Reneging/interviewing post-offer advice needed plz n thank u

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Reneging/interviewing post-offer advice needed plz n thank u

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:52 pm

Here's the situation - I'm in biglaw in city 1. My SO, a 3L, received a permanent offer at a single-office, midsized firm across the country in city 2. SO has to accept/decline by the end of this month b/c firm is non-NALP so they can (and did) give a BS timeline if they want.

We'd like to be able to decide where we're going to be long term w/o being forced into it by a 1-time BS deadline imposed by a non-biglaw firm paying 33% under market, but it's fucking difficult for SO to turn down a decent-paying job as a 3L. The market SO would be in is poor for my practice area and doesn't pay great so it isn't ideal overall, plus it'd be a downgrade in terms of firm quality if I went there so I'm scrambling to try to keep this from dragging me there before I can even negotiate with SO. I won't have trouble getting a job in city 2 as I have essentially a standing offer, but I'd rather not have to take it (this would be next year after SO graduates) for the aforementioned reasons. I also feel that it would be unfair to demand that SO move without a job when SO has an offer lined up, particularly since we aren't married.

SO has applied to and is getting some interest from firms in city 1 after sending out resumes; nothing concrete but the line is bobbing and I suspect there'll be more interest if firms get an "I'm going to be in the area on x date" email. SO will also probably apply to markets 3 and 4, which is fine w/ me long term b/c my practice area is pretty good in those markets.

What to do? Anyone know anything about consequences of reneging on permanent offers? Unfortunately there are a few personal issues w/ doing that for SO, but at this point the first bridge to be crossed is just understanding the professional issues.

Initial inclination is to talk to SO about accepting on deadline and interviewing/applying as if there's no deadline. Then, see what develops from that and make a decision if another offer comes through and is strong enough. Thoughts?

TLDR - what are consequences for reneging from midsized firm in secondary/tertiary market? Is there any harm in continuing to look after accepting, and does that change calculus for reneging if an offer comes through?

Stressful situation, halp plz TLS
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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guano
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Re: Reneging/interviewing post-offer advice needed plz n thank u

Postby guano » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:09 pm

Just so I understand it right, you're an associate in biglaw right now?
And you'd give up your market paying job to try to find a position that might not exist, so your SO can take a sub-market job with shitty prospects?

Scenario 1 - you keep your job) collectively make $$$ and SO has to scramble for a job
Scenario 2 - SO takes the job) collectively make $ while you scramble for a job

Hmm

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Reneging/interviewing post-offer advice needed plz n thank u

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:11 pm

No, I'm pretty sure what the OP means is, what are the ramifications of the SO accepting the sub-market job, continuing to job search, and then bailing on the sub-market job if/when the SO gets a better gig somewhere they can both get decent work.

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Re: Reneging/interviewing post-offer advice needed plz n thank u

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:31 pm

guano wrote:Just so I understand it right, you're an associate in biglaw right now?
And you'd give up your market paying job to try to find a position that might not exist, so your SO can take a sub-market job with shitty prospects?

Scenario 1 - you keep your job) collectively make $$$ and SO has to scramble for a job
Scenario 2 - SO takes the job) collectively make $ while you scramble for a job

Hmm
My situation is settled in that respect, so this isn't really about me. Pretty unique, not going to describe it b/c outting etc but based on what partners at city 2 firm (some in my practice area; best firm and best group in my practice area in that city so there's that but it's still not as good as current) have told me, pretty sure all I'd have to do is say the word. Currently at firm that is at or near top of city 1. City 2 firm pays city 2 market, but "market" is lower. The market rate isn't low enough to make dual income in city 2 worse than single income in city 1, but it's still lower. In all fairness, while the pay cut is >20k in city 2, I might be overstating the quality drop. There's a marked difference, but it isn't quite Cravath vs. generic mid-biglaw firm.

ANM has it exactly right. Hoping for city 1 at least in the short term, but cities 3 and 4 are still desirable and could end up being upgrades in some ways.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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guano
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Re: Reneging/interviewing post-offer advice needed plz n thank u

Postby guano » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
guano wrote:Just so I understand it right, you're an associate in biglaw right now?
And you'd give up your market paying job to try to find a position that might not exist, so your SO can take a sub-market job with shitty prospects?

