Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

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Anonymous User
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Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:30 pm

I'm a transfer student who was one of the top students at my old T1 school and I just finished OCI at my new T14 school. I had nearly 30 screeners, have zero callbacks, and have had a steady stream of dings. I did a few mock interviews and was told that I was a very good interview and should have nothing to worry about. Surprise, surprise.

I've mass-mailed about 150 firms over the past week or two to no avail. I'll continue to mass-mail, but what else can I be doing? My career services office was largely useless, telling me not to panic because callbacks come in waves and reminding me of how futile most mass-mailing campaigns are.

cdelgado
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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby cdelgado » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:33 pm

This is depressing. Sorry, dude. Are you targeting more secondary markets? Sometimes they take a while to respond.

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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:38 pm

cdelgado wrote:This is depressing. Sorry, dude. Are you targeting more secondary markets? Sometimes they take a while to respond.


Yeah, it's not exactly my finest hour. FWIW, I'm a very extroverted person and the interviews didn't seem to be going poorly, so this isn't a "you must look like Shrek or be a total aspie" situation. I checked and double-checked my resume to make sure the first line didn't say "f*ck you" because these results came as a total shock.

My target market was a notoriously tough market, but it's the only market I have ties to. I've heard that nearly every single firm I interviewed with has already made callbacks, so I think it's safe to say I struck out at OCI.

Itinerant
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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Itinerant » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:41 pm

Have you tried NY?

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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:44 pm

Itinerant wrote:Have you tried NY?


I've been emailing NYC offices. I've worked my way through almost all of the NALP firms. I have zero ties to the city and have received mostly silence, a handful of dings, and one firm that responded to ask why I'm interested in working in New York considering my lack of ties.

Anonymous User
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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:54 pm

I was in your situation last year (29 screeners, 1 CB from OCI though mine was down to interviewing.) Don't just resume launchpad massmail. I think I got about 3 interviews from doing that. You need to be more strategic.

My advice:
- Find the list of OCI interviewers and email the interviewers from the firms you didn't get a slot with asking them if they can get you an interview. I landed a few this way.
- Symplicity - Check it all the time
- Use this guide: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87297

I hope it works out for you. You still have time.

NYstate
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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby NYstate » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:59 pm

Did you get any advice on your bid list? Are you K-JD?
I think the combination of transfer plus tough target market is most likely a huge part of the problem.

I think you are correct that career services is underestimating your situation. I agree with contacting the firms that attended your OCI.

Edit: you are treating new york wrong. When they ask why New York talk about your interest in the work that is available and working on the most sophisticated and complex matters. Didn't you post a question about this before ?

What kind of cover letter are you sending to New York firms?

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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:07 pm

NYstate wrote:Did you get any advice on your bid list? Are you K-JD?
I think the combination of transfer plus tough target market is most likely a huge part of the problem.

Edit: you are treating new york wrong. When they ask why New York talk about your interest in the work that is available and working on the most sophisticated and complex matters. Didn't you post a question about this before ?


I never bring up my lack of ties to New York and, when I was asked, discussed my interest in the work.

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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was in your situation last year (29 screeners, 1 CB from OCI though mine was down to interviewing.) Don't just resume launchpad massmail. I think I got about 3 interviews from doing that. You need to be more strategic.

My advice:
- Find the list of OCI interviewers and email the interviewers from the firms you didn't get a slot with asking them if they can get you an interview. I landed a few this way.
- Symplicity - Check it all the time
- Use this guide: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87297

I hope it works out for you. You still have time.


Thank you, I will contact those firms immediately. This is very solid advice.

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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:25 pm

Something similar happened to me last year... not sure what to tell you man. Check out the HLS--advice for marginal candidates thread... do not take it too personally... ask for an urgent mock interview by career services. I am introverted, but felt I was a good interviewer because of previous interviewing experiences. Good luck!

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Lasers
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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Lasers » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:45 pm

sorry to say, but unless there's something on your resume that's a red flag or your grades are poor, it's very likely the interview that's preventing you from CBs.

keep mass mailing/following up with firms in all markets you have ties with. many firms are still doing OCI interviews, etc. so they won't look at the mass mail they received until a bit later. i and a friend of mine were getting quite a few hits end of august/early september last year.

NYstate
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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby NYstate » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:48 pm

Lasers wrote:sorry to say, but unless there's something on your resume that's a red flag or your grades are poor, it's very likely the interview that's preventing you from CBs.

keep mass mailing/following up. many firms are still doing OCI interviews, etc. so they won't look at the mass mail they received until a bit later.


