Winston & Strawn offer rate Forum

[Morgan12Oak]

To be fair,

The people arguing in this thread all sound like insufferable pricks. In some odd cuckold-fashioned version of measuring dicks, you're trying to measure who has gotten fucked over more. It's hard to imagine reading a thread with more self-entitlement then this. At worst the people in this thread have been no offered and are in debt and without a job. If you think your life is bad because of that, you're no better than the shitboomers you constantly rail against. You're not being drafted, you're not cleaning toilets, you have a professional degree from a reasonable institution (if you don't, then that's your own fault), and you have debt without a job but there's avenues that are still open for you to live a respectable long healthy life. In the world of haves and have-nots, graduating from a law school with debt and no job is far from the have-nots.

Literally, the reason why you have so many law graduates without jobs these days is because people get so self-entitled and say hey, I'm better than that auto mechanic or better than that retail manager so I'm going to become a professional and get my law degree! The problem is, there are people entrepreneurial enough to take advantage of peoples egos.

It's sad but we went from the Greatest Generation to the Baby Boomer generation to the Generation that blames all of their problems on the last. I'm just happy most of the Greatest Generation isn't around to see what we've become.

Perhaps the legal economy would be better if lawyers went out of their way to lend a helping hand and to help each other. But based on arguments and seeing threads like these, Its hard to fathom a reason why lawyers would want to help each other.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I'm sure people cleaning toilets do win the gold medal in the whose-problems-are-worse Olympics, but since this is a forum for law students to discuss legal employment, it's understood that that's the context being discussed. Just because there are people who are far worse off doesn't mean that facing the prospect of unemployment with significant debt isn't daunting or that people aren't allowed to be upset about it.

[FlightoftheEarls]

To be fair,

The people arguing in this thread all sound like insufferable pricks. In some odd cuckold-fashioned version of measuring dicks, you're trying to measure who has gotten fucked over more. It's hard to imagine reading a thread with more self-entitlement then this. At worst the people in this thread have been no offered and are in debt and without a job.

I'm not entirely sure who this is directed towards, but my involvement in this thread was only to state that (i) law students should be discussing prior employment outcomes at specific firms, and (ii) to the extent it became necessary to discuss it, attempt to explain the hiring realities for a no-offered student vs. an OCI strike out. As far as I know, I don't think anybody here is measuring dicks based on who has personally been fucked over more, although I can't speak to which posters are writing based on personal experience vs. simple familiarity with the hiring process from seeing it on both sides (like myself).

[rad lulz]

.

[unc0mm0n1]

To be fair,

The people arguing in this thread all sound like insufferable pricks. In some odd cuckold-fashioned version of measuring dicks, you're trying to measure who has gotten fucked over more. It's hard to imagine reading a thread with more self-entitlement then this. At worst the people in this thread have been no offered and are in debt and without a job. If you think your life is bad because of that, you're no better than the shitboomers you constantly rail against. You're not being drafted, you're not cleaning toilets, you have a professional degree from a reasonable institution (if you don't, then that's your own fault), and you have debt without a job but there's avenues that are still open for you to live a respectable long healthy life. In the world of haves and have-nots, graduating from a law school with debt and no job is far from the have-nots.

Literally, the reason why you have so many law graduates without jobs these days is because people get so self-entitled and say hey, I'm better than that auto mechanic or better than that retail manager so I'm going to become a professional and get my law degree! The problem is, there are people entrepreneurial enough to take advantage of peoples egos.

It's sad but we went from the Greatest Generation to the Baby Boomer generation to the Generation that blames all of their problems on the last. I'm just happy most of the Greatest Generation isn't around to see what we've become.

Perhaps the legal economy would be better if lawyers went out of their way to lend a helping hand and to help each other. But based on arguments and seeing threads like these, Its hard to fathom a reason why lawyers would want to help each other.

