Winston & Strawn offer rate

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:53 am

Ludovico Technique wrote:
Lol. What did they say about last summer's massacre?


They repeated the same answer I got from the recruiting people which was that they had always intended a class in the low 20s and got higher than expected acceptances on offers. If true, I guess mildly reassuring - until you realize that they never gave any indication of this to the summers.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:Got a callback with this firm. Anyone know whether this summer class had similar offer rates or if they've adjusted the class size to be consistent with their actual needs? Also, everyone who has said to stay away and not bid this firm, is that related to the offer rate issue or are there other reasons?


Their need is to maximize PPP. The staffing for that need is whatever is minimally sufficient at any given time.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby rad lulz » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Ludovico Technique wrote:
Lol. What did they say about last summer's massacre?


They repeated the same answer I got from the recruiting people which was that they had always intended a class in the low 20s and got higher than expected acceptances on offers. If true, I guess mildly reassuring - until you realize that they never gave any indication of this to the summers.

Yeah I bet that's not even true

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:01 am

rad lulz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Ludovico Technique wrote:
Lol. What did they say about last summer's massacre?


They repeated the same answer I got from the recruiting people which was that they had always intended a class in the low 20s and got higher than expected acceptances on offers. If true, I guess mildly reassuring - until you realize that they never gave any indication of this to the summers.

Yeah I bet that's not even true


Agreed,missing the yield projection by that much seems pretty unlikely.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:04 pm

I was a SA here this summer (I'm not going to say which office because firmwide there were only about 30 summers this year). I share my fellow SAs' concerns about getting an offer (I was told we wouldn't hear til late August), but if you have a callback here I honestly would wait to ask tough questions about summer offer rates until after you have an offer in hand. My impression is that this is a somewhat sensitive issue at the firm, so rather than risk upsetting someone and possibly blowing your chances at an offer, wait until you have one until you bring it up (at which point you should definitely ask about it). Hopefully offers for this year's summers will go out before then and you will have better information.

One thing I will add-- a significant number of the firm's summer class was comprised of 1Ls this year. If you get a Winston offer, you may want to specifically ask about offer rates for 2Ls, since it is less risky and less of an investment for the firm to bring back a 1L next summer for a few weeks.

And finally, I will say that I had a great experience at Winston this summer. I really liked all the people I worked with (and the other summers) and feel like I got to do interesting substantive work. Two years ago the firm also brought in a big contingent of people from Dewey after Winston had made summer offers but before the beginning of the summer program. Telling the summers that they should all get offers was a crappy thing to do, but I am hopeful that that year was an aberration.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was a SA here this summer (I'm not going to say which office because firmwide there were only about 30 summers this year). I share my fellow SAs' concerns about getting an offer (I was told we wouldn't hear til late August), but if you have a callback here I honestly would wait to ask tough questions about summer offer rates until after you have an offer in hand. My impression is that this is a somewhat sensitive issue at the firm, so rather than risk upsetting someone and possibly blowing your chances at an offer, wait until you have one until you bring it up (at which point you should definitely ask about it). Hopefully offers for this year's summers will go out before then and you will have better information.

One thing I will add-- a significant number of the firm's summer class was comprised of 1Ls this year. If you get a Winston offer, you may want to specifically ask about offer rates for 2Ls, since it is less risky and less of an investment for the firm to bring back a 1L next summer for a few weeks.

And finally, I will say that I had a great experience at Winston this summer. I really liked all the people I worked with (and the other summers) and feel like I got to do interesting substantive work. Two years ago the firm also brought in a big contingent of people from Dewey after Winston had made summer offers but before the beginning of the summer program. Telling the summers that they should all get offers was a crappy thing to do, but I am hopeful that that year was an aberration.


First SA here, the bolded is definitely the wise course of action. I was a bit reckless but thankfully it didn't blow up in my face.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby NYstate » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:25 pm

They are telling people that they no offered a huge part of the class because too many people accepted their offers? They are so full of shit.
"We only had to ruin these kids careers because we are so popular. Not our fault, really."
The truth is that their summers had other offers at firms that hired everyone. If, instead of trusting Winston, they had gone with other firms, they would be making big law money instead of fighting to pay for the bar and rent.

Winston did absolutely nothing to help the no offered associates. Even during the recession firms tried to defer people instead of cutting them lose completely with no hope of a career.

