their employers at job fairs, recruiting events and open houses is another responsibility of recruitment coordinators. They may prepare information packets and gather qualified job seekers’ contact information. Many are required to use specialized software to track applicants.

Recruitment coordinators often participate in HR department meetings and assist in writing job postings and employment ads. Some serve as backup to a corporate recruiter. These specialists may also interact with department heads, and other managers and staff to coordinate the recruitment and hiring of new employees.

http://www.floridatechonline.com/resour ... cOFMflVi-0

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Desert Fox
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helpappreciated
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby helpappreciated » Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:22 pm

When a firm asks which office you're interested in (in a response email to a mass mail), should you give them a list of preferences or just give them one office?

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Desert Fox
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Ron Howard » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:26 pm

Evening bump

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I hate to say this, but how important are recruiting people? they are not even on the firm webpage, they dont even have their law degree. why would firms rely on their discretion at all?

I have a partner contact in a firm and he has emailed me that he will make sure they interview me. The recruiting person hates me: because I showed up at the reception but Im on the waitlist. so now that Im feeling like Ive been sabotaged by this person. I did apologize for it and tried to have a conversation with the person. nothing worked.

rcsrassociate wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:What's the worst advice you've seen here?


For some reason, there is this attitude on TLS that the recruiters don't matter and their opinions don't get taken into account. Obviously, I can't speak to other firms, but our recruiters' interactions with candidates (and opinions they form from those interactions) are a crucial piece of deciding whether or not to give someone a callback (or to give them an offer if they've been to the office for a callback). You shouldn't treat recruiters any differently than you would treat an attorney interviewing you (and you should probably do your best to treat them better - someone attorneys may get busy and give you a one to two sentence evaluation - the recruiter is always going to be in the room when the offer decision is being made).

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:41 pm

"How important is the one person who is guaranteed to look at my application, anyway?"

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Foghornleghorn » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:54 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:For some reason, there is this attitude on TLS that the recruiters don't matter and their opinions don't get taken into account. Obviously, I can't speak to other firms, but our recruiters' interactions with candidates (and opinions they form from those interactions) are a crucial piece of deciding whether or not to give someone a callback (or to give them an offer if they've been to the office for a callback). You shouldn't treat recruiters any differently than you would treat an attorney interviewing you (and you should probably do your best to treat them better - someone attorneys may get busy and give you a one to two sentence evaluation - the recruiter is always going to be in the room when the offer decision is being made).


This. I participated in OTIP yesterday and made small talk with a recruiter before an interview. Right as I walked in, she informed me that I was the only person that had acknowledged her existence the whole day. Received a CB this morning.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:19 pm

Getting nervous. Sent out 400 MM so far and only heard back from around 50 with rejections. Median at a T2.

personofinterest
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby personofinterest » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:27 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:"How important is the one person who is guaranteed to look at my application, anyway?"


hahaha. well said.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:41 pm

Don't be a dick, he MM'ed. Its not like he isn't trying to hustle

Traynor Brah
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Traynor Brah » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:21 pm

Ok I think I really nailed this mass mail thing down so I thought I'd contribute to the (wealth) of knowledge in this thread. I did a small campaign, hitting about 50 random nyc firms, and got five cbs out of it. I have good stats but not like incredible stats so I think my mailing tactics might have had something to do with it. I also have a bit of experience in email marketing so I'll share a few things that are kind of basic there but I havent really seen itt.

First thing I would advise: download an email tracking app. These will put a pixel into your emails that notifies you when the email is opened (and the good ones will tell you when it's forwarded or when an attachment is open, but few of these are free). Yesware is a good, easy, free program.

This is crucial for any campaign. If nobody opened your email after a week (which happens at a majority of firms that put out catch-all addresses, in my experience) that gives you license to hit up an individual. If someone opened your email but didn't open it again, forward it, or contact you for a period of time, that gives you license to try again with someone else at the firm. I hit up the nalp/firm website contact first. Failing that, one way or another, I hit up every recruiter I could find that was employed there. (I think it is important and a sign of respect to the process to start with this, but whatever, you need a job). Following that, I did practice group leaders and hiring partners (one by one). I got two cbs by getting to the third rung. I don't think hitting up associates who went to your undergrad/law school is fruitful by comparison, but by all means try if everything else fails and you really care about the firm. If you are not tracking, it is guesswork as to if you were noticed, and if you were noticed and still applied up the chain, it's not a good look.

Programs like yesware will also allow you to send the email at specific times of day. Do not underestimate the importance of timing in an email campaign. Aim for half an hour after an attorney or recruiter, respectively, generally gets into work or has completed lunch, and are thus groggy and has just caught up on email. If you're getting in when they're not at inbox zero, you're more likely to get glossed over. Get them when they're in zombie mode and just got rid of their mess of unreads, in other words.

Maybe not relevant for this cycle, but circumventing the oci process and reaching out to recruiters by saying you will be in town early and want to come in for an interview then instead of waiting for oci (because it is a top choice firm!) also got me a direct to cb cb. Works out for both parties; they don't have to pay for you to take a cb, and they get an extra screener slot at oci. Make sure to use a school specific and thorough subject line to make it seem like you'll be asking something logistical about oci.

Another thing for folks who might be a tad more on the risk-taking side of things: it is a classic spam email tactic to put "Re:" at the beginning of your subject line. It catches your eye because it looks like it's a response to an email you sent out. Luckily for you, you also picked a profession that uses "re:" in a way that doesn't sound like spam when your email subject line is "Re: Summer associate position". I didn't do this, but I was really tempted to, as it definitely works.

Some firms don't post email addresses for recruiters. It might not occur to people on how to get someone's email address, so just look at a partner's email address at that firm. Pretty much always going to follow the same pattern. But then a fair amount of firms don't post email addresses for anyone and require you to submit an inquiry through the website. Google "site:[firm website.com] mailto "@[firm website.com]" [specific contact's name]". You'll at least get the root pattern to work from. Short of that, eliminate the "site:" seach operator; it'll be out there somewhere.

Also keep your cover letters really really short. Nobody has time for that. You should be able read pretty much the whole thing without scrolling on your phone. Down to very basics. Don't bullshit anything or explain anything; be curt. You have their attention for five seconds tops, make it count and cut out the formalities. Among these formalities is stating the full firm name. They already know it. If you're mming skadden say skadden; don't waste that real estate with arps et al. Also among these formalities is the block of contact shit below your name. Don't use extra text anywhere. You already put your preferred contact info in the last sentence of your message and put your school in the first; don't repeat it. Your name will do. (And that sign off should also be the first place your name appears).

Also make sure your resume is the first attachment. That's what they care about; make sure it doesn't take an extra half second for them to get it. That can be the entire difference.

Also absolutely don't do anything that makes your email look like it was a mail merge or was an automated send off. Do the mail merge in word and copy and paste it over using notepad to clear the formatting (unless you have a lot of cash to burn on a pro program). Yeah its a bitch, but include the email address and subject line in your mail merge so you can get a really repetitive process that only requires two windows and alt-tab mastery. Won't take too long; we're not talking about sending 500 emails here. Should also go without saying but follow the one person, one email rule. Sending an email to two at one firm is sending it to zero, and bccing to multiple contacts is just as bad.

So that was kind of scattered and there are probably more specific things I can't think of at the moment, and my flight is about to land, but hopefully that helps someone.

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Manteca
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Manteca » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:39 pm

Gonna try that next week and see how it goes. Thanks for the awesome tips!

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby crumb cake » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:12 am

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