1) literally no one except MoJ is trying to make this into a "who had it worse"

2) you're a dumbass

I whole heartedly agree with point number 2. The greatest generation defined by blatant racism, sexism and imperialism. Not saying they didn't do some awesome things but everything wasn't peachy in the 40s and 50s either especially if you weren't a white man with cash.

[Ludo!]

I didn't get no offered by Winston but I know a couple people that did and cleaning toilets is pretty similar to where they are working right now

[Anonymous User]

The ignorance exhibited by MoJ in this thread is legendary. A+ trolling or D- LR skills, can't tell which.

[rickgrimes69]

The ignorance exhibited by MoJ in this thread is legendary. A+ trolling or D- LR skills, can't tell which.

Accidental anon

[manofjustice]

The ignorance exhibited by MoJ in this thread is legendary. A+ trolling or D- LR skills, can't tell which.

Accidental anon

No. I'm right. You...don't know what you're talking about. Apparently you "can't tell which..."...and I think you're referring to your ass from your face.

[Anonymous User]

SF got 100% offers.

[Anonymous User]

To be fair,

The people arguing in this thread all sound like insufferable pricks. In some odd cuckold-fashioned version of measuring dicks, you're trying to measure who has gotten fucked over more. It's hard to imagine reading a thread with more self-entitlement then this. At worst the people in this thread have been no offered and are in debt and without a job. If you think your life is bad because of that, you're no better than the shitboomers you constantly rail against. You're not being drafted, you're not cleaning toilets, you have a professional degree from a reasonable institution (if you don't, then that's your own fault), and you have debt without a job but there's avenues that are still open for you to live a respectable long healthy life. In the world of haves and have-nots, graduating from a law school with debt and no job is far from the have-nots.

Literally, the reason why you have so many law graduates without jobs these days is because people get so self-entitled and say hey, I'm better than that auto mechanic or better than that retail manager so I'm going to become a professional and get my law degree! The problem is, there are people entrepreneurial enough to take advantage of peoples egos.

It's sad but we went from the Greatest Generation to the Baby Boomer generation to the Generation that blames all of their problems on the last. I'm just happy most of the Greatest Generation isn't around to see what we've become.

Perhaps the legal economy would be better if lawyers went out of their way to lend a helping hand and to help each other. But based on arguments and seeing threads like these, Its hard to fathom a reason why lawyers would want to help each other.

As someone born and who has lived in countries of have-nots, graduating with 200k in debt + no job is a pretty bad deal unless we insert into the equation countries where there is disease, war or hunger. I mean lack of jobs is primarily the reason why people protest in places like Greece, and even in poorer places in the middle east. It is not something to be ignored as a rich people's problem.

[Anonymous User]

Getting back to the original point of this thread, it looks like Winston & Strawn is back on track offer-wise after a bad year last year. Per the posters on here, the Chicago office and the San Francisco office both had 100% offer rates this summer. Any news from the other offices?

[manofjustice]

To be fair,

The people arguing in this thread all sound like insufferable pricks. In some odd cuckold-fashioned version of measuring dicks, you're trying to measure who has gotten fucked over more. It's hard to imagine reading a thread with more self-entitlement then this. At worst the people in this thread have been no offered and are in debt and without a job. If you think your life is bad because of that, you're no better than the shitboomers you constantly rail against. You're not being drafted, you're not cleaning toilets, you have a professional degree from a reasonable institution (if you don't, then that's your own fault), and you have debt without a job but there's avenues that are still open for you to live a respectable long healthy life. In the world of haves and have-nots, graduating from a law school with debt and no job is far from the have-nots.

Literally, the reason why you have so many law graduates without jobs these days is because people get so self-entitled and say hey, I'm better than that auto mechanic or better than that retail manager so I'm going to become a professional and get my law degree! The problem is, there are people entrepreneurial enough to take advantage of peoples egos.

It's sad but we went from the Greatest Generation to the Baby Boomer generation to the Generation that blames all of their problems on the last. I'm just happy most of the Greatest Generation isn't around to see what we've become.