Scenario 1 - you keep your job) collectively make $$$ and SO has to scramble for a job
Scenario 2 - SO takes the job) collectively make $ while you scramble for a job

Hmm
My situation is settled. Pretty unique, not going to describe it b/c outting etc but based on what partners at the firm (some in my practice area; best firm and best group in my practice area in that city so there's that but it's still not as good as current) have told me, pretty sure all I'd have to do is say the word. Currently at firm that is at or near top of city 1. City 2 firm pays city 2 market, but "market" is lower. Not low enough to make dual income in city 2 < than single income in city 1, but still lower.

ANM has it. Hoping for city 1 at least in the short term, but cities 3 and 4 are still desirable and could end up being upgrades in some ways.

Thanks for the clarification. How close / related are the markets?
If we're talking 1 NY, 2 Wyoming, 3 Boston, 4 DC, I'd say fuck it, but if 2 is Philly, then it's more likely to have repercussions

Edit, but really, I haven't a clue

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Re: Reneging/interviewing post-offer advice needed plz n thank u

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:53 pm

guano wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
guano wrote:Just so I understand it right, you're an associate in biglaw right now?
And you'd give up your market paying job to try to find a position that might not exist, so your SO can take a sub-market job with shitty prospects?

Scenario 1 - you keep your job) collectively make $$$ and SO has to scramble for a job
Scenario 2 - SO takes the job) collectively make $ while you scramble for a job

Hmm
My situation is settled. Pretty unique, not going to describe it b/c outting etc but based on what partners at the firm (some in my practice area; best firm and best group in my practice area in that city so there's that but it's still not as good as current) have told me, pretty sure all I'd have to do is say the word. Currently at firm that is at or near top of city 1. City 2 firm pays city 2 market, but "market" is lower. Not low enough to make dual income in city 2 < than single income in city 1, but still lower.

ANM has it. Hoping for city 1 at least in the short term, but cities 3 and 4 are still desirable and could end up being upgrades in some ways.

Thanks for the clarification. How close / related are the markets?
If we're talking 1 NY, 2 Wyoming, 3 Boston, 4 DC, I'd say fuck it, but if 2 is Philly, then it's more likely to have repercussions

Edit, but really, I haven't a clue
NP. 1 is virtually other side of the country, 3 and 4 are both more than 300 miles from city 2 and more significant legal markets. Deadline firm only has one office, which is located in city 2. Not sure how related cities 2 3 and 4 are, but city 3 probably looks down its nose a bit at city 2 and I wouldn't be surprised if city 4 did as well. City 2 kinda seems isolated/like its own world to me, but I'll admit that I'm not super familiar with it so that's probably not worth considering

NYstate
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Re: Reneging/interviewing post-offer advice needed plz n thank u

Postby NYstate » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:01 pm

Why would your SO accept an undesirable job in an undesirable location? Why did they even apply?

Don't accept the job. Stay where you have biglaw and let SO find something else.


Edit to add: your posts are way too confusing to understand.

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Re: Reneging/interviewing post-offer advice needed plz n thank u

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:20 pm

NYstate wrote:Why would your SO accept an undesirable job in an undesirable location? Why did they even apply?

Don't accept the job. Stay where you have biglaw and let SO find something else.


Edit to add: your posts are way too confusing to understand.
SO is from city 2, plus that's simply where SO got the most interest from firms as a 2L. SO's summer offer came early in the cycle so drawing out the process until SO could hear back from city 1 wasn't an option; it was basically the same kind of problem that we're currently having. It simply didn't make sense to leave the offer on the table at that point, especially when reapplying as a 3L without an offer would be much more difficult than doing so with an offer.

Not planning on accepting the job right now, SO is still in school so I'm trying to figure out if I can avoid taking that job after SO graduates.

Sorry, trying to relay a lot of info and convey nuance w/o being too specific and it's probably killing any semblance of clarity. Edited first post to attempt to make it a bit more understandable.

