2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone elaborate on HayBoo Dallas' corporate group? I had not heard anything about associates leaving. Are you hearing anything about more leaving?


Dunno if more are leaving, but associates have left to Gibson Dunn and Akin Gump.

From what Dallas Associates have told me, best corporate in Dallas right now is VE, Gibson, JD, and Weil.


I don't know how Gibson Dunn has one of the best corporate groups in Dallas when their NALP form says their corporate group is 7 attorneys total. Ask your Dallas associate friends why they think Gibson Dunn has one of the elite corporate groups in town. Not attempting to be confrontational, I just don't understand it.


They pulled the rainmaking VE M&A partners. Little apparently brings in a ton of business.

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:31 pm

Complete truth. Gibson rules the Dallas corporate market at the moment.

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Complete truth. Gibson rules the Dallas corporate market at the moment.


I think that's quite an exaggeration. Gibson has some top notch lawyers and does some very sophisticated work, but it does not "rule" the Dallas corporate market. I would put it in the top tier, though.

In my opinion, the top corporate work in Dallas is at V&E, Jones Day, Akin Gump, Weil and Gibson Dunn. Right behind that tier, I would put Haynes and Boone and Thompson & Knight (and maybe Fulbright and Baker Botts).

V&E still has great work because of the name (despite all the partner defections to Gibson Dunn), but their Corporate group is pretty stuffy and they are infamous for stringing people along and telling them they'll make partner and then pushing them out in their 8th/9th year.

Jones Day has great work and one of the largest groups in town, but their Capital Markets group is notorious for having some real a**holes and people always seem to be leaving (you'd be shocked how fast they cycle through people there). M&A is supposed to be better.

Akin Gump has good work, but until the arrival of the 6 Haynes and Boone people, it was mostly focused on Capital Markets. The HB group brings some needed M&A experience. Culturally, the AG Corporate group is known to be pretty miserable (not that they're mean, just miserably dull) with little interaction between partners and associates, but the HB group is apparently changing that.

Weil has good work, but there's literally no shot at making partner, and they don't seem to be that busy (hence the layoffs).

Gibson Dunn I've discussed above - great work, mostly friendly people, but no chance at making partner and the hours are notoriously high.

If you want to make partner, your best bets are V&E and AG in this group (though they're still low). If you want to go in house, any of these firms will look great on your resume and provide you with the necessary experience.

As for HB and TK, they both have much better partnership chances and plenty of work, but the work is definitely less sophisticated. TK's group is smaller, but HB's group is shrinking. HB also lost about half of their M&A team and the head of the section (who was a Capital Markets guy).

ETA: BB and Fulbright both have good national reputations, but their Dallas Corporate practices are small and not that busy. You almost never see their names come up when doing deals or looking at League Tables. Even BB's Houston office seems to be losing its reputation as a top transactional firm.

If anyone wants more info, let me know via reply post and I can PM you.

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:50 pm

Does anyone else find Locke Lord's inflexible two days for callbacks annoying? I already had callbacks scheduled for those two days before they ever told us about it.

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:54 pm

Do we know if anyone has heard from BB post-brunch?

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby BigLawer » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Complete truth. Gibson rules the Dallas corporate market at the moment.


I think that's quite an exaggeration. Gibson has some top notch lawyers and does some very sophisticated work, but it does not "rule" the Dallas corporate market. I would put it in the top tier, though.

In my opinion, the top corporate work in Dallas is at V&E, Jones Day, Akin Gump, Weil and Gibson Dunn. Right behind that tier, I would put Haynes and Boone and Thompson & Knight (and maybe Fulbright and Baker Botts).

V&E still has great work because of the name (despite all the partner defections to Gibson Dunn), but their Corporate group is pretty stuffy and they are infamous for stringing people along and telling them they'll make partner and then pushing them out in their 8th/9th year.

Jones Day has great work and one of the largest groups in town, but their Capital Markets group is notorious for having some real a**holes and people always seem to be leaving (you'd be shocked how fast they cycle through people there). M&A is supposed to be better.