Perhaps the legal economy would be better if lawyers went out of their way to lend a helping hand and to help each other. But based on arguments and seeing threads like these, Its hard to fathom a reason why lawyers would want to help each other.

As someone born and who has lived in countries of have-nots, graduating with 200k in debt + no job is a pretty bad deal unless we insert into the equation countries where there is disease, war or hunger. I mean lack of jobs is primarily the reason why people protest in places like Greece, and even in poorer places in the middle east. It is not something to be ignored as a rich people's problem.

That's a great point. There isn't much reason to suppose that America is immune to the kind of protests in Greece. If this country can't find a way to sustain a middle class, there will be hell to pay.

[manofjustice]

Getting back to the original point of this thread, it looks like Winston & Strawn is back on track offer-wise after a bad year last year. Per the posters on here, the Chicago office and the San Francisco office both had 100% offer rates this summer. Any news from the other offices?

Yea but if the no-offer story at W&S is true, the damage is already done. It's easy to give 100% offers when you have some extra cash and the pressure is on. Firms deserve credit only when they take care of their own in the lean times. It just speaks to the culture of the partnership at the firm.

[Anonymous User]

The people who have posted most on this forum were personally affected by a bad year at Winston (I am guessing... Otherwise they clearly enjoy stirring the pot). To all the people out there with callbacks, I would hate for the extreme tangent this thread has taken to completely dissuade you from considering a firm that might be a good fit.

I summered at Winston. I had a great experience. Everyone in my class has an offer to come back. You should absolutely bear in mind that two years ago Winston had a bad summer and no-offered a bunch of people. I can't comment on how they acted towards them because I wasn't there. Winston is a very fiscally conservative firm, and they made decisions in line with that philosophy. If you go for a callback, go in with your eyes wide open. But also know that the best people to give advice about where you choose to work might not be the people who had a bad experience there and who don't work there. Wait til you get an offer, and then ask to speak with some young associates before you make a decision. They have no skin in the game (in terms of whether you join the firm or not) and will probably give you pretty straight answers about how happy they are at the firm. Winston won't be the right fit for everyone (no firm is), but dO what you can to make an educated decision.

[Ludo!]

The people who have posted most on this forum were personally affected by a bad year at Winston (I am guessing... Otherwise they clearly enjoy stirring the pot). To all the people out there with callbacks, I would hate for the extreme tangent this thread has taken to completely dissuade you from considering a firm that might be a good fit.

I summered at Winston. I had a great experience. Everyone in my class has an offer to come back. You should absolutely bear in mind that two years ago Winston had a bad summer and no-offered a bunch of people. I can't comment on how they acted towards them because I wasn't there. Winston is a very fiscally conservative firm, and they made decisions in line with that philosophy. If you go for a callback, go in with your eyes wide open. But also know that the best people to give advice about where you choose to work might not be the people who had a bad experience there and who don't work there. Wait til you get an offer, and then ask to speak with some young associates before you make a decision. They have no skin in the game (in terms of whether you join the firm or not) and will probably give you pretty straight answers about how happy they are at the firm. Winston won't be the right fit for everyone (no firm is), but dO what you can to make an educated decision.

I wasn't personally affected by what they did at all but it was really fucking shitty

[NYstate]

The people who have posted most on this forum were personally affected by a bad year at Winston (I am guessing... Otherwise they clearly enjoy stirring the pot). To all the people out there with callbacks, I would hate for the extreme tangent this thread has taken to completely dissuade you from considering a firm that might be a good fit.

I summered at Winston. I had a great experience. Everyone in my class has an offer to come back. You should absolutely bear in mind that two years ago Winston had a bad summer and no-offered a bunch of people. I can't comment on how they acted towards them because I wasn't there. Winston is a very fiscally conservative firm, and they made decisions in line with that philosophy. If you go for a callback, go in with your eyes wide open. But also know that the best people to give advice about where you choose to work might not be the people who had a bad experience there and who don't work there. Wait til you get an offer, and then ask to speak with some young associates before you make a decision. They have no skin in the game (in terms of whether you join the firm or not) and will probably give you pretty straight answers about how happy they are at the firm. Winston won't be the right fit for everyone (no firm is), but dO what you can to make an educated decision.

