Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

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Anonymous User
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:49 am

So I MM'd a secondary market a couple of weeks ago and haven't gotten anything but a few "apply through the website" emails. Following OCI I have now a callback there. I was thinking when I have the date scheduled I should send follow up emails that include a "this is when I will be in town" note. Is that credited?

Traynor Brah
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Traynor Brah » Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:So I MM'd a secondary market a couple of weeks ago and haven't gotten anything but a few "apply through the website" emails. Following OCI I have now a callback there. I was thinking when I have the date scheduled I should send follow up emails that include a "this is when I will be in town" note. Is that credited?

Yeah. Definitely worth a try.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:43 pm

I did that and scored several emails. Make it easy for them to bring you in.

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dusters
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby dusters » Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:48 pm

After striking out at OCI (0 CBs with median grades at a T14) I want to start mass mailing but don't know where to start. Is there a guide I can read? What am I supposed to include? I assume transcript and resume, but should I also include a cover letter and writing sample? Thanks.

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Desert Fox
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DFTHREAD

Postby Desert Fox » Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:00 pm

Image
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Yea All Right
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Yea All Right » Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:13 pm

dusters wrote:After striking out at OCI (0 CBs with median grades at a T14) I want to start mass mailing but don't know where to start. Is there a guide I can read? What am I supposed to include? I assume transcript and resume, but should I also include a cover letter and writing sample? Thanks.


Here's a guide on TLS: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=195818

Some people include their cover letter in the body of the email and then attach their resume and transcript as separate files, while others will include a short message in the body of the email and then attach their full cover letter, resume, and transcript

You should get to work immediately, good luck

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Traynor Brah » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:17 pm

dusters wrote:After striking out at OCI (0 CBs with median grades at a T14) I want to start mass mailing but don't know where to start. Is there a guide I can read? What am I supposed to include? I assume transcript and resume, but should I also include a cover letter and writing sample? Thanks.

Chin up bruh. Still time. Here are a few more tips.
I thought I'd contribute to the (wealth) of knowledge in this thread. I did a small campaign, hitting about 50 random nyc firms, and got five cbs out of it. I have good stats but not like incredible stats so I think my mailing tactics might have had something to do with it. I also have a bit of experience in email marketing so I'll share a few things that are kind of basic there but I havent really seen itt.

First thing I would advise: download an email tracking app. These will put a pixel into your emails that notifies you when the email is opened (and the good ones will tell you when it's forwarded or when an attachment is open, but few of these are free). Yesware is a good, easy, free program.

This is crucial for any campaign. If nobody opened your email after a week (which happens at a majority of firms that put out catch-all addresses, in my experience) that gives you license to hit up an individual. If someone opened your email but didn't open it again, forward it, or contact you for a period of time, that gives you license to try again with someone else at the firm. I hit up the nalp/firm website contact first. Failing that, one way or another, I hit up every recruiter I could find that was employed there. (I think it is important and a sign of respect to the process to start with this, but whatever, you need a job). Following that, I did practice group leaders and hiring partners (one by one). I got two cbs by getting to the third rung. I don't think hitting up associates who went to your undergrad/law school is fruitful by comparison, but by all means try if everything else fails and you really care about the firm. If you are not tracking, it is guesswork as to if you were noticed, and if you were noticed and still applied up the chain, it's not a good look.

Programs like yesware will also allow you to send the email at specific times of day. Do not underestimate the importance of timing in an email campaign. Aim for half an hour after an attorney or recruiter, respectively, generally gets into work or has completed lunch, and are thus groggy and has just caught up on email. If you're getting in when they're not at inbox zero, you're more likely to get glossed over. Get them when they're in zombie mode and just got rid of their mess of unreads, in other words.

Maybe not relevant for this cycle, but circumventing the oci process and reaching out to recruiters by saying you will be in town early and want to come in for an interview then instead of waiting for oci (because it is a top choice firm!) also got me a direct to cb cb. Works out for both parties; they don't have to pay for you to take a cb, and they get an extra screener slot at oci. Make sure to use a school specific and thorough subject line to make it seem like you'll be asking something logistical about oci.