You don't think being a transfer into a tough market is a good part of this?

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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:50 pm

i think one of the big X factors we don't know too is what T14 did you transfer into? im sure there will be some difference between YHS and sayy DNCG

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Lasers
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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Lasers » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:53 pm

NYstate wrote:
Lasers wrote:sorry to say, but unless there's something on your resume that's a red flag or your grades are poor, it's very likely the interview that's preventing you from CBs.

keep mass mailing/following up. many firms are still doing OCI interviews, etc. so they won't look at the mass mail they received until a bit later.


You don't think being a transfer into a tough market is a good part of this?

no. it's definitely a factor, and i'm almost certain a couple of those firms OP interviewed with simply don't hire transfers, but for the vast majority of those 30 firms, i'd probably wager it's because of the interview. if your interview isn't very strong, and you're an otherwise decent but not great candidate, you will not get a callback. OP should also look into how fellow transfers have fared.

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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:02 pm

Lasers wrote:
NYstate wrote:
Lasers wrote:sorry to say, but unless there's something on your resume that's a red flag or your grades are poor, it's very likely the interview that's preventing you from CBs.

keep mass mailing/following up. many firms are still doing OCI interviews, etc. so they won't look at the mass mail they received until a bit later.


You don't think being a transfer into a tough market is a good part of this?

no. it's definitely a factor, and i'm almost certain a couple of those firms OP interviewed with simply don't hire transfers, but for the vast majority of those 30 firms, i'd probably wager it's because of the interview. if your interview isn't very strong, and you're an otherwise decent but not great candidate, you will not get a callback. OP should also look into how fellow transfers have fared.


It's more complicated than that. I'd wager interviewing is a factor but secondary market firms often don't give out that many CBs so it's a much tougher game to play. Focusing too much on those firms can be bad if you're competing against Top 10%/LR people and you're just a transfer.

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Lasers
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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Lasers » Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Lasers wrote:
NYstate wrote:
Lasers wrote:sorry to say, but unless there's something on your resume that's a red flag or your grades are poor, it's very likely the interview that's preventing you from CBs.

keep mass mailing/following up. many firms are still doing OCI interviews, etc. so they won't look at the mass mail they received until a bit later.


You don't think being a transfer into a tough market is a good part of this?

no. it's definitely a factor, and i'm almost certain a couple of those firms OP interviewed with simply don't hire transfers, but for the vast majority of those 30 firms, i'd probably wager it's because of the interview. if your interview isn't very strong, and you're an otherwise decent but not great candidate, you will not get a callback. OP should also look into how fellow transfers have fared.


It's more complicated than that. I'd wager interviewing is a factor but secondary market firms often don't give out that many CBs so it's a much tougher game to play. Focusing too much on those firms can be bad if you're competing against Top 10%/LR people and you're just a transfer.

to be frank, your only recourse is interviewing really well when going up against candidates with a superior resume. there is no doubt that it's extremely tough, and as a transfer last year, i know how difficult it is. unless your interviews are going brilliantly, that's what i would focus on improving because you can't up your already strong grades or add LR in the meantime.

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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:22 pm

OP here. I transferred into one of MVPB. No red flags on my resume, no indication of prior public interest leaning, and no typos. The only critique I've received during mock interviews was that I shouldn't wear socks with color or patterns. So, I didn't wear colored or pattered socks during OCI.

One of the issues may be that I'm back in my home market now, but my original school was nowhere near that market (I chose that school due to the large scholarship they offered me). This made it difficult to know which firms were within reach as very few of the offices I interviewed with interview at my former school. Those offices that do interview at my former school immediately questioned my loyalty to that market considering I fled that market for this school. In any case, I likely put myself into too many "reach" interviews and shot myself in the foot.

I'm definitely going to work on becoming the best interview I can be. I did another mock this afternoon and was told, once again, that I'm a solid interview. However, considering that I'm in a tough market (but really, every market is "tough" ITE), I suppose being a solid interview simply isn't enough. I need to be a flawless interview. I'll continue working on this so that I am one for whenever I get a bite through mailing or whatever else.

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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby RodneyRuxin » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. I transferred into one of MVPB. No red flags on my resume, no indication of prior public interest leaning, and no typos. The only critique I've received during mock interviews was that I shouldn't wear socks with color or patterns. So, I didn't wear colored or pattered socks during OCI.

