Philly OCI 2013

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:06 pm

They probably like to wait until after Philly/NYC takes their pick, since a lot of people pick those markets over smaller secondaries like Wilmington.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:They probably like to wait until after Philly/NYC takes their pick, since a lot of people pick those markets over smaller secondaries like Wilmington.


Wilmington is not your average secondary market. I wouldn't say Philly is any more desirable(in fact it is probably less desirable) if you know you want corporate.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:They probably like to wait until after Philly/NYC takes their pick, since a lot of people pick those markets over smaller secondaries like Wilmington.


Wilmington is not your average secondary market. I wouldn't say Philly is any more desirable(in fact it is probably less desirable) if you know you want corporate.


ehh I'm not so sure. Dechart, Akin, Ballard, Morgan, Drinker...a lot of lead counsel in Philly.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:They probably like to wait until after Philly/NYC takes their pick, since a lot of people pick those markets over smaller secondaries like Wilmington.


Wilmington is not your average secondary market. I wouldn't say Philly is any more desirable(in fact it is probably less desirable) if you know you want corporate.


ehh I'm not so sure. Dechart, Akin, Ballard, Morgan, Drinker...a lot of lead counsel in Philly.


Maybe Dechert and Morgan, but I think there is a strong argument for one of the big four DE firms over Ballard/Drinker/Pepper/Blank. The Akin office is too small to count.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:45 pm

Has anybody heard anything from Pepper. I've only heard of one offer posted in this thread a couple weeks ago and I know abotu a couple CB dings from some friends at Penn, but I haven't heard about any offers/dings from students at Temple/Nova/Rutgers. Any clue why they're moving so slow?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Has anybody heard anything from Pepper. I've only heard of one offer posted in this thread a couple weeks ago and I know abotu a couple CB dings from some friends at Penn, but I haven't heard about any offers/dings from students at Temple/Nova/Rutgers. Any clue why they're moving so slow?


CB > ding here. I go to a non-Philly TT.

No news is definitely good news. I speculate that their SA class is going to be smaller than usual. During my CB the recruiter told me they were looking to have 18-22 SA's. But from the way she said it, I got the impression they are going to cut it back a bit.

On a related note, I know 2 people in this past summer's class - 1 is clerking, 1 is working for them right away. So that doesn't say much, but maybe a lot more people than usual are coming to work for them right away and as a result, the 2014 class will be smaller.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:They probably like to wait until after Philly/NYC takes their pick, since a lot of people pick those markets over smaller secondaries like Wilmington.


Wilmington is not your average secondary market. I wouldn't say Philly is any more desirable(in fact it is probably less desirable) if you know you want corporate.


ehh I'm not so sure. Dechart, Akin, Ballard, Morgan, Drinker...a lot of lead counsel in Philly.


Maybe Dechert and Morgan, but I think there is a strong argument for one of the big four DE firms over Ballard/Drinker/Pepper/Blank. The Akin office is too small to count.


If you're talkin MNAT, prolly. I'd take Ballard/Drinker/Pepper or any other Vault firm over PAC, RLF, YCST in a heartbeat.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Has anybody heard anything from Pepper. I've only heard of one offer posted in this thread a couple weeks ago and I know abotu a couple CB dings from some friends at Penn, but I haven't heard about any offers/dings from students at Temple/Nova/Rutgers. Any clue why they're moving so slow?


2 offers at my non-philly school, know one has already accepted...also know of people still waiting post cb like more than a month

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If you're talkin MNAT, prolly. I'd take Ballard/Drinker/Pepper or any other Vault firm over PAC, RLF, YCST in a heartbeat.

Even in cases where RLF pays more than the Philly firm?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If you're talkin MNAT, prolly. I'd take Ballard/Drinker/Pepper or any other Vault firm over PAC, RLF, YCST in a heartbeat.

Even in cases where RLF pays more than the Philly firm?


An ABL post a while back showed RLF's bonuses and raises are subpar. MNAT pays the best of the DE firms. Vault Philly firms pay well after bonus and lockstep. Plus, they're Vault, and they're more of a "traditional" firm, so you're not pigeonholed into writing advisory opinions on DE LLC law for the rest of your career.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If you're talkin MNAT, prolly. I'd take Ballard/Drinker/Pepper or any other Vault firm over PAC, RLF, YCST in a heartbeat.

Even in cases where RLF pays more than the Philly firm?


