Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

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Anonymous User
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:47 pm

Druid wrote:The worst they can do is say no again.


True, but my concern is more about whether the earlier rejection would reflect poorly on me and cause them to reject me again when they are actually hiring for a position. I think I've worded it confusingly, but do you see what I'm getting at?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:51 pm

If they dinged you because they didn't have any openings, there's no reason they won't consider you again when they do. If they dinged you for some substantive reason, they'll still probably consider you again - depends on what the position is and the rest of the pool and who's reading the application, etc.

BigZuck
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:21 am

Started mass mailing last week, sent out about 40 or so so far and have received 1 straight up ding, 2 "we don't have SAs this year," and one screener.

This thread is awesome, appreciate DF and everyone else stressing how important it is to do this (and DZ for saying it's time to start this cycle!)

Also: tag

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sublime
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby sublime » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:07 am

..

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hoos89
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby hoos89 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:59 am

Most of the time firms will do a phone or skype screener if you don't go to school in the area and don't volunteer that you will be in the area on a certain date. If they ask you to fly out on your own dime (rare, but I did get one of those last year), it will most likely be a callback style interview, which will likely be worth it if you don't yet have an offer.

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bsktbll28082
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby bsktbll28082 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:25 am

About to start sending them this week. Do you think emailing the current region I am in with my new school on my resume (I'm transferring) would look weird? I like the area, just not the school.

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moonman157
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby moonman157 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:04 am

Just had a callback in a secondary market where I have strong ties, and stressed my desire to return to that city throughout my cover letter/interviews. Should I apply to that same firm in another market where I have ties? I would love to return to this city as well, but I'm worried that they might think that I'm not as committed to the other city as I said I was during my interviews. But on the other hand, it might show how badly I want to work at this firm (I really want to work at this firm). Any suggestions? Thanks so much!

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moonman157
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby moonman157 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:29 am

Also, if I do apply, should I acknowledge that I interviewed with the other office?

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hoos89
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby hoos89 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:40 am

bsktbll28082 wrote:About to start sending them this week. Do you think emailing the current region I am in with my new school on my resume (I'm transferring) would look weird? I like the area, just not the school.


I mean... You can't not put your new school on your resume.


To the poster above: I would wait until you her back from the callback before mailing other offices at the firm. Is it likely to have an effect? Probably not, but why risk a callback (and your sanity) for something with a very low hit rate.

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moonman157
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby moonman157 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:48 am

hoos89 wrote:
bsktbll28082 wrote:About to start sending them this week. Do you think emailing the current region I am in with my new school on my resume (I'm transferring) would look weird? I like the area, just not the school.


I mean... You can't not put your new school on your resume.


To the poster above: I would wait until you her back from the callback before mailing other offices at the firm. Is it likely to have an effect? Probably not, but why risk a callback (and your sanity) for something with a very low hit rate.


Thanks for the response. Do you think there is a way I could spin it to show my commitment to the firm, and not my indecisiveness in regards to the city? I would probably prefer to work in the city that I didn't interview at, but I have stronger ties at the city I did interview at, as well as stronger connections. If I do get an offer from the office I interviewed at, what do you think my options would be in regards to returning to the second office?

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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:24 pm

I posted this earlier, but did not have any responses. Might as well try here.

I am at a t30 with slightly above median grades. I am aware and prepared that I am likely going to strike out at OCI.

1. Since my schools median is low, should I mention on my resume that it is top 50 percent (I didn't do this on my oci resume) so that it is not misconstrued as being even worse than it is?
2. Email only? Put the cover letter in body of email or attachment or both? All one attachment? Include writing sample?
3. When applying to school's primary market, is it necessary to discuss ties?
4. Mass mail employers coming to OCI that I bid on? Mass mail employers coming to OCI that I did not bid on?

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soj
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby soj » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:I posted this earlier, but did not have any responses. Might as well try here.

I am at a t30 with slightly above median grades. I am aware and prepared that I am likely going to strike out at OCI.

1. Since my schools median is low, should I mention on my resume that it is top 50 percent (I didn't do this on my oci resume) so that it is not misconstrued as being even worse than it is?
2. Email only? Put the cover letter in body of email or attachment or both? All one attachment? Include writing sample?
3. When applying to school's primary market, is it necessary to discuss ties?
4. Mass mail employers coming to OCI that I bid on? Mass mail employers coming to OCI that I did not bid on?

1. not sure. i'm leaning yes.
2. yes. (duh, don't snail mail anything.) both (but preferably even shorter in the body--cut out middle paragraphs if necessary). yes. no.
3. YES.
4. yes. yes.

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soj
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby soj » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:52 am

moonman157 wrote:Thanks for the response. Do you think there is a way I could spin it to show my commitment to the firm, and not my indecisiveness in regards to the city? I would probably prefer to work in the city that I didn't interview at, but I have stronger ties at the city I did interview at, as well as stronger connections. If I do get an offer from the office I interviewed at, what do you think my options would be in regards to returning to the second office?

yes. depends on the firm and the offices. if you don't have any offers yet, i would focus on the office that seems most likely to give you an offer, and once you have that offer in hand, you can aggressively pursue any office of that firm that you'd prefer.

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soj
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby soj » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:54 am

sublime wrote:Anybody have any tips for massmailing an area you aren't going to be able to make it to for a screener?