Akin Gump has good work, but until the arrival of the 6 Haynes and Boone people, it was mostly focused on Capital Markets. The HB group brings some needed M&A experience. Culturally, the AG Corporate group is known to be pretty miserable (not that they're mean, just miserably dull) with little interaction between partners and associates, but the HB group is apparently changing that.

Weil has good work, but there's literally no shot at making partner, and they don't seem to be that busy (hence the layoffs).

Gibson Dunn I've discussed above - great work, mostly friendly people, but no chance at making partner and the hours are notoriously high.

If you want to make partner, your best bets are V&E and AG in this group (though they're still low). If you want to go in house, any of these firms will look great on your resume and provide you with the necessary experience.

As for HB and TK, they both have much better partnership chances and plenty of work, but the work is definitely less sophisticated. TK's group is smaller, but HB's group is shrinking. HB also lost about half of their M&A team and the head of the section (who was a Capital Markets guy).

ETA: BB and Fulbright both have good national reputations, but their Dallas Corporate practices are small and not that busy. You almost never see their names come up when doing deals or looking at League Tables. Even BB's Houston office seems to be losing its reputation as a top transactional firm.

If anyone wants more info, let me know via reply post and I can PM you.



I would appreciate a PM. Also, any knowledge on the Houston market?

BigLawer
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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby BigLawer » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:25 pm

I have a question for everyone. If you wanted corporate work and had offer at the big 3 in Houston and Latham, as well as Gibson and HB in Dallas, and you were going to only base your decision on career prospects (don't take into account location), where would you go?

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:38 pm

BigLawer wrote:I have a question for everyone. If you wanted corporate work and had offer at the big 3 in Houston and Latham, as well as Gibson and HB in Dallas, and you were going to only base your decision on career prospects (don't take into account location), where would you go?


I would say V&E Houston - no worse partnership chances than anywhere else combined with top level work and awesome exit ops. Would put LW right behind bc of slightly worse partnership chances and less outgoing culture.

I would then put Bracewell and AK Houston above any of your other options. Then GDC Dallas. Then HB Dallas. Then FJ Houston. And BB Houston last - trust me, that place is awful.

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
BigLawer wrote:I have a question for everyone. If you wanted corporate work and had offer at the big 3 in Houston and Latham, as well as Gibson and HB in Dallas, and you were going to only base your decision on career prospects (don't take into account location), where would you go?


I would say V&E Houston - no worse partnership chances than anywhere else combined with top level work and awesome exit ops. Would put LW right behind bc of slightly worse partnership chances and less outgoing culture.

I would then put Bracewell and AK Houston above any of your other options. Then GDC Dallas. Then HB Dallas. Then FJ Houston. And BB Houston last - trust me, that place is awful.


BB is band one in corporate work in Texas. Bracewell, AK, GDC, HB, FJ are not....

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
BigLawer wrote:I have a question for everyone. If you wanted corporate work and had offer at the big 3 in Houston and Latham, as well as Gibson and HB in Dallas, and you were going to only base your decision on career prospects (don't take into account location), where would you go?


I would say V&E Houston - no worse partnership chances than anywhere else combined with top level work and awesome exit ops. Would put LW right behind bc of slightly worse partnership chances and less outgoing culture.

I would then put Bracewell and AK Houston above any of your other options. Then GDC Dallas. Then HB Dallas. Then FJ Houston. And BB Houston last - trust me, that place is awful.


BB is band one in corporate work in Texas. Bracewell, AK, GDC, HB, FJ are not....


That is largely due to quantity over quality. Chambers is probably the best ranking site, but it has a bias towards the larger groups (which isn't unreasonable to consider if you're choosing firms - smaller groups can pick up and leave whereas larger groups have more established presences and are less likely to go somewhere). As for BB's rankings, a better metric is the league tables (doing some adjustment for the size of the respective group). On this front, BB really fails. V&E is always ahead of it, and firms like LW, Bracewell, Akin and AK often come in ahead despite smaller (sometimes much smaller) corporate groups. BB's corporate group is definitely better than Fulbright's, but my reasons for ranking it last are partly cultural and not solely based on work quality.