An ABL post a while back showed RLF's bonuses and raises are subpar. MNAT pays the best of the DE firms. Vault Philly firms pay well after bonus and lockstep. Plus, they're Vault, and they're more of a "traditional" firm, so you're not pigeonholed into writing advisory opinions on DE LLC law for the rest of your career.

Link to post? That doesn't sound right from what I've heard.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:17 am

This is a really pointless discussion.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:22 am

MNAT pays better lockstep. (So do the Philly Vault's like Dechert, Morgan, Drinker, Ballard, Cozen, etc. etc.) --LinkRemoved--

Also, that post doesn't say that the non-MNAT firm seems to have gotten rid of lockstep bonuses. They're discretionary now, starting only after two years, according to the NALP form.

It's just not for me. I'd rather take a Philly Vault. Just my humble opinion.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:This is a really pointless discussion.


Agreed. You should just be happy you have an offer. Take the best one you got.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:41 pm

Can anyone with RLF or MNAT offers say how long the time was between cb and offer and on what day of the week they received their offer?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:07 pm

anybody have any idea where i can find the lockstep scales for the philly firms? Particularly morgan, pepper, cozen and blank?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:14 pm

Mr. Grella: Let's specifically talk first how your lawyer recruitment has changed over the years. I found it interesting to hear that firms in Delaware offer greater salaries today than in larger Philadelphia firms. How and why has this come about, and whom do you compete with in your recruitment efforts?

Mr. Levine: I'm the one who told you that I have a son who works for a national Philadelphia firm that makes less than our starting associates. The reason is that we really do compete, with each other, with New York, with Washington, and I guess with the whole world. Most of the associates or summers that haven come with us have either gone to Washington or New York. That's a difference. Thirty years ago we competed with Philadelphia.

Mr. Wade: It's a relatively recent phenomenon. It's only in the last 10 or 12 years that we did catch up with Philly and now I think Philly has been lowering its salaries a little bit. We are competeing with the same people with New York. We want the top of the class from the good schools and we're doing that. And we tell people our practice is a national practice as opposed to a regional practice like you find in Philadelphia.


http://www.mwbavl.com/pdf/Delaware%20La ... dtable.pdf

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:25 pm

Here is the difference between Delaware and Philadelphia: someone who has options might go to Delaware because they want to do patent lit or chancery or bankruptcy, even over New York or Washington, D.C. But there is no reason to go to Philadelphia unless you have no other options or you're tied to the area for family reasons. There's no unique work you can't get elsewhere, no national specialty, just regional work in an unprestigious dying region.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If you're talkin MNAT, prolly. I'd take Ballard/Drinker/Pepper or any other Vault firm over PAC, RLF, YCST in a heartbeat.

Even in cases where RLF pays more than the Philly firm?


An ABL post a while back showed RLF's bonuses and raises are subpar. MNAT pays the best of the DE firms. Vault Philly firms pay well after bonus and lockstep. Plus, they're Vault, and they're more of a "traditional" firm, so you're not pigeonholed into writing advisory opinions on DE LLC law for the rest of your career.


DE is better than Philly for corporate and bankruptcy. You are co-counsel with NY firms on some of the biggest cases, and actually do NY cases while living in DE and benefiting from the low cost of living. I also wouldn't rely on an ABL post from "a while back," depending on how long back you're referring to because DE was relatively insulated from everything that happened in the economy from what I've heard while Philly wasn't. This is because a lot of the biggest firms in DE mostly do corporate and bankruptcy and when one gets slow the other gets busy.

I'd also recommend against placing so much weight on going to a firm with lockstep raises. It's better to focus on the culture and people because if you aren't happy there, you may not stay long enough to get a lockstep raise. And, even if you do, you probably won't enjoy your life very much.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:45 pm

DE firm recruiters seem to have invaded this thread so here is a PSA...when trying to pick a firm, focus first on fit. MNAT is a great DE firm. Philly has great firms too. It is pretty crazy to call Philly firms "regional." Just bat shit crazy. NBC Universal's merger with Comcast was handled by a Philly firm. Pepper does a lot Glaxo Smith Kline's most important litigation. Ballard is a national distressed real estate powerhouse. Morgan is not a "regional" firm--that's just a crazy statement.