I would never trust what these people tell you. You have to protect your career. They are clearly dishonest.

If they had no offered people but pounded the pavement or made calls for them, or done something acknowledging how much they were damaging these people they had promised jobs to- then I would at least feel that they are stand up kind of people.

Clearly they are anything but honest.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby rad lulz » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:21 pm

NYstate wrote:They are telling people that they no offered a huge part of the class because too many people accepted their offers? They are so full of shit.
"We only had to ruin these kids careers because we are so popular. Not our fault, really."
The truth is that their summers had other offers at firms that hired everyone. If, instead of trusting Winston, they had gone with other firms, they would be making big law money instead of fighting to pay for the bar and rent.

Winston did absolutely nothing to help the no offered associates. Even during the recession firms tried to defer people instead of cutting them lose completely with no hope of a career.

I would never trust what these people tell you. You have to protect your career. They are clearly dishonest.

If they had no offered people but pounded the pavement or made calls for them, or done something acknowledging how much they were damaging these people they had promised jobs to- then I would at least feel that they are stand up kind of people.

Clearly they are anything but honest.

+1

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:19 pm

Chi SA here, just received offer, will update when we know totals

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:53 pm

100% offers

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby manofjustice » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:59 pm

NYstate wrote:They are telling people that they no offered a huge part of the class because too many people accepted their offers? They are so full of shit.
"We only had to ruin these kids careers because we are so popular. Not our fault, really."
The truth is that their summers had other offers at firms that hired everyone. If, instead of trusting Winston, they had gone with other firms, they would be making big law money instead of fighting to pay for the bar and rent.

Winston did absolutely nothing to help the no offered associates. Even during the recession firms tried to defer people instead of cutting them lose completely with no hope of a career.

I would never trust what these people tell you. You have to protect your career. They are clearly dishonest.

If they had no offered people but pounded the pavement or made calls for them, or done something acknowledging how much they were damaging these people they had promised jobs to- then I would at least feel that they are stand up kind of people.

Clearly they are anything but honest.


If these people had other offers, then by taking Winston's offer, they opened up a spot in BigLaw for someone else who wouldn't have had one. Yes, they got no-offered at the end of the summer and are out on the streets. But if they hadn't taken Winston's offer, someone else would be out on the streets in their place. Too bad, so sad. If you want to play the game, live with the outcome.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby BullShitWithBravado » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:100% offers


All offices?

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby Icculus » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:33 am

manofjustice wrote:
NYstate wrote:They are telling people that they no offered a huge part of the class because too many people accepted their offers? They are so full of shit.
"We only had to ruin these kids careers because we are so popular. Not our fault, really."
The truth is that their summers had other offers at firms that hired everyone. If, instead of trusting Winston, they had gone with other firms, they would be making big law money instead of fighting to pay for the bar and rent.

Winston did absolutely nothing to help the no offered associates. Even during the recession firms tried to defer people instead of cutting them lose completely with no hope of a career.

I would never trust what these people tell you. You have to protect your career. They are clearly dishonest.

If they had no offered people but pounded the pavement or made calls for them, or done something acknowledging how much they were damaging these people they had promised jobs to- then I would at least feel that they are stand up kind of people.

Clearly they are anything but honest.


If these people had other offers, then by taking Winston's offer, they opened up a spot in BigLaw for someone else who wouldn't have had one. Yes, they got no-offered at the end of the summer and are out on the streets. But if they hadn't taken Winston's offer, someone else would be out on the streets in their place. Too bad, so sad. If you want to play the game, live with the outcome.


Are you fucking serious? This is such a bullshit response from someone who hasn't had the OCI experience yet. GTFO.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby manofjustice » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:26 pm

I have had the OCI experience and I am serious, ass hole. Stop pretending that Winston & Strawn owes you something but not all the other people who are hurting ITE. You think that by getting offers you turned into a special snowflake so that all the other people deserve to hurt but you don't? You applied to BigLaw for $$$. BigLaw is about making $$$ for partners. You knew all this. You had to go to make partners more $$$. Do you think this is a fucking charity? NYState actually thinks Winston & Strawn needs to "hit the pavement" for these people? How about they hit the pavement for the lines of unemployed, qualified graduates on the street first who never even had a chance.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:47 pm

manofjustice wrote:I have had the OCI experience and I am serious, ass hole. Stop pretending that Winston & Strawn owes you something but not all the other people who are hurting ITE. You think that by getting offers you turned into a special snowflake so that all the other people deserve to hurt but you don't? You applied to BigLaw for $$$. BigLaw is about making $$$ for partners. You knew all this. You had to go to make partners more $$$. Do you think this is a fucking charity? NYState actually thinks Winston & Strawn needs to "hit the pavement" for these people? How about they hit the pavement for the lines of unemployed, qualified graduates on the street first who never even had a chance.