NYstate
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Re: Reneging/interviewing post-offer advice needed plz n thank u

Postby NYstate » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
NYstate wrote:Why would your SO accept an undesirable job in an undesirable location? Why did they even apply?

Don't accept the job. Stay where you have biglaw and let SO find something else.


Edit to add: your posts are way too confusing to understand.
SO is from city 2, plus that's simply where SO got the most interest from firms as a 2L. SO's summer offer came early in the cycle so drawing out the process until SO could hear back from city 1 wasn't an option; it was basically the same kind of problem that we're currently having. It simply didn't make sense to leave the offer on the table at that point, especially when reapplying as a 3L without an offer would be much more difficult than doing so with an offer.

Not planning on accepting the job right now, SO is still in school so I'm trying to figure out if I can avoid taking that job after SO graduates.

Sorry, trying to relay a lot of info and convey nuance w/o being too specific and it's probably killing any semblance of clarity. Edited first post to attempt to make it a bit more understandable.


You have a job in the city you want to live in, but your SO doesn't. But your SO has an offer in the market she is from, and you could maybe get a job there if you want one.

Is your question should your SO accept the offer and keep looking just so she can maybe find something else?

If so, my answer is that it sounds like you have no desire to live and work where she has an offer. So, why would she accept it? She can turn it down and tell prospective employers she had an offer, but turned it down to be in the same city where you have a job.

( sorry if I got genders mixed up)

Anonymous User
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Re: Reneging/interviewing post-offer advice needed plz n thank u

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:36 pm

NYstate wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
NYstate wrote:Why would your SO accept an undesirable job in an undesirable location? Why did they even apply?

Don't accept the job. Stay where you have biglaw and let SO find something else.


Edit to add: your posts are way too confusing to understand.
SO is from city 2, plus that's simply where SO got the most interest from firms as a 2L. SO's summer offer came early in the cycle so drawing out the process until SO could hear back from city 1 wasn't an option; it was basically the same kind of problem that we're currently having. It simply didn't make sense to leave the offer on the table at that point, especially when reapplying as a 3L without an offer would be much more difficult than doing so with an offer.

Not planning on accepting the job right now, SO is still in school so I'm trying to figure out if I can avoid taking that job after SO graduates.

Sorry, trying to relay a lot of info and convey nuance w/o being too specific and it's probably killing any semblance of clarity. Edited first post to attempt to make it a bit more understandable.


You have a job in the city you want to live in, but your SO doesn't. But your SO has an offer in the market she is from, and you could maybe get a job there if you want one.

Is your question should your SO accept the offer and keep looking just so she can maybe find something else?

If so, my answer is that it sounds like you have no desire to live and work where she has an offer. So, why would she accept it? She can turn it down and tell prospective employers she had an offer, but turned it down to be in the same city where you have a job.

( sorry if I got genders mixed up)
Actually just talked to her and she doesn't want to have to renege either way, which is understandable, so looks like she's going to see if she can at least get interviews w/in the next week or two via emails that explain the situation to firms she already applied to. Hoping that's the case, b/c otherwise looks like either I'm lateraling in a year or she is in 2 years, in which case we're spending 2 years apart instead of 1.

I guess this is all moot now as a result of the above, but it's less about where we do or don't want to live and more about wanting the ability to, as a preliminary matter, figure out what our options are and then discuss/negotiate with one another as a team instead of being led by the nose. She likes city 1 and is definitely open to it. The consideration on the other side is that it isn't fair to ask her to give up a job and thereby risk having shitlaw or no job at all while I ball out, which would be bad for morale on both sides and worse from a financial standpoint. She has a very good resume but isn't top of the class so not accepting is a risk - while she's a lot more personable and normal than most law students and thus is comfortable in interviews, getting the interviews in the first place is usually the hard part.

Gotta say all of this gives me new appreciation for NALP and what it does as an organization. It's a bitch to not have those guidelines in action.

I tried to keep it gender neutral for anonymity but between my writing and the context there probably wasn't any point to that anyway




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