Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:My best friend goes to Columbia and is top 20%. Went to like 20 OCI, but got no call backs.

Your best friend is not a good interviewer.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:median and somewhat above median seem to have fared the worst among my friends (HYS). law review/top of the class appeared to have tons of "prestigious" callbacks and below median had some pleasant surprises and generally good performance at some of the less selective firms. i think our career services office inflated the expectations of the people around top third, meaning they didn't bid on a lot of super safeties but they were shut out of a lot of the more prestigious places. impossible to make any of this more than anecdotal though.


This somewhat describes my impression of OCI at MVP too. Top 20% did extremely well, below median appropriately targeted less selective firms and did decently, and among median and slightly above median students it's absolutely "feast or famine" with a few having 10 or so callbacks but the vast majority left with 0-5.

Isn't this the story every year? People with good-but-not-great grades overplay their hands and run into trouble.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My best friend goes to Columbia and is top 20%. Went to like 20 OCI, but got no call backs.

Your best friend is not a good interviewer.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My best friend goes to Columbia and is top 20%. Went to like 20 OCI, but got no call backs.

Your best friend is not a good interviewer.

Best friend also should have done twice as many interviews.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:08 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My best friend goes to Columbia and is top 20%. Went to like 20 OCI, but got no call backs.

Your best friend is not a good interviewer.

Best friend also should have done twice as many interviews.


Really? I've never heard of anyone doing more than 30. Actually, one person at my school got 34, and everyone--including OCS--thought she was insane.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:10 am

Our OCI was Thursday, Friday, Monday, Tuesday. It was pretty easy to add interviews every day. If by Sunday night no callbacks had come in, that dude if real should have been there at 7am Monday and Tuesday adding everything in sight. Anyone from CSO who thinks a person with no callbacks on the third day of OCI is insane for not doing as many interviews as possible should be shot.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:14 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:Our OCI was Thursday, Friday, Monday, Tuesday. It was pretty easy to add interviews every day. If by Sunday night no callbacks had come in, that dude if real should have been there at 7am Monday and Tuesday adding everything in sight. Anyone from CSO who thinks a person with no callbacks on the third day of OCI is insane for not doing as many interviews as possible should be shot.


Ah. At NYU it's W-F, and day-of interviews Friday were super hard to come by. And there wouldn't have been the same urgency, since it seemed like Friday afternoon was when the callbacks really started coming.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:19 am

I don't know what the OCI results will look like but my guess is they'll be very similar to what we've seen over the last couple of years. Regardless, the lesson for future classes is that the gunning must begin early and continue until at least one offer is secured. Don't get screwed by randomness or bad luck.
Last edited by Tiago Splitter on Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:20 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:median and somewhat above median seem to have fared the worst among my friends (HYS). law review/top of the class appeared to have tons of "prestigious" callbacks and below median had some pleasant surprises and generally good performance at some of the less selective firms. i think our career services office inflated the expectations of the people around top third, meaning they didn't bid on a lot of super safeties but they were shut out of a lot of the more prestigious places. impossible to make any of this more than anecdotal though.


This somewhat describes my impression of OCI at MVP too. Top 20% did extremely well, below median appropriately targeted less selective firms and did decently, and among median and slightly above median students it's absolutely "feast or famine" with a few having 10 or so callbacks but the vast majority left with 0-5.

Isn't this the story every year? People with good-but-not-great grades overplay their hands and run into trouble.


It's not even overplaying their hands. Firms just aren't that impressed with good but not great grades (which varies school to school and firm to firm). Firms who aren't grade selective, aren't impressed by top third. People in this grade range can kill it, because they have other talents, personality, etc. etc., and their GPA doesn't hold them back. But they can also crash and burn because their GPA isn't a huge help either.

Also 0-5 CBs is a huge range. 5 CB's is a lot, not a famine. Nobody should be embarrassed by having 5.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Robespierre » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:49 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:I don't know what the OCI results will look like but my guess is they'll be very similar to what we've seen over the last couple of years. Regardless, the lesson for future classes is that the gunning must begin early and continue until at least one offer is secured. Don't get screwed by randomness or bad luck.


Tiago - You're not sensing that the class of '15 being smaller than previous classes will lead to a greater percentage of grads getting the outcomes they want? Just askin'. Thanks.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby echooo23 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:04 pm

Robespierre wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:I don't know what the OCI results will look like but my guess is they'll be very similar to what we've seen over the last couple of years. Regardless, the lesson for future classes is that the gunning must begin early and continue until at least one offer is secured. Don't get screwed by randomness or bad luck.


Tiago - You're not sensing that the class of '15 being smaller than previous classes will lead to a greater percentage of grads getting the outcomes they want? Just askin'. Thanks.


Classes are not smaller at the schools where big law firms recruit.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:05 pm

Hell I heard CLS is taking more transfers than ever.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:07 pm

echooo23 wrote:
Robespierre wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:I don't know what the OCI results will look like but my guess is they'll be very similar to what we've seen over the last couple of years. Regardless, the lesson for future classes is that the gunning must begin early and continue until at least one offer is secured. Don't get screwed by randomness or bad luck.


Tiago - You're not sensing that the class of '15 being smaller than previous classes will lead to a greater percentage of grads getting the outcomes they want? Just askin'. Thanks.


Classes are not smaller at the schools where big law firms recruit.

Pretty much this. OTOH, at my school we are actually ten percent smaller, but I don't get the sense that this is easy for a lot of people.

Desert Fox wrote:Hell I heard CLS is taking more transfers than ever.

Hadn't heard this. I heard someone say about 50, which is way less than it was a few years ago but that's not confirmed.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:14 pm

NYU has 49 transfers but only 43 participating in OCI

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby bk1 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Really? I've never heard of anyone doing more than 30. Actually, one person at my school got 34, and everyone--including OCS--thought she was insane.

