No news from mass mail

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RodneyRuxin
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Re: No news from mass mail

Postby RodneyRuxin » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:38 pm

I think the biggest problem ITT is mass mailing.

Targeted mailing is just infinitely better. Take time to write cover letters. Make them unique to the firm. Talk about why you want to work there.

The chances are still low, but at least they exist.

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bk1
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Re: No news from mass mail

Postby bk1 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:55 pm

RodneyRuxin wrote:I think the biggest problem ITT is mass mailing.

Targeted mailing is just infinitely better. Take time to write cover letters. Make them unique to the firm. Talk about why you want to work there.

The chances are still low, but at least they exist.

Of course. But you should be doing this to a mass amount of firms.

RodneyRuxin
Posts: 455
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Re: No news from mass mail

Postby RodneyRuxin » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:57 pm

bk1 wrote:
RodneyRuxin wrote:I think the biggest problem ITT is mass mailing.

Targeted mailing is just infinitely better. Take time to write cover letters. Make them unique to the firm. Talk about why you want to work there.

The chances are still low, but at least they exist.

Of course. But you should be doing this to a mass amount of firms.


Yeah absolutely. I just worry that people use mail merge too often and think they're being productive sending out 300 applications. I'd rather send out 30 good ones than waste 300 envelopes on mail-merged crap.

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bk1
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Re: No news from mass mail

Postby bk1 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:59 pm

RodneyRuxin wrote:
bk1 wrote:
RodneyRuxin wrote:I think the biggest problem ITT is mass mailing.

Targeted mailing is just infinitely better. Take time to write cover letters. Make them unique to the firm. Talk about why you want to work there.

The chances are still low, but at least they exist.

Of course. But you should be doing this to a mass amount of firms.


Yeah absolutely. I just worry that people use mail merge too often and think they're being productive sending out 300 applications. I'd rather send out 30 good ones than waste 300 envelopes on mail-merged crap.

The sad truth is that people are likely fucking up on both ends, applying to too few firms and not making the ones they do send personalized enough.

guyplus
Posts: 48
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Re: No news from mass mail

Postby guyplus » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:11 pm

bk1 wrote:
RodneyRuxin wrote:
bk1 wrote:
RodneyRuxin wrote:I think the biggest problem ITT is mass mailing.

Targeted mailing is just infinitely better. Take time to write cover letters. Make them unique to the firm. Talk about why you want to work there.

The chances are still low, but at least they exist.

Of course. But you should be doing this to a mass amount of firms.


Yeah absolutely. I just worry that people use mail merge too often and think they're being productive sending out 300 applications. I'd rather send out 30 good ones than waste 300 envelopes on mail-merged crap.

The sad truth is that people are likely fucking up on both ends, applying to too few firms and not making the ones they do send personalized enough.


I fall into the "fucking up on both ends" category. I feel like I'm onto something with a mail merged Cover Letter and initial e-mail that should feel personalized. It's tailored to address the questions of 1) location fit, 2) practice area fit, & 3) firm size fit. If I have any extra points about meeting someone from the firm, etc. that gets put in there too. Is this enough personalization to catch, say, 10% of recuiter's eyes?

RodneyRuxin
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Re: No news from mass mail

Postby RodneyRuxin » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:17 pm

guyplus wrote:I fall into the "fucking up on both ends" category. I feel like I'm onto something with a mail merged Cover Letter and initial e-mail that should feel personalized. It's tailored to address the questions of 1) location fit, 2) practice area fit, & 3) firm size fit. If I have any extra points about meeting someone from the firm, etc. that gets put in there too. Is this enough personalization to catch, say, 10% of recuiter's eyes?



My anecdote:

I researched the firms I was applying to, put specific reasons why I wanted to work at those firms, and I've had a 3/10 success rate with one actual ding (got a few "under review" emails as well).

A successful targeted mailing can equal a callback. Put some work into it if you want to be successful. Especially if you're at median. Make sure your resume is error free and your cover letter is written well. Try to stand out rather than blend into the load of crappy generic letters they get all the time.

Realize what this is from a firm's perspective. Would you spend around $400(flight+hotel) and hours of atty time to fly someone in for a generic letter? You want them to think that you'd fit into the firm--and the best way to do that is by telling them what is unique about the firm that you appreciate. Bouncing off of that--make sure you bid firms in your target area--if you have the grades to place into a v50, don't waste your time on firms that haven't made the vault 100. They likely know you're going to get a better offer and they won't waste the money/time on you.