If you can't tell the difference between (i) a person's reliance on statements that he will be employed until it's far too late to salvage any meaningful hope at pursuing the type of career he had multiple opportunities of pursuing and (ii) a person knowing that he needs to actively search for a job while that career remains a possibility, I'm just not sure what to tell you.

Also, the "You guys should get tougher skin because I understand the name of the game and you guys need to grow up and stop complaining" shtick is just silly. Sure, Winston is welcome to no-offer a bunch of their summer class and wish them well by providing little to no career outplacement support. In the same vein, though, law students are welcome to talk about how other students should avoid a firm like that unless they have absolutely no other options. It's an incredibly shitty situation to find yourself in as a rising 3L post-SA, and a firm that knowingly puts students in that situation, one that the firm knows full well can be devastating to one's career, will earn that reputation. Quit defending them out of some bullshit sense of free market grandstanding.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby RodneyRuxin » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:49 pm

manofjustice wrote:I have had the OCI experience and I am serious, ass hole. Stop pretending that Winston & Strawn owes you something but not all the other people who are hurting ITE. You think that by getting offers you turned into a special snowflake so that all the other people deserve to hurt but you don't? You applied to BigLaw for $$$. BigLaw is about making $$$ for partners. You knew all this. You had to go to make partners more $$$. Do you think this is a fucking charity? NYState actually thinks Winston & Strawn needs to "hit the pavement" for these people? How about they hit the pavement for the lines of unemployed, qualified graduates on the street first who never even had a chance.


Winston doesn't have to hit the pavement for qualified no offered summers, but law students with multiple offers will shy away from them and go to firms where they know they are being taken care of. At the end of the day, they're hurting themselves, as well as the undeserving SAs.

Edit: scooped. +1 to all the above.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:52 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
manofjustice wrote:I have had the OCI experience and I am serious, ass hole. Stop pretending that Winston & Strawn owes you something but not all the other people who are hurting ITE. You think that by getting offers you turned into a special snowflake so that all the other people deserve to hurt but you don't? You applied to BigLaw for $$$. BigLaw is about making $$$ for partners. You knew all this. You had to go to make partners more $$$. Do you think this is a fucking charity? NYState actually thinks Winston & Strawn needs to "hit the pavement" for these people? How about they hit the pavement for the lines of unemployed, qualified graduates on the street first who never even had a chance.

If you can't tell the difference between (i) a person's reliance on statements that he will be employed until it's far too late to salvage any meaningful hope at pursuing the type of career he had multiple opportunities of pursuing and (ii) a person knowing that he needs to actively search for a job while that career remains a possibility, I'm just not sure what to tell you.

Also, the "You guys should get tougher skin because I understand the name of the game and you guys need to grow up and stop complaining" shtick is just silly. Sure, Winston is welcome to no-offer a bunch of their summer class and wish them well by providing little to no career outplacement support. In the same vein, though, law students are welcome to talk about how other students should avoid a firm like that unless they have absolutely no other options. It's an incredibly shitty situation to find yourself in as a rising 3L post-SA, and a firm that knowingly puts students in that situation, one that the firm knows full well can be devastating to one's career, will earn that reputation. Quit defending them out of some bullshit sense of free market grandstanding.


I am not defending W&S. I am just pissed at the comment from NYState that W&S needed to "hit the pavement."

Look, it's one summer. You suffered no reliance damages that were not fungible. As I explained, you suffered, but that suffering did not add to the total suffering of you and your fellow law students. It just shifted it. (So long as those suffering had other offers they gave up.) You are right where the others would be. (Except you made a cool 30 grand during the summer.) So, no. I don't have an ounce more sympathy for you than for the other students--no less either.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:57 pm

Winston Callback - can't wait because the people I met with were incredibly nice and we had a great conversation.