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:00 pm

Just got a callback from Akin Gump DC

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:19 pm

Any UT students hear from K&L Gates today?

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:00 pm

Anybody from SMU heard back from BG or JD Dallas?

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:08 pm

Has anyone heard, beyond brunch, about CBs at BB-Dallas? A friend that went to brunch with BB-Austin mentioned getting a call today to schedule the CB but everything seems quiet on the BB-Dallas front.

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:24 pm

There's been at least one callback interview notice given by BB Dallas this last Thursday. SMU 2L.

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:There's been at least one callback interview notice given by BB Dallas this last Thursday. SMU 2L.


I should edit to say, anyone from UT? My impression is that if you were invited to brunch after your UT OCI screener you will be getting a CB, they just haven't gotten around to calling to set them up yet.

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:27 pm

BB Houston just called some ppl.

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emkay625
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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby emkay625 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:50 pm

It's a ding so I don't feel the need to use anon, but ding from Gibbs and Bruns about 40 minutes ago. Bummed because only ding so far and they were my first choice by far. It was a very polite ding though - email personalized with specific things about my interview. Everyone there seemed so nice when I met them, best of luck to anyone who has a callback there. It seems like an amazing place to work.

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby AFS » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:22 pm

emkay625 wrote:It's a ding so I don't feel the need to use anon, but ding from Gibbs and Bruns about 40 minutes ago. Bummed because only ding so far and they were my first choice by far. It was a very polite ding though - email personalized with specific things about my interview. Everyone there seemed so nice when I met them, best of luck to anyone who has a callback there. It seems like an amazing place to work.


Sorry about the ding. Hopefully you find somewhere else that's a good fit for you.

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:14 am

has sidley austin (houston) given callbacks yet?

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:has sidley austin (houston) given callbacks yet?


Yes.

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:12 am

Jones Day CB

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:44 am

emkay625 wrote:It's a ding so I don't feel the need to use anon, but ding from Gibbs and Bruns about 40 minutes ago. Bummed because only ding so far and they were my first choice by far. It was a very polite ding though - email personalized with specific things about my interview. Everyone there seemed so nice when I met them, best of luck to anyone who has a callback there. It seems like an amazing place to work.


I'm sorry to hear about the ding, but as a practicing mid level in Dallas, I can assure you that there are other good firms to work at in Dallas. I would encourage everyone here not to get so specific about their top choices - you'll see once you start practicing that the firms are way more alike than you'll realize and nowhere is perfect. Also, if you're a strong candidate, you'll be bombarded with lateral opportunities.

And, finally, with respect to GDC, it has some fantastic work and some very smart people, but its also kind of a sweatshop and I'm not sure they've made a single partner there in the last decade (other than lateral partners) - you could very well be better off somewhere else.

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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:Jones Day CB


Dallas or Houston?

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emkay625
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Re: 2013 Texas OCI (+all Texas firms)

Postby emkay625 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:
emkay625 wrote:It's a ding so I don't feel the need to use anon, but ding from Gibbs and Bruns about 40 minutes ago. Bummed because only ding so far and they were my first choice by far. It was a very polite ding though - email personalized with specific things about my interview. Everyone there seemed so nice when I met them, best of luck to anyone who has a callback there. It seems like an amazing place to work.


I'm sorry to hear about the ding, but as a practicing mid level in Dallas, I can assure you that there are other good firms to work at in Dallas. I would encourage everyone here not to get so specific about their top choices - you'll see once you start practicing that the firms are way more alike than you'll realize and nowhere is perfect. Also, if you're a strong candidate, you'll be bombarded with lateral opportunities.

And, finally, with respect to GDC, it has some fantastic work and some very smart people, but its also kind of a sweatshop and I'm not sure they've made a single partner there in the last decade (other than lateral partners) - you could very well be better off somewhere else.


I think you're talking about Gibson Dunn, not Gibbs and Bruns.




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