This is general advice, and obviously has exceptions. But I think this is a good way to prioritize.

guyplus
Posts: 48
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Re: No news from mass mail

Postby guyplus » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:03 am

RodneyRuxin wrote:
My anecdote:

I .... put specific reasons why I wanted to work at those firms, and I've had a 3/10 success rate with one actual ding (got a few "under review" emails as well).


Were there specific reasons other than location, firm size, and practice area fit that you used? My issue is that I'm having a hard time pinpointing anything other than these three reasons as a good cause to have a real interest in a firm. I've added in "early responsibility" in my non biglaw e-mails too.

potted plant
Posts: 96
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Re: No news from mass mail

Postby potted plant » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:03 am

RodneyRuxin wrote:
guyplus wrote:I fall into the "fucking up on both ends" category. I feel like I'm onto something with a mail merged Cover Letter and initial e-mail that should feel personalized. It's tailored to address the questions of 1) location fit, 2) practice area fit, & 3) firm size fit. If I have any extra points about meeting someone from the firm, etc. that gets put in there too. Is this enough personalization to catch, say, 10% of recuiter's eyes?



My anecdote:

I researched the firms I was applying to, put specific reasons why I wanted to work at those firms, and I've had a 3/10 success rate with one actual ding (got a few "under review" emails as well).

A successful targeted mailing can equal a callback. Put some work into it if you want to be successful. Especially if you're at median. Make sure your resume is error free and your cover letter is written well. Try to stand out rather than blend into the load of crappy generic letters they get all the time.

Realize what this is from a firm's perspective. Would you spend around $400(flight+hotel) and hours of atty time to fly someone in for a generic letter? You want them to think that you'd fit into the firm--and the best way to do that is by telling them what is unique about the firm that you appreciate. Bouncing off of that--make sure you bid firms in your target area--if you have the grades to place into a v50, don't waste your time on firms that haven't made the vault 100. They likely know you're going to get a better offer and they won't waste the money/time on you.

This is general advice, and obviously has exceptions. But I think this is a good way to prioritize.

I'm in a very similar situation. I only sent 9 mailers out. 8 were targeted and 1 was not. Of the 8 targeted mailings I have 3 interviews and 3 firms that have told me to send additional materials and have at least acknowledged my existence/application. Total silence from the other 2 and the 1 non-targeted mailer.

I picked the 9 firms that weren't coming to my OCI that I thought were a really good fit for me based on practice strengths, hiring grade criteria, location, culture, etc. I really worked on my resume and wrote cover-letters for each one. It took about a day and a half in total, so really not a huge time investment, though enough time that it wouldn't be possible to be that detailed with mailers for 300 firms. If I were to mail hundreds of firms I'd probably group them based on various shared characteristics, like practice strengths, and then write semi-targeted letters to the group. Meaning I'd write a form letter describing my own relevant background or interest in that specific area of law generally, use that as a base for all the letters, and then add minor individual touches for each firm.

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Jsa725
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Re: No news from mass mail

Postby Jsa725 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:40 am

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Last edited by Jsa725 on Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: No news from mass mail

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:07 pm

Gorki wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Median at T10. I sent out ~30 mass mailing but haven't heard anything from any of them. Thoughts?


That is a completely expected outcome. "Mass mailing" means MAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS mailing. Carpet bomb dem firms bro.

You need to realize that essentially what you are doing is blindly soliciting random people for employment. Even at "biglaw" firms, this may not lead to anything... I go to a much shittier school, and sent out WAAAY more in a tertiary market in a flyover state... I "failed" 2L OCI (got a jerb through symplicity later on), but needless to say I still found over 30 places.

If your T6, carpet bomb the top 250 firms dude. Do you come from a flyover state? Even those states have, in some form, a "big" firm that may be interested.

It is way too early to call it quits, keep hustlin'

Best of luck.


OP here. No, I'm not from a flyover state. The problem I'm having is that there are people who have never set foot in my home state trying to come here as well. How long does it usually take for you to hear back from a mass mail?

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bk1
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Re: No news from mass mail

Postby bk1 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. No, I'm not from a flyover state. The problem I'm having is that there are people who have never set foot in my home state trying to come here as well. How long does it usually take for you to hear back from a mass mail?

Stop focusing on the fact that there are other people competing with you for jobs you want. Put forth the best applications that you can no matter what other people are doing. Also, since you're median at a T14, if the market you are talking about is not NYC, your odds of getting that market aren't incredibly high.

RodneyRuxin
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:08 pm

Re: No news from mass mail

Postby RodneyRuxin » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:19 pm

bk1 wrote:Also, since you're median at a T14, if the market you are talking about is not NYC, your odds of getting that market aren't incredibly high.



This. Secondary markets are (generally) used to hiring from the tip-top of the class at regional schools. I've found my degree isn't as portable as I thought it would be.




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