You people are very silly. Calm down and callback.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby Icculus » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:
manofjustice wrote:I have had the OCI experience and I am serious, ass hole. Stop pretending that Winston & Strawn owes you something but not all the other people who are hurting ITE. You think that by getting offers you turned into a special snowflake so that all the other people deserve to hurt but you don't? You applied to BigLaw for $$$. BigLaw is about making $$$ for partners. You knew all this. You had to go to make partners more $$$. Do you think this is a fucking charity? NYState actually thinks Winston & Strawn needs to "hit the pavement" for these people? How about they hit the pavement for the lines of unemployed, qualified graduates on the street first who never even had a chance.

If you can't tell the difference between (i) a person's reliance on statements that he will be employed until it's far too late to salvage any meaningful hope at pursuing the type of career he had multiple opportunities of pursuing and (ii) a person knowing that he needs to actively search for a job while that career remains a possibility, I'm just not sure what to tell you.

Also, the "You guys should get tougher skin because I understand the name of the game and you guys need to grow up and stop complaining" shtick is just silly. Sure, Winston is welcome to no-offer a bunch of their summer class and wish them well by providing little to no career outplacement support. In the same vein, though, law students are welcome to talk about how other students should avoid a firm like that unless they have absolutely no other options. It's an incredibly shitty situation to find yourself in as a rising 3L post-SA, and a firm that knowingly puts students in that situation, one that the firm knows full well can be devastating to one's career, will earn that reputation. Quit defending them out of some bullshit sense of free market grandstanding.


I am not defending W&S. I am just pissed at the comment from NYState that W&S needed to "hit the pavement."

Look, it's one summer. You suffered no reliance damages that were not fungible. As I explained, you suffered, but that suffering did not add to the total suffering of you and your fellow law students. It just shifted it. (So long as those suffering had other offers they gave up.) You are right where the others would be. (Except you made a cool 30 grand during the summer.) So, no. I don't have an ounce more sympathy for you than for the other students--no less either.


The problem is the firm told people with other offers at firms that did make 100% offers that they had nothing to worry about and would get offers. Then they no offered like 25% of the class. Winston doesn't owe people a job, but the fact they knowingly mislead people about offers is totally bullshit and the sympathy is because these people could have gone elsewhere for the most part. And while pounding the pavement may be extreme if it is truly economic the place should try and help out the group is screwed.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Winston Callback - can't wait because the people I met with were incredibly nice and we had a great conversation.

You people are very silly. Calm down and callback.


Hello Winston & Strawn. You're welcome to post non-annon under your Winston&Strawn2015 handle. Tell me. What is the atmosphere like at Winston & Strawn. Collegial? You don't say. Non-competitive? Why sign me up. Also, please explain how assignments are given out.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:
manofjustice wrote:I have had the OCI experience and I am serious, ass hole. Stop pretending that Winston & Strawn owes you something but not all the other people who are hurting ITE. You think that by getting offers you turned into a special snowflake so that all the other people deserve to hurt but you don't? You applied to BigLaw for $$$. BigLaw is about making $$$ for partners. You knew all this. You had to go to make partners more $$$. Do you think this is a fucking charity? NYState actually thinks Winston & Strawn needs to "hit the pavement" for these people? How about they hit the pavement for the lines of unemployed, qualified graduates on the street first who never even had a chance.

If you can't tell the difference between (i) a person's reliance on statements that he will be employed until it's far too late to salvage any meaningful hope at pursuing the type of career he had multiple opportunities of pursuing and (ii) a person knowing that he needs to actively search for a job while that career remains a possibility, I'm just not sure what to tell you.

Also, the "You guys should get tougher skin because I understand the name of the game and you guys need to grow up and stop complaining" shtick is just silly. Sure, Winston is welcome to no-offer a bunch of their summer class and wish them well by providing little to no career outplacement support. In the same vein, though, law students are welcome to talk about how other students should avoid a firm like that unless they have absolutely no other options. It's an incredibly shitty situation to find yourself in as a rising 3L post-SA, and a firm that knowingly puts students in that situation, one that the firm knows full well can be devastating to one's career, will earn that reputation. Quit defending them out of some bullshit sense of free market grandstanding.


I am not defending W&S. I am just pissed at the comment from NYState that W&S needed to "hit the pavement."