Another thing for folks who might be a tad more on the risk-taking side of things: it is a classic spam email tactic to put "Re:" at the beginning of your subject line. It catches your eye because it looks like it's a response to an email you sent out. Luckily for you, you also picked a profession that uses "re:" in a way that doesn't sound like spam when your email subject line is "Re: Summer associate position". I didn't do this, but I was really tempted to, as it definitely works.

Some firms don't post email addresses for recruiters. It might not occur to people on how to get someone's email address, so just look at a partner's email address at that firm. Pretty much always going to follow the same pattern. But then a fair amount of firms don't post email addresses for anyone and require you to submit an inquiry through the website. Google "site:[firm website.com] mailto "@[firm website.com]" [specific contact's name]". You'll at least get the root pattern to work from. Short of that, eliminate the "site:" seach operator; it'll be out there somewhere.

Also keep your cover letters really really short. Nobody has time for that. You should be able read pretty much the whole thing without scrolling on your phone. Down to very basics. Don't bullshit anything or explain anything; be curt. You have their attention for five seconds tops, make it count and cut out the formalities. Among these formalities is stating the full firm name. They already know it. If you're mming skadden say skadden; don't waste that real estate with arps et al. Also among these formalities is the block of contact shit below your name. Don't use extra text anywhere. You already put your preferred contact info in the last sentence of your message and put your school in the first; don't repeat it. Your name will do. (And that sign off should also be the first place your name appears).

Also make sure your resume is the first attachment. That's what they care about; make sure it doesn't take an extra half second for them to get it. That can be the entire difference.

Also absolutely don't do anything that makes your email look like it was a mail merge or was an automated send off. Do the mail merge in word and copy and paste it over using notepad to clear the formatting (unless you have a lot of cash to burn on a pro program). Yeah its a bitch, but include the email address and subject line in your mail merge so you can get a really repetitive process that only requires two windows and alt-tab mastery. Won't take too long; we're not talking about sending 500 emails here. Should also go without saying but follow the one person, one email rule. Sending an email to two at one firm is sending it to zero, and bccing to multiple contacts is just as bad.

So that was kind of scattered and there are probably more specific things I can't think of at the moment, and my flight is about to land, but hopefully that helps someone

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby justkeepswimming794 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:22 am

dusters wrote:After striking out at OCI (0 CBs with median grades at a T14) I want to start mass mailing but don't know where to start. Is there a guide I can read? What am I supposed to include? I assume transcript and resume, but should I also include a cover letter and writing sample? Thanks.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=195818http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=195818
Last edited by justkeepswimming794 on Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chuckbass
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby chuckbass » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:26 am

In love with the "re:" subject line idea

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:02 pm

Is there any sense in combining mass-mailing with cold-email networking?

Say, I send out 100 emails instead of 200 (or 200 instead of 300, etc) but I also email partners at 1/3 of the firms that went to the same law school I did, to talk to them about the firm. Is that effective, or a waste?

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:47 pm

So, Im sure this may have been addressed before, but for the sake of trying to go through the entire history of this page: if your ties are entirely NYC (with some Jersey), where can you realistically apply?

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Kratos
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Kratos » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So, Im sure this may have been addressed before, but for the sake of trying to go through the entire history of this page: if your ties are entirely NYC (with some Jersey), where can you realistically apply?

Jersey, DC, lie about ties to another market

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MCFC
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby MCFC » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:11 pm

Connecticut. Delaware maybe?

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:21 pm

To streamline this, is there a list of firms that don't require cover letters with apps?

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby hoos89 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is there any sense in combining mass-mailing with cold-email networking?

Say, I send out 100 emails instead of 200 (or 200 instead of 300, etc) but I also email partners at 1/3 of the firms that went to the same law school I did, to talk to them about the firm. Is that effective, or a waste?


It's fine to e-mail alumni at firms (try not to be too forward about it), but I wouldn't use this as an excuse to e-mail fewer firms.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:59 am

Just to be a fair warning to everyone, realize when going in that mass mailing is an incredibly, emotionally unsatisfying process. It'll increase your chances of getting a job, but it's also perhaps the most soul-crushing thing.