Mainly would be two states I have ties to and the big markets.

yes, mass mail like you normally would with maximum enthusiasm and availability. don't get picky at this stage.

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soj
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby soj » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:59 am

why your excuses for not mass mailing today are full of shit:
soj wrote:i keep hearing all these snowflake excuses for why mass mailing doesn't apply to you, but all of these excuses are actually reasons you should be mass mailing to more firms in more markets with greater urgency. where's the killer instinct?

excuse: i'm targeting a small market.
so you should be mass mailing every firm in that market, plus firms in second, third, fourth, and fifth choice markets.

excuse: i want to end up in the same market as my so.
so you should be mass mailing firms in every conceivable market you and your so might end up.

excuse: i already have a summer job offer.
so you should be mass mailing every firm where you might conceivably accept an offer over the offer you have. is your offer from your very top choice firm? is no other firm even close?

excuse: i'm top 10% at hys.
are you only applying to s&c? you're probably still applying to some firms where you need to interview minimally well (and if you're applying to highly selective boutique firms, very well) to get an offer. some interview practice won't kill you, and interviewing is a great way of researching different firms, markets, and practice areas.

excuse: my grades are too low.
so you should be taking advantage of every opportunity. miracles happen.

excuse: i'm too busy to mass mail.
nope.

excuse: i'm too busy to do callbacks.
no. i'm pretty sure most firms let you take a personal day or at least a morning or afternoon with enough notice. if you're working in pi/gov, you're not being paid enough to be held hostage.

excuse: i'm happy at my 1l firm.
yeah, and water is wet. every unhappy associate was once a happy summer associate. doesn't mean you shouldn't even consider other opportunities, especially at this early stage in your career when there's literally no risk to doing so. people leave firms, and even as early as next summer, your favorite associates to work with might be gone and replaced by less pleasant people. have you already been offered a full-time position? some 1l summer positions don't even lead to 2l summer positions, let alone full-time offers. some firms require 1l summers to stay their full 2l summer to be eligible for an offer (i.e. a touchback would be insufficient). and if all that your firm requires is a touchback, shouldn't you be trying to find a firm to split with?

excuse: i'm going to mass mail next week.
nope. do it today.

excuse: i can't afford to travel.
weak. mass mails can lead directly to callbacks or phone screeners followed by callbacks. firms generally pay travel costs for callbacks. get the interview first and then decline if you must.

excuse: i'm only getting rejections, so what's the point?
mass mails are supposed to lead to rejections. speaking from personal experience, i got rejected by most firms i mass mailed, but i did get callbacks or other "are you still interested in our summer program?" emails from a good number of firms. but a lot of those emails came several months after i applied, long after i'd given up on those firms and accepted another offer. recruiters hold on to your applications and may contact you if near the end of the recruiting process they realize they overestimated yield.

excuse: im probably gonna do pi anyway.
probably?

excuse: I already mass mailed my home market.
there are other markets in the country.

Nyclawyer618
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Nyclawyer618 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:31 pm

.

Anonymous User
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:19 pm

Just sent out 316 email apps. Judging by the number of auto replies, it looks like I may have to apply online to at least thirty of those.

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lawhopeful10
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby lawhopeful10 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just sent out 316 email apps. Judging by the number of auto replies, it looks like I may have to apply online to at least thirty of those.

That is really impressive. Are you just doing the entire country. If I count my schools OCI list I'm at around 100 apps and it's getting harder to find new places to apply to.

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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:34 pm

Yeah I did pretty much every top legal market. NYC, Chicago, LA, Bay Area, Dallas, Houston, DC, Boston, Philadelphia/Wilmington. I may add a couple of secondary markets I have ties to later, but those aren't well covered by NALP. Also planning to send to every oci firm I don't get an interview with.

Also, I tried to make sure not to send more than one application to the same recruiter.

ETA: sent then at lunch. Already got an "are you planning on being in the area in the near future." I actually am. Awesome.

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ymmv
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby ymmv » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:14 pm

Just mailed out to practically every non-OCI-participating midsize/boutique on the east coast. Not sure if that was worth all the hours spent given the (probably zero) expected ROI, but whatever man, YOLO.

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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:39 pm

I am supplementing mass mailing with contacting alums at the firms I'm mailing for informational interviews. So far about half of these result in a request for me to pass my resume to them so they can forward it along. Does this have any impact or is it pretty standard? I am guessing the latter but I really have no idea.

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hoos89
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby hoos89 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:51 pm

I got several interviews this way last year. It won't result in an interview every time, but it should help you get from the big pile to the small pile. Also, is start just sending your resume in the initial e-mail "for their convenience.". Don't be afraid to contact partners, either. I had one just unilaterally schedule me an interview last year.

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bsktbll28082
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby bsktbll28082 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:38 pm

Starting my mailing! I know I should have started earlier. I feel good that I started at least in July tho.

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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:55 am

Is it worth sending a quick email to update firms on secondary journal placement? Or is that just drawing the firm's attention to the fact that you didn't make law review.

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bsktbll28082
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Re: Reminder: Stop reading tea leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby bsktbll28082 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it worth sending a quick email to update firms on secondary journal placement? Or is that just drawing the firm's attention to the fact that you didn't make law review.


Wondering this :roll:




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