Look, it's one summer. You suffered no reliance damages that were not fungible. As I explained, you suffered, but that suffering did not add to the total suffering of you and your fellow law students. It just shifted it. (So long as those suffering had other offers they gave up.) You are right where the others would be. (Except you made a cool 30 grand during the summer.) So, no. I don't have an ounce more sympathy for you than for the other students--no less either.

This goes to my first point, though. Unless you're willing to say that it's all a zero sum game such that every biglaw firm could fire every single employee tomorrow and whogivesafuckbecausesomeoneelsewilltakethejobamiriteguys?, then it does put those certain individuals at a disadvantage who had presumably worked hard their entire life and achieved the level of credentials that would allow them to pursue this type of practice. That person would possibly be facing completely different outcomes if (i) he was told at the outset that they'd accepted a large number of offers and it might be wise to pursue another opportunity, (ii) the firm explained at the beginning of the summer that it wasn't sure if would be able to absorb all of the summers and they would encourage networking with other possible post-summer leads, or (iii) the firm decided to absorb the costs of its hiring mistake over a significantly large number of partners instead of transferring them to a select few individuals in a manner that was much more detrimental to their careers than it would be to the partners' bottom line.

The reality is, though, that other firms did do (iii) quite a bit during the recession. Not all, but several of them didn't latham or no offer students right out the gate and at least gave them a couple years to develop before initiating forced attrition with at least a stint at a quality firm on their resume, instead of branding them immediately like damaged goods. And to the extent that other firms were willing to eat into their PPP slightly to avoid these mass firings, that substantially undercuts the zero sum argument you seem to be making.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:12 pm

Icculus wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:
manofjustice wrote:I have had the OCI experience and I am serious, ass hole. Stop pretending that Winston & Strawn owes you something but not all the other people who are hurting ITE. You think that by getting offers you turned into a special snowflake so that all the other people deserve to hurt but you don't? You applied to BigLaw for $$$. BigLaw is about making $$$ for partners. You knew all this. You had to go to make partners more $$$. Do you think this is a fucking charity? NYState actually thinks Winston & Strawn needs to "hit the pavement" for these people? How about they hit the pavement for the lines of unemployed, qualified graduates on the street first who never even had a chance.

If you can't tell the difference between (i) a person's reliance on statements that he will be employed until it's far too late to salvage any meaningful hope at pursuing the type of career he had multiple opportunities of pursuing and (ii) a person knowing that he needs to actively search for a job while that career remains a possibility, I'm just not sure what to tell you.

Also, the "You guys should get tougher skin because I understand the name of the game and you guys need to grow up and stop complaining" shtick is just silly. Sure, Winston is welcome to no-offer a bunch of their summer class and wish them well by providing little to no career outplacement support. In the same vein, though, law students are welcome to talk about how other students should avoid a firm like that unless they have absolutely no other options. It's an incredibly shitty situation to find yourself in as a rising 3L post-SA, and a firm that knowingly puts students in that situation, one that the firm knows full well can be devastating to one's career, will earn that reputation. Quit defending them out of some bullshit sense of free market grandstanding.


I am not defending W&S. I am just pissed at the comment from NYState that W&S needed to "hit the pavement."

Look, it's one summer. You suffered no reliance damages that were not fungible. As I explained, you suffered, but that suffering did not add to the total suffering of you and your fellow law students. It just shifted it. (So long as those suffering had other offers they gave up.) You are right where the others would be. (Except you made a cool 30 grand during the summer.) So, no. I don't have an ounce more sympathy for you than for the other students--no less either.


The problem is the firm told people with other offers at firms that did make 100% offers that they had nothing to worry about and would get offers. Then they no offered like 25% of the class. Winston doesn't owe people a job, but the fact they knowingly mislead people about offers is totally bullshit and the sympathy is because these people could have gone elsewhere for the most part. And while pounding the pavement may be extreme if it is truly economic the place should try and help out the group is screwed.


Again, we're not communicating. I know they could have gotten jobs at other places. That's the point. By taking Winston's offer, they declined their other offers, and opened up spots in BigLaw for people who wouldn't have had one otherwise.

You essentially struck out of OCI. Nothing very magical happened in the extra three months during which you summered, except that you did great work (like anybody could do). If Winston knew that their summer class size needed to be smaller when they OCI'd, they just would have just refused to call you back back. It's a timing issue, no more. You struck out.