For example, this morning I sent a follow-up email to a firm I sent materials to a week ago. It only took two minutes for them to respond to my follow-up: "At this time, we are not able to offer you an interview."

Great. 15 minutes of my time to apply and follow-up and one minute to make a decision on my abilities as a median-level student at CCN.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:26 am

So I'm really hitting a dead end here.

I've applied to a bunch of the major firms in the NY market. My advisors at OCS tell me that focusing on those offices is a waste of time because they hire mostly out of EIP.

But now that I'm branching out to smaller offices, I've already gone through 30 different firms and only found 5 or 6 that are actually hiring summer associates. The rest aren't doing anything.

What do I do? Does this mean I'm only going to get out like 80 applications for the NY area?

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Kratos
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Kratos » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:So I'm really hitting a dead end here.

I've applied to a bunch of the major firms in the NY market. My advisors at OCS tell me that focusing on those offices is a waste of time because they hire mostly out of EIP.

But now that I'm branching out to smaller offices, I've already gone through 30 different firms and only found 5 or 6 that are actually hiring summer associates. The rest aren't doing anything.

What do I do? Does this mean I'm only going to get out like 80 applications for the NY area?

your advisors are idiots. i'd mail every big firm in NYC, then move on to big firms in other cities.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:34 am

Kratos wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So I'm really hitting a dead end here.

I've applied to a bunch of the major firms in the NY market. My advisors at OCS tell me that focusing on those offices is a waste of time because they hire mostly out of EIP.

But now that I'm branching out to smaller offices, I've already gone through 30 different firms and only found 5 or 6 that are actually hiring summer associates. The rest aren't doing anything.

What do I do? Does this mean I'm only going to get out like 80 applications for the NY area?

your advisors are idiots. i'd mail every big firm in NYC, then move on to big firms in other cities.


That's what I want to hear, but it is true that there are precious few spots following EIP, no? And for some firms, no slots at all?

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pancakes3
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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby pancakes3 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:38 am

bro, you are not getting it. stop thinking and just press send. or not. who cares. more jerbs for those who do.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:40 am

If I am striking out at OCI primarily because of grades (unfortunately, quite a bit below median), would it be best at this point to focus on getting grades up this semester and try mailing again in December? Or will all opportunities be for 1Ls at that point? I feel like at this point I am wasting time especially because I have received pretty candid feedback that is the area that I need to improve. Will there still be law firm opportunities for 2Ls spring semester?

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:52 am

pancakes3 wrote:bro, you are not getting it. stop thinking and just press send. or not. who cares. more jerbs for those who do.


Got it.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby BigZuck » Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just to be a fair warning to everyone, realize when going in that mass mailing is an incredibly, emotionally unsatisfying process. It'll increase your chances of getting a job, but it's also perhaps the most soul-crushing thing.

For example, this morning I sent a follow-up email to a firm I sent materials to a week ago. It only took two minutes for them to respond to my follow-up: "At this time, we are not able to offer you an interview."

Great. 15 minutes of my time to apply and follow-up and one minute to make a decision on my abilities as a median-level student at CCN.

You've had a really excellent life up until this point if that is the most soul-crushing thing you have ever experienced

Instead of getting sad/discouraged, keep blasting

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:09 pm

BigZuck wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just to be a fair warning to everyone, realize when going in that mass mailing is an incredibly, emotionally unsatisfying process. It'll increase your chances of getting a job, but it's also perhaps the most soul-crushing thing.

For example, this morning I sent a follow-up email to a firm I sent materials to a week ago. It only took two minutes for them to respond to my follow-up: "At this time, we are not able to offer you an interview."

Great. 15 minutes of my time to apply and follow-up and one minute to make a decision on my abilities as a median-level student at CCN.

You've had a really excellent life up until this point if that is the most soul-crushing thing you have ever experienced

Instead of getting sad/discouraged, keep blasting


It's soul-crushing because I'm going a quarter-million in debt with the expectation that this sort of thing wouldn't happen... well, at least wasn't as likely to happen with CCN, above-median, journal and several years job experience.

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Re: Reminder: Stop Reading Tea Leaves; Start Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:35 pm

What should you do if someone frequently opens your mail but doesn't reply, say after a week or so?




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