I don't have to be personally affected to know when a firm lies they aren't trustworthy. You have an axe to grind because you want to believe the firm is wonderful. ( Having a great summer doesnt mean much, the no offered people had a good summer too.)

I am warning people not to work there if they have other options. Given the firms behavior that is perfectly reasonable.

By the way, fiscally conservative doesn't mean throwing people out into the street with no job and lying about what happened. They are claiming that they had too high of a yield they never said they no offered a large percentage of the class for financial reasons.

I said earlier- during the height of the recession firms tried to find other ways to deal with summers they couldn't afford. This firm doesn't want to look like they can't afford to hire all their summers. So they just no offered them.

I wouldn't trust them unless I had no other choice. Maybe now they have a class more in line with their actual shaky finances, they won't need to no offer people.

You don't have to be personally affected to want to warn people about a firm that acted so far outside the norm for its peers.

Edit: you don't know me and I don't appreciate your considering my advice as " stirring the pot." OP asked about the no offers because they are outside the norm. My advice is based on what Winston did and what they are claiming happened.
Also, I have seen what getting Lathamed or no offered does to people and their careers. The job market is horrible. Most people struggle to find other work. Some are out of law completely, at least for the short term, even from top schools. A no offer is not something people should risk if they can avoid it. All Winston had to do was not promise offers and people who had options would have gone elsewhere. Maybe that is why I am so forceful about my opinion. Read some of the Vale thread and see how hard it is to be no offered and graduate with no job.

[Anonymous User]

The people who have posted most on this forum were personally affected by a bad year at Winston (I am guessing... Otherwise they clearly enjoy stirring the pot). To all the people out there with callbacks, I would hate for the extreme tangent this thread has taken to completely dissuade you from considering a firm that might be a good fit.

I summered at Winston. I had a great experience. Everyone in my class has an offer to come back. You should absolutely bear in mind that two years ago Winston had a bad summer and no-offered a bunch of people. I can't comment on how they acted towards them because I wasn't there. Winston is a very fiscally conservative firm, and they made decisions in line with that philosophy. If you go for a callback, go in with your eyes wide open. But also know that the best people to give advice about where you choose to work might not be the people who had a bad experience there and who don't work there. Wait til you get an offer, and then ask to speak with some young associates before you make a decision. They have no skin in the game (in terms of whether you join the firm or not) and will probably give you pretty straight answers about how happy they are at the firm. Winston won't be the right fit for everyone (no firm is), but dO what you can to make an educated decision.

Any tips for those going on callbacks? i.e.: things to do/say that will mesh with the culture so they'd get an offer?

[Anonymous User]

Any tips for those going on callbacks? i.e.: things to do/say that will mesh with the culture so they'd get an offer?

I had a callback a few days ago, and my interviewers were surprisingly open about their past difficulties with layoffs/no offers. I was a little taken aback, but I'm glad they owned up to it and seem to be dedicated to getting back on track

[ejlions84]

Ignoring the first 5 pages of discussion, has anyone with a CB from the WS chicago office heard anything positive or negative yet?

[Anonymous User]

I had a CB earlier this week. No news yet. Waiting sucks.

[ejlions84]

I had a CB earlier this week. No news yet. Waiting sucks.

Seriously...I've gotten angry with my phone a couple of times this week for not ringing. I'm about to call AT&T just to vent about the lack of calls

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw worth they tems to be deliberate about these thinhs, I got my offer last year about two weeks after my cb

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw worth they tems to be deliberate about these thinhs, I got my offer last year about two weeks after my cb

I just got an offer today after a CB early last week

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw worth they tems to be deliberate about these thinhs, I got my offer last year about two weeks after my cb

I just got an offer today after a CB early last week

Congrats