This is the problem. People at top schools, even OCS at top schools, think that a certain number of screeners or callbacks is a "safe" number. There is no such thing. People routinely strike out because they took things for granted. People need to hustle like their life depends on it until they have an offer.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:21 pm

bk1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really? I've never heard of anyone doing more than 30. Actually, one person at my school got 34, and everyone--including OCS--thought she was insane.

This is the problem. People at top schools, even OCS at top schools, think that a certain number of screeners or callbacks is a "safe" number. There is no such thing. People routinely strike out because they took things for granted. People need to hustle like their life depends on it until they have an offer.

Had 37 screeners, got 2 CB's. at MVP. Gonna hustle hard this week.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby bk1 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Had 37 screeners, got 2 CB's. at MVP. Gonna hustle hard this week.

Good on ya. Good luck bro.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Tom Joad » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:30 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Hell I heard CLS is taking more transfers than ever.

:(

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby gtz » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:30 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:median and somewhat above median seem to have fared the worst among my friends (HYS). law review/top of the class appeared to have tons of "prestigious" callbacks and below median had some pleasant surprises and generally good performance at some of the less selective firms. i think our career services office inflated the expectations of the people around top third, meaning they didn't bid on a lot of super safeties but they were shut out of a lot of the more prestigious places. impossible to make any of this more than anecdotal though.


This somewhat describes my impression of OCI at MVP too. Top 20% did extremely well, below median appropriately targeted less selective firms and did decently, and among median and slightly above median students it's absolutely "feast or famine" with a few having 10 or so callbacks but the vast majority left with 0-5.

Isn't this the story every year? People with good-but-not-great grades overplay their hands and run into trouble.


It's not even overplaying their hands. Firms just aren't that impressed with good but not great grades (which varies school to school and firm to firm). Firms who aren't grade selective, aren't impressed by top third. People in this grade range can kill it, because they have other talents, personality, etc. etc., and their GPA doesn't hold them back. But they can also crash and burn because their GPA isn't a huge help either.Also 0-5 CBs is a huge range. 5 CB's is a lot, not a famine. Nobody should be embarrassed by having 5.


This is the same thing at my lower T14: slightly above median seems to have the largest range al the way from 0 callbacks to 10 callbacks for really good interviewers and smart bidders. It was pretty striking how much other factors played a role. But generally people seem to have around 2 at my school.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really? I've never heard of anyone doing more than 30. Actually, one person at my school got 34, and everyone--including OCS--thought she was insane.

This is the problem. People at top schools, even OCS at top schools, think that a certain number of screeners or callbacks is a "safe" number. There is no such thing. People routinely strike out because they took things for granted. People need to hustle like their life depends on it until they have an offer.

Had 37 screeners, got 2 CB's. at MVP. Gonna hustle hard this week.


+1, though a few more CBs. I'm waiting to hear back from a ton though (and am emailing those firms which have taken longer than a week to get back to me with LOCIs).

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby NYstate » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:07 am

Summer classes may well be smaller this year compared to last and firms may be more selective too. Decrease in class size doesn't help with getting SAs as the number of SAs may be reduced.

It is hard to say for certain how firms will react, but the Citi report from today projects flat growth for 2013 which means continuing pressure on firms to reduce costs. Cutting summer class size is an easy way to reduce costs.

I'm not saying people should panic. Just be aware of the reality of the financial situation and keep hustling for a job until you get one. Don't get discouraged if the market is against you



http://m.americanlawyer.com/module/alm/ ... 1104440602

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:11 am

gtz wrote:This is the same thing at my lower T14: slightly above median seems to have the largest range al the way from 0 callbacks to 10 callbacks for really good interviewers and smart bidders. It was pretty striking how much other factors played a role. But generally people seem to have around 2 at my school.

The surprising thing at my lower T14 is that its really hard to tell what is separating the people with 8+ CB's from those with 0-2. I guess it must be interviewing skills because it doesn't seem to be WE or bid strategy. Its just hard for me to believe that there can be that much of a discrepancy just based on a 20 minute interview, but thats legal hiring...

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:16 am

There's 45 transfers to CLS this year I've heard, less than last year actually. Still sounds like a lot to me though.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
gtz wrote:This is the same thing at my lower T14: slightly above median seems to have the largest range al the way from 0 callbacks to 10 callbacks for really good interviewers and smart bidders. It was pretty striking how much other factors played a role. But generally people seem to have around 2 at my school.

The surprising thing at my lower T14 is that its really hard to tell what is separating the people with 8+ CB's from those with 0-2. I guess it must be interviewing skills because it doesn't seem to be WE or bid strategy. Its just hard for me to believe that there can be that much of a discrepancy just based on a 20 minute interview, but thats legal hiring...


At my lower T14, personality really seemed to be the key. I know people below median who have 5+ CB's but they all seem like they would interview well. Also know 4 people all over in terms of grades (from top 30 - slightly below median) who have no CBs.

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Re: Any consensus on the OCI market this year?

Postby Robespierre » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:00 pm

echooo23 wrote:
Robespierre wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:I don't know what the OCI results will look like but my guess is they'll be very similar to what we've seen over the last couple of years. Regardless, the lesson for future classes is that the gunning must begin early and continue until at least one offer is secured. Don't get screwed by randomness or bad luck.


Tiago - You're not sensing that the class of '15 being smaller than previous classes will lead to a greater percentage of grads getting the outcomes they want? Just askin'. Thanks.


Classes are not smaller at the schools where big law firms recruit.


I was asking about his school in particular, where the class of '15 is indeed smaller. Sorry it wasn't clear.




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