Come to grips with the fact that your getting the Winston offer in the first place involved some luck. And on the back-end, you got unlucky.

edit: MoJ...accidental annon.

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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby manofjustice » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:16 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:
manofjustice wrote:I have had the OCI experience and I am serious, ass hole. Stop pretending that Winston & Strawn owes you something but not all the other people who are hurting ITE. You think that by getting offers you turned into a special snowflake so that all the other people deserve to hurt but you don't? You applied to BigLaw for $$$. BigLaw is about making $$$ for partners. You knew all this. You had to go to make partners more $$$. Do you think this is a fucking charity? NYState actually thinks Winston & Strawn needs to "hit the pavement" for these people? How about they hit the pavement for the lines of unemployed, qualified graduates on the street first who never even had a chance.

If you can't tell the difference between (i) a person's reliance on statements that he will be employed until it's far too late to salvage any meaningful hope at pursuing the type of career he had multiple opportunities of pursuing and (ii) a person knowing that he needs to actively search for a job while that career remains a possibility, I'm just not sure what to tell you.

Also, the "You guys should get tougher skin because I understand the name of the game and you guys need to grow up and stop complaining" shtick is just silly. Sure, Winston is welcome to no-offer a bunch of their summer class and wish them well by providing little to no career outplacement support. In the same vein, though, law students are welcome to talk about how other students should avoid a firm like that unless they have absolutely no other options. It's an incredibly shitty situation to find yourself in as a rising 3L post-SA, and a firm that knowingly puts students in that situation, one that the firm knows full well can be devastating to one's career, will earn that reputation. Quit defending them out of some bullshit sense of free market grandstanding.


I am not defending W&S. I am just pissed at the comment from NYState that W&S needed to "hit the pavement."

Look, it's one summer. You suffered no reliance damages that were not fungible. As I explained, you suffered, but that suffering did not add to the total suffering of you and your fellow law students. It just shifted it. (So long as those suffering had other offers they gave up.) You are right where the others would be. (Except you made a cool 30 grand during the summer.) So, no. I don't have an ounce more sympathy for you than for the other students--no less either.

This goes to my first point, though. Unless you're willing to say that it's all a zero sum game such that every biglaw firm could fire every single employee tomorrow and whogivesafuckbecausesomeoneelsewilltakethejobamiriteguys?, then it does put those certain individuals at a disadvantage who had presumably worked hard their entire life and achieved the level of credentials that would allow them to pursue this type of practice. That person would possibly be facing completely different outcomes if (i) he was told at the outset that they'd accepted a large number of offers and it might be wise to pursue another opportunity, (ii) the firm explained at the beginning of the summer that it wasn't sure if would be able to absorb all of the summers and they would encourage networking with other possible post-summer leads, or (iii) the firm decided to absorb the costs of its hiring mistake over a significantly large number of partners instead of transferring them to a select few individuals in a manner that was much more detrimental to their careers than it would be to the partners' bottom line.

The reality is, though, that other firms did do (iii) quite a bit during the recession. Not all, but several of them didn't latham or no offer students right out the gate and at least gave them a couple years to develop before initiating forced attrition with at least a stint at a quality firm on their resume, instead of branding them immediately like damaged goods. And to the extent that other firms were willing to eat into their PPP slightly to avoid these mass firings, that substantially undercuts the zero sum argument you seem to be making.


See my post above. In fat times, you could claim that everyone who didn't get BigLaw the first time must be unqualified or must not have worked hard enough. You can't say that now.

You got lucky getting the offer--then you got unlucky.

All your other points make all sorts of assumptions. And point (iii) is ludicrous. You literally are asking for a severance package when, as a summer, you have never done anything that mattered for the firm's partners. That's worse than "these guys needed to have hit the pavement for me."

edit: if with (iii) you're asking to be brought on even though they don't have the work for you--that just shuts out future students. Seems to be happening now at OCI.

09042014
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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby 09042014 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:19 pm

And if they really "just didn't have room" they could have given differed offers like firms did in 2009 and 10.

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manofjustice
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Re: Winston & Strawn offer rate

Postby manofjustice » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:21 pm

Desert Fox wrote:And if they really "just didn't have room" they could have given differed offers like firms did in 2009 and 10.


Well you don't know that. Maybe some shitboomer partner fucked up a case while all the future Winston summers were studying evidence and they lost ten million in yearly billings.




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