One of the issues may be that I'm back in my home market now, but my original school was nowhere near that market (I chose that school due to the large scholarship they offered me). This made it difficult to know which firms were within reach as very few of the offices I interviewed with interview at my former school. Those offices that do interview at my former school immediately questioned my loyalty to that market considering I fled that market for this school. In any case, I likely put myself into too many "reach" interviews and shot myself in the foot.

I'm definitely going to work on becoming the best interview I can be. I did another mock this afternoon and was told, once again, that I'm a solid interview. However, considering that I'm in a tough market (but really, every market is "tough" ITE), I suppose being a solid interview simply isn't enough. I need to be a flawless interview. I'll continue working on this so that I am one for whenever I get a bite through mailing or whatever else.


Elsewhere on this site I've heard that 1) transfers are treated as if they're from the past school and 2) there are a certain number of slots for callbacks for each school.

I'm just guessing here, but maybe it's because your secondary market didn't have any slots for your past school. Target NY hard.

NYstate
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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby NYstate » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:09 am

RodneyRuxin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. I transferred into one of MVPB. No red flags on my resume, no indication of prior public interest leaning, and no typos. The only critique I've received during mock interviews was that I shouldn't wear socks with color or patterns. So, I didn't wear colored or pattered socks during OCI.

One of the issues may be that I'm back in my home market now, but my original school was nowhere near that market (I chose that school due to the large scholarship they offered me). This made it difficult to know which firms were within reach as very few of the offices I interviewed with interview at my former school. Those offices that do interview at my former school immediately questioned my loyalty to that market considering I fled that market for this school. In any case, I likely put myself into too many "reach" interviews and shot myself in the foot.

I'm definitely going to work on becoming the best interview I can be. I did another mock this afternoon and was told, once again, that I'm a solid interview. However, considering that I'm in a tough market (but really, every market is "tough" ITE), I suppose being a solid interview simply isn't enough. I need to be a flawless interview. I'll continue working on this so that I am one for whenever I get a bite through mailing or whatever else.


Elsewhere on this site I've heard that 1) transfers are treated as if they're from the past school and 2) there are a certain number of slots for callbacks for each school.

I'm just guessing here, but maybe it's because your secondary market didn't have any slots for your past school. Target NY hard.


This is what I'm thinking along with a poor bidding strategy that targeted firms where he had no shot.

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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:58 pm

I am hearing this from other students. I think that there just are not enough slots in the upcoming summer class to go around. I just think the bottom has fell out. Just my sense.

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hichvichwoh
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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby hichvichwoh » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am hearing this from other students. I think that there just are not enough slots in the upcoming summer class to go around. I just think the bottom has fell out. Just my sense.


well this is definitely true. smaller classes at a lot of firms this year

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Lasers
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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Lasers » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:11 am

hichvichwoh wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am hearing this from other students. I think that there just are not enough slots in the upcoming summer class to go around. I just think the bottom has fell out. Just my sense.


well this is definitely true. smaller classes at a lot of firms this year

yep, it was the same way last year. i wouldn't be surprised if this year is just as bad if not worse. despite the relatively high offer rates for those that do get SA's, summer classes have continually shrunk despite the rebounding economy.

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20160810
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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby 20160810 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:26 am

For some reason my guess from the get go here is that you were applying in SF, and if that turns out to be correct I'd say expand your scope to LA immediately. Also consider Sacramento if you can fudge some ties. And of course NYC.

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Lasers
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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby Lasers » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:38 am

SBL wrote:For some reason my guess from the get go here is that you were applying in SF, and if that turns out to be correct I'd say expand your scope to LA immediately. Also consider Sacramento if you can fudge some ties. And of course NYC.

it would make sense. sf is probably the toughest legal market to break into...not like LA is much better.

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20160810
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Re: Almost 30 screeners, zero callbacks...

Postby 20160810 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:58 am

Lasers wrote:
SBL wrote:For some reason my guess from the get go here is that you were applying in SF, and if that turns out to be correct I'd say expand your scope to LA immediately. Also consider Sacramento if you can fudge some ties. And of course NYC.

it would make sense. sf is probably the toughest legal market to break into...not like LA is much better.

At least it's bigger I guess, and a Berkeley transfer (again, guessing by the addition of B to MVPB) would fare decently against UCLA/SC kids




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