DE is local counsel specializing in DE law. That means mainly NYC/Philly/some D.C. firms get advisory opinions from DE firms. These advisory opinions are legal requirements to do deals involving DE entities. Major market firms also have DE firms read/evaluate briefs they write because the DE bar requires DE local counsel to litigate in the Chancery court. If these are your things, and the firm is a fit, go for it. DE also does some bankruptcy work, but at cheaper rates than the NYC bankruptcy shops--usually about 350/hour-ish for partners and 150ish an hour for associates. NYC bankruptcy shops are more in the 1000 an hour range for partners.

As far as pay, by and large, Philly beats DE in the long run. A lot of Philly starts at the same market as DE, and with the exception of MNAT (unless you're talking the likes of Morgan/Dechert), Philly firms lockstep and bonus better. But not all that much better--focus on fit instead.

Also, cost of living is not credited. No one wants to live in Wilmington. You'll be living in Philly anyway, paying Philly's higher rents and DE's higher income tax--so, again--choose based on fit, not cost of living.

User avatar
Nelson
Posts: 2061
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Nelson » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:39 am

Anonymous User wrote: There's no unique work you can't get elsewhere, no national specialty, just regional work in an unprestigious dying region.
LOL. Or you could have the buying power equivalent of "NYC to 190", a bigger apartment, and the opportunity to see your SO before 11 PM on weeknights.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:As far as pay, by and large, Philly beats DE in the long run. A lot of Philly starts at the same market as DE, and with the exception of MNAT (unless you're talking the likes of Morgan/Dechert), Philly firms lockstep and bonus better. But not all that much better--focus on fit instead.

Also, cost of living is not credited. No one wants to live in Wilmington. You'll be living in Philly anyway, paying Philly's higher rents and DE's higher income tax--so, again--choose based on fit, not cost of living.


I was relatively on board until this. Only Duane Morris, Morgan & Dechert (Philadelphia offices) start at 145k, MNAT/RLF/PAC/YCST all start at 145k. I would be willing to bet that associate lock step raises are pretty similar as well.

The cost of loving is credited, you are simply asserting that no one wants to take advantage of the lower CoL by living in Wilmington.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:As far as pay, by and large, Philly beats DE in the long run. A lot of Philly starts at the same market as DE, and with the exception of MNAT (unless you're talking the likes of Morgan/Dechert), Philly firms lockstep and bonus better. But not all that much better--focus on fit instead.

Also, cost of living is not credited. No one wants to live in Wilmington. You'll be living in Philly anyway, paying Philly's higher rents and DE's higher income tax--so, again--choose based on fit, not cost of living.


I was relatively on board until this. Only Duane Morris, Morgan & Dechert (Philadelphia offices) start at 145k, MNAT/RLF/PAC/YCST all start at 145k. I would be willing to bet that associate lock step raises are pretty similar as well.

The cost of loving is credited, you are simply asserting that no one wants to take advantage of the lower CoL by living in Wilmington.


They're not, except at MNAT. And the Philly firms that don't start at 145 usually start at 140 or close to it and even out with lockstep and bonuses, in general. And Pennsylvania has drastically lower income tax. But like I said, small difference--focus on fit.

Have you seen Wilmington? Philly is about 30 minutes by train. The urge to live in Philly is great. The social cost of living in Wilmington is great. And the DE income taxes are high--you always have to pay those and it bumps your comp down. Most of the people I know in DE are living in Philly.

I think we have general agreement, however. Focus on fit, not pre-tax cost of living.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:06 am

Also, if you're going to live in a nice place in Wilmington, then you won't see any lower COL than you'd get from living in Philly. Wilmington's COL appears so low on the surface because it accounts for all the poverty stricken projects as well, which you won't be living in if you work for the big 4/Skadden.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Philly OCI 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:DE is local counsel specializing in DE law. That means mainly NYC/Philly/some D.C. firms get advisory opinions from DE firms. These advisory opinions are legal requirements to do deals involving DE entities. Major market firms also have DE firms read/evaluate briefs they write because the DE bar requires DE local counsel to litigate in the Chancery court. If these are your things, and the firm is a fit, go for it. DE also does some bankruptcy work, but at cheaper rates than the NYC bankruptcy shops--usually about 350/hour-ish for partners and 150ish an hour for associates. NYC bankruptcy shops are more in the 1000 an hour range for partners.

None of this is accurate. But especially not the bankruptcy rates. Partners charge 700+ and associates get billed at 300-450+. But I'll concede NY partners are more willing to break that old $1k